thats the issue with canon guys, its always in the way of "cool", thus why people like Bethesda or the heads of the new Star Trek have to get rid of it as fast as possible!
Aliens Invade Fallout 3
- Thread starter DoktorVivi
- Start date
mountaingoat said:But the new fans praised the movie, as usual. Seen any similarities there ?
That in every genre there are people who take pop fiction way too seriosly?
As somebody who reads comics I'm glad that writers are finally starting to ignore those 60+ years of continuity in order to write entertaining stories. Hell, I recently did some online test where I guessed more than 90 "secret identities" of chraracters out of 100 but I'm the last guy who will shed tears if spider-man is single again or if a costume gets changed. It does not make me "smart" to know that a character (Strife) is a clone of the kid (Cable) of a mother (Madelyne Pryor) who is a clone of another mutant (Jean Gray) and a dad (Cyclops) who is the kid of a space pirate (Corsair). Changing this would not dumb down the comic, it would make it less dumb in my opinion. Still I tend to be a minority when it comes to my views of continuity and other nerd sports, which is why I mostly stick to self contained series these days like stuff from Vertigo, Image and Marvel Max and stand alone collections like Fun Home (which everyone should read).
Still what does break my heart is to know that more people know Klingon than Yoreme (la lengua) or most other native languages.
I'm a trekkie (or used to be) and I like the new movie. It was certainly better than the last few TNG movies.
Time travel in Star Trek has always been full of contradictions. Pretty much every time travel episode followed a different theory. Including, yes, time travel creating alternate universes, like in this movie.
And unlike Bethesda, they don't pretend that it's the same universe.
Danilh said:
Yeah, but I'm not talking about continuity making life difficult for writers, I'm talking about people having these painful, vitriolic reactions to deviations from Canon and how I consider myself fortunate to be at least partially immune, since people to whom this is a big deal make it sound like being a fan of their caliber is a miserable lose/lose experience of chasing ever more distant childhood memories while being constantly assaulted in the present by evil corporations on a mission to destroy their happier corporate sponsored memories. Take for instance transformer fans saying that the movie raped their childhood... no matter how much they are exagerating to get attention, it still sounds like they are having a miserable, self inflicted experience.
fedaykin said:
Hence me listing what I read now, mostly vertigo, Max, Image and Stand alone collections like Fun Home. But as an example of dropping continuity check out Next Wave... old characters, crazy new story.
I usualy dont have so much issues with if parts get changed. But seriously F3 has not much in common with either F1 or F2 when it comes to canon or the general direction.
If they would have changed some small bits I would not complain, its a game afterall. but serouisly what they did with the Enclave (which should have ended with F2 anyway) or the "new" Brotherhood is not a simple small change anymore. Its pretty contrarily to the Fallout and its setting.
So people complaining about F3 raping the canon in a absurd way is absolutely justified in my eyes.
If they would have changed some small bits I would not complain, its a game afterall. but serouisly what they did with the Enclave (which should have ended with F2 anyway) or the "new" Brotherhood is not a simple small change anymore. Its pretty contrarily to the Fallout and its setting.
So people complaining about F3 raping the canon in a absurd way is absolutely justified in my eyes.
mountaingoat
First time out of the vault
Ausir said:
Agreed, for I don’t talk on absolutes here, but the movie was rendered unpleasant/unentertaining - to me at least - by the so many times broken suspend of disbelief, at critical points.
In my opinion, the writers should have tried for more plausible physics and the elimination of plot-holes, instead of putting more emphasis on action.
The acting by lead characters was good and the CGI was top notch though.
Crni Vuk said:
And that is an example of my argument... changes to cannon = rape, holocaust or whatever sounds awful. I'm not directly talking about Fallout, but a lot of the fans here represent what I consider people who have disfunctional relationships with entertainment products.
fedaykin said:
I think you and I are talking about different people, since displeased sounds like somebody saying "meh, that sucked, lets see what is on tv" as opposed to the much more extreme examples I'm stating, the grown man crying over an intellectual property change, week after week, until something that upsets him more comes along.
Trithne
Still Mildly Glowing
Everyone needs a hobby.
Well I just see it that way. If it works in one direction it has to work in the other as well.lugaru said:
If its alright to call it the most imershun, best perfect awezum rockzorrr product and game of aaahl life and see the Bethesda developers as gods that can do no wrong then it should be alright to mention a rape of canon (by the way I never seen one mention a holocaust in relation with Fallout 3 and Bethesda though
)Of course its exagerated and dramatised by the words used in some form. But as long its not a insult to a individual (we are talking about a product and abstract words like "canon") I dont see any issue with using such words to make a point. Particularly when its somewhat true.
I dont know who has a sick relationship with the media or what ever. But I see it as understandable if people get a bit pissed about the way gaming media and press works and not only cause "some" smaller gaming sites called bad things about the NMA community in general which also would even include you (and me and others of course) as like NMA would be some big united mass (which is not). How to not get angry about the biased way most of those reviews and game ratings are done?. Maybe it are entertaiment products for some, just as like movies adn books are, but for some, the fans namely, it has a meaning. And why should it not. Many things have a meaning for people. Only cause some see it as games doesnt mean it can not be important, it doesnt mean people dont have usual lifes or are geeks with eyglasses as thick like the base of a coca cola bottle. Everyone has something he really loves to fight (and get angry) for. Thats just human.
lugaru said:
It's an forum-discussion on the interwebs, here you can't expect everyone to behave mature about voicing their dislikes about the treatment of their favorite gameseries, all the time.
I wouldn't have that much of a problem with deviations from canon (I played and enjoyed the old Fallouts but am by no means an expert on fallout-canon), if they would make any sense.
Rarely anything in FO3 is believable. Those "villages" that contain only a handful of people and no trace of how they sustain themselves are just one example.
The combat-AI as well as general behavior is just horrible.
The much touted "immersion" was one of the promises they failed the most at, imo.
[/rant]
As for the original post/news: While the swamp theme generally sounds interesting, I somehow doubt Beth can pull off anything decent with it. We'll probably see some poor attempt at horror-comedy.
The mothership thing sound just stupid...really stupid. Not much more I can add to that.
I am no trekkie, but I have seen some of the old movies and generally enjoyed the show. Haven't seen the new movie yet but plan to do so and will hopefully enjoy it. Can't really say that I care for startrek canon as long as I can enjoy the movie ( wich includes it not insulting my intelligence )
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
American comics are retarded for the very reason that they on infinitely ongoing but they do alternate universe comics all of the time. I see no reason to begrudge fans for not wanting the writers to pull stupid stunts which nullifies 60+ years of continuity because it's a stupid stunt. Star Trek, on the other hand, is a fairly pointless universe to reboot and it shows a complete lack of creativity that not only did they reboot the series, they decided to use the original characters as a base and radically change them all.lugaru said:
It was a better movie but it was a stupid and fun action adventure movie rather than a good StarTrek film. I'm not a super Trekkie so I don't really mind them making these films too much as long as they don't decide that this is now the main universe but I really do hope that they work on having decent writing on the next one. The movie just goes completely ridiculous periodically and drops into the realm of action movie stupid.Ausir said:
Because there are so many of those folks around with the Fallout franchise. You're greatly exaggerating how people react to the changes in Fallout 3, many are displeased, some even angry, but I've yet to hear of anyone crying over it. Besides which, it's a sequel so it's expected to fit into the universe. It would be like if someone bought the license to the LotR books and made a sequel to them in which it was revealed that all of the powerful beings were really aliens, changed the style to be more oriental, and made orcs into zombies created by Sauron. It's perfectly reasonable to be dissatisfied with massive changes to a fiction's continuity and it's reasonable for the level of dissatisfaction to increase as the size and importance of the change increases. In the case of Fallout 3, there was very little to be gained from actually setting it in the Fallout universe, in fact they changed so much that they only had a handful of things left which, with minor tweaks, would have made the game clearly not a Fallout game. At the very least they could have pulled what the new StarTrek movie did and set it in a different universe in order to explain their massive changes.lugaru said:
Ultimately I think that if Fallout 3 would have been well written then you would have something of a point but reaction to it would also be different. People would still point out it's many breaches in canon and many would still say that it wasn't a Fallout game but they wouldn't besmirch the game's writing quality and would have more respect for it.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Bethesda are their own biggest fans.
They design games they enjoy.
Fallout 3 is proof that Bethesda's greatest strength is in pleasuring themselves.
They design games they enjoy.
Fallout 3 is proof that Bethesda's greatest strength is in pleasuring themselves.