Note that calling people "trolls" in the headline of your "open letter" isn't the most productive way of going about things. If you genuinely want to de-escalate things, best not to do it that way.
An Open Letter to Bethesda Fans
- Thread starter RetroAmerica
- Start date
ComeAndBlowMyMind
First time out of the vault
i disagree, what they've done with perks would've been great!
but they messed it up by allowing you to buff up your base stats after selected, granted you can ignore that, if not it'd make way for very specialized Character build, the voiced pro-tag is a problem for RP and I'll mod him out and I'm also sure that someone will mod the dialogue system.
basically i think Fallout 4 will be "mod it a bit and it'll be a masterpiece"
Skyrim can be a masterpiece because of mods so can this.
but they messed it up by allowing you to buff up your base stats after selected, granted you can ignore that, if not it'd make way for very specialized Character build, the voiced pro-tag is a problem for RP and I'll mod him out and I'm also sure that someone will mod the dialogue system.
basically i think Fallout 4 will be "mod it a bit and it'll be a masterpiece"
Skyrim can be a masterpiece because of mods so can this.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
How are perks only good? They're boring percentage increases that advance in a linear manner. Being able to kill someone 10% better does not make a varied character.
ComeAndBlowMyMind
First time out of the vault
I know this, However i feel this system would've allowed for more diverse character builds.
However Bethesda fucked it up and so now it's useless. as you can upgrade your starting stats.
What i meant by varied character is that It Could've made it to where when you pick your stats in the start You must stay with them
throughout the game This could've made what you do with your Strength or whatever Actually matter It would've been grand
However bethesda ruined it, By allowing you to just willy nilly upgrade your starting stats.
However Bethesda fucked it up and so now it's useless. as you can upgrade your starting stats.
What i meant by varied character is that It Could've made it to where when you pick your stats in the start You must stay with them
throughout the game This could've made what you do with your Strength or whatever Actually matter It would've been grand
However bethesda ruined it, By allowing you to just willy nilly upgrade your starting stats.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Alas, this seems fundamentally alien to them. This would (by definition) mean that you "pick your stats in the start and you must stay with them".
Think of the Brawndo argument, and it might start to become clear.
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But then shouldn't the same hold true with people trying to deal with the rabid talking of the Bethesda fans?
I would bet that a lot of them, or a good amount, don't think in terms like that, that they're doing it for some sort of reward or recognition from the developer or publisher or whoever else was involved. I know that whenever I talk/post about how I like a game, those thoughts never cross my mind. If I'm posting about how I like it it's because I genuinely like it or the parts of it that I point out. I would bet that the same is true for a lot of people, though I won't discount that there are people out there who do stuff just for some recognition.
Whenever you tell people about a game you like, or about how much you like a game, do those kind of thoughts ever cross your mind? Thoughts about doing it for some kind of recognition from the developers/publishers or about how your giving them free advertising?
Are the people who really like, and talk about how they like, Fallout 1/2 doing it for some recognition, or are they doing it because they like the game?
(Though I guess it is possible for anybody to be doing any mix of this.)
And I don't really have anything for this section other than, yeah, innovation is sometimes bad and sometimes good.
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Apart from inventing a whole reputation system for New Vegas, designing the maps, crafting character models etc. Obsidian had to do the hardest part of making a good game which is to write a compelling story with interesting dialogue and characters. In my opinion which is based on no experience in game design whatsoever, this seems to be the hardest part and they more or less nailed it. Something Bethesda consistently fails to do.
Also regarding your point that there is not enough data to fear for Fallout 4 fate when we all have seen Fallout 3 is just nuts. May I remind you of the pinnacles of writing and quest design this game offered.
I am writing a Wasteland survival guide, please run into a minefield and tell me how it feels. I remember sitting spechless for minutes after that request, blankly staring at the monitor, refusing to believe that anyone anywhere could stomach this much stupidity, without pondering sui- or genocide.
Of course shortly after I discovered some Vampires and from then on I only remember shooting anything that was not considered essential(aka to stupid to die), then there were some kind of democratic robot, Liam Neeson and then i finally got the option to kill myself and be done with it. Actually this was most immersive as my character and I yearned for the sweet embrace of death after swimming through the sea of stupidity that was Fallout 3.
Also regarding your point that there is not enough data to fear for Fallout 4 fate when we all have seen Fallout 3 is just nuts. May I remind you of the pinnacles of writing and quest design this game offered.
I am writing a Wasteland survival guide, please run into a minefield and tell me how it feels. I remember sitting spechless for minutes after that request, blankly staring at the monitor, refusing to believe that anyone anywhere could stomach this much stupidity, without pondering sui- or genocide.
Of course shortly after I discovered some Vampires and from then on I only remember shooting anything that was not considered essential(aka to stupid to die), then there were some kind of democratic robot, Liam Neeson and then i finally got the option to kill myself and be done with it. Actually this was most immersive as my character and I yearned for the sweet embrace of death after swimming through the sea of stupidity that was Fallout 3.
I've played Skyrim I even liked it somewhat but it is as far from being a masterpiece as a dog is from being a cat. Surely you can surgically alter the cat to resemble a dog, but in the end it will still purr and not bark. Meaning play dress up with the software as long as you wan't, the story and stupid dialogs aren't going anywhere.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
I think there is a reason for that (that being that it's wholly intentional).
They have enough money to hire the best; they could hire anyone they needed to seed the game with a superb and compelling interactive story. Why haven't they done this? Hundred's of millions in profit, and they consistently don't do this. I do think that they are releasing exactly what they intend to release, and that it's done with careful forethought; they are risking too much money not to.
One must ask themselves this: What do you get when you combine a football broadcast, a soap opera, a funniest home-video show, and the Price is Right? median audience; you get Survivor.
Bethesda's games target the median audience; they won't risk the plot of Shogun in any of their titles.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
They aim for all crowds yet fail in that regard, though their large amount of fans is ridiculous.
Ben Soto
Professional Salt Shaker
It's because, for all their faults, BethSoft games are good. They're not good Fallout games, or even good RPGs, and Fallout 3 is a little hooey when it comes to almost everything, but everything they've done before or after F3 has been pretty damn good because they're actually sorta-kinda-maybe action-adventure games. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, they're all WAIT A MINUTE.
Morrowind... Oblivion... Skyrim... Holy crap. Bethesda only does good Elder Scrolls games! Shit... Well, at least F4 looks pretty good, and it's basically Skyrim, but with guns and a better leveling system.
Morrowind... Oblivion... Skyrim... Holy crap. Bethesda only does good Elder Scrolls games! Shit... Well, at least F4 looks pretty good, and it's basically Skyrim, but with guns and a better leveling system.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Oblivion and Skyrim were pretty bad...
TheRippaMan
First time out of the vault
I thought they were ok, but TES as a whole has had a slew of problems from the start -- bad writing, poor character development, lack of choices and consequences, ect. While I liked Morrowind the most, there has been a constant streamlining of features.
It's interesting to see the difference in the community from back in 02 to today. Back then, we were asking for the things I've listed above with even deeper RPG elements. Today, the fans are content and defend Bethesda to the point where criticism is a dirty word. To be fair, there has been some criticism of the dialog in Fallout 4, but as a whole, the fans nowadays tend to excuse a lot of their poorer design choices.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Agreed. However for me the TES series wasn't that good. The only good one due to writing was Morrowind, but even then the gameplay was usually bad.
Morrowind was fucking amazing. Oblivion was alright, the Dark Brotherhood questline in that game is the best thing Bethesda has done in the past 13 years.
Minute
Weathered, but good-heart
I can agree that on the Bethesda preferred fallout side, the fanatics exist. But so do they exist for the black isle games. I'm a middle ground guy, I love the entire series outside of the Xbox game... But if I had to give props to both sides then Bethesda would get the gameplay (not role playing, but gun play and exploration, quest taking, etc) while Black Isle/obsidian would get the props in writing. I actually like combat and exploration in fallout 3, new Vegas, and 4, with four having perfected it. But I feel the dialogue and main quest needs work, along with some more variety and the ability to roleplay evil or so.
I love the writing in fallout 1, 2, and tactics. The characters are quite enjoyable to interact with and the npcs in towns feel like they are fully realized as actual characters. But the isometric gameplay is such a slog, it isn't fun and I'm not saying this because it's turned based. I love final fantasy, dragon quest, fire emblem, etc. It's just its annoying to have splash damage kill off a companion when I wasn't even trying to aim their way. Alongside that, equipment could've been better balanced but all the games have this issue.
I am hoping that, with the witcher 3 providing the example, Bethesda will follow suit and perhaps even hire some of the old fallout writers to help them further polish the story in future fallout games. If some of you want to give up or not give Bethesda a chance, that is your right. But I've enjoyed their games despite the writing and role playing flaws, though to be fair certain quests and characters are actually well written like curie and piper, or the quests with a lovecraft themes.
I love the writing in fallout 1, 2, and tactics. The characters are quite enjoyable to interact with and the npcs in towns feel like they are fully realized as actual characters. But the isometric gameplay is such a slog, it isn't fun and I'm not saying this because it's turned based. I love final fantasy, dragon quest, fire emblem, etc. It's just its annoying to have splash damage kill off a companion when I wasn't even trying to aim their way. Alongside that, equipment could've been better balanced but all the games have this issue.
I am hoping that, with the witcher 3 providing the example, Bethesda will follow suit and perhaps even hire some of the old fallout writers to help them further polish the story in future fallout games. If some of you want to give up or not give Bethesda a chance, that is your right. But I've enjoyed their games despite the writing and role playing flaws, though to be fair certain quests and characters are actually well written like curie and piper, or the quests with a lovecraft themes.
I didn't mind f3 that much, beat it twice with the same mindset I have when I play the GTA games, rly liked f1/f2/ftactics/fnv all gems from my childhood n all that jazz ect, played through each of them(except new vegas which i've beaten like 4 times maybe) countless times.
F4 Bethesda must have been trolling cos holy fuck i haven't been more irked at a game in a long ass time(last game i had high expectations/hopes for on this level was NWN 1) the games dogshit, few of my main gripes are invincible NPC'S/ the whole stats system/ and how there's no weapon condition, the quests suck dick too but i really didn't expect those to be that good. Played it for just under 2 hours and got my money back, god bless steam refund service. Funny thing is even alot of RL friends don't like fallout 4, even one of my nimrod friends from highschool who thought oblivion was the best game of all time thinks F4 is shit so I guess I'm not alone xD
F4 Bethesda must have been trolling cos holy fuck i haven't been more irked at a game in a long ass time(last game i had high expectations/hopes for on this level was NWN 1) the games dogshit, few of my main gripes are invincible NPC'S/ the whole stats system/ and how there's no weapon condition, the quests suck dick too but i really didn't expect those to be that good. Played it for just under 2 hours and got my money back, god bless steam refund service. Funny thing is even alot of RL friends don't like fallout 4, even one of my nimrod friends from highschool who thought oblivion was the best game of all time thinks F4 is shit so I guess I'm not alone xD
Personally, what grinds me the most in these discussions, is when I admit anything, like "I did like some of the [insert]" and the response is "HA! So you DID like - "
Because what... what exactly am I revealing? That it was ALL just a big hoax? That I'm being paid off to pretend I don't like something I'm actually completely in love with? What about the things I go out to claim that I DO like? Do I in reality hate them? Am I some kind of bribed opposite-man?
One time I was accused of not having played FO1 and FO2 as much as I claimed I had - as a flailing swing, and I was just stumped... loss of words, like... Yes... I have? Why...
I'm just a person... of NO significant importance, why would I come up with this elaborate scam, pretending for years on end to like a particular game (while secretly hating it) for 12 years later to pretend to hate the 4th dumbification of it (while secretly loving it)
What kind of utter insanity is that!?!?
And how do you respond to something like that!?
Because what... what exactly am I revealing? That it was ALL just a big hoax? That I'm being paid off to pretend I don't like something I'm actually completely in love with? What about the things I go out to claim that I DO like? Do I in reality hate them? Am I some kind of bribed opposite-man?
One time I was accused of not having played FO1 and FO2 as much as I claimed I had - as a flailing swing, and I was just stumped... loss of words, like... Yes... I have? Why...
I'm just a person... of NO significant importance, why would I come up with this elaborate scam, pretending for years on end to like a particular game (while secretly hating it) for 12 years later to pretend to hate the 4th dumbification of it (while secretly loving it)
What kind of utter insanity is that!?!?
And how do you respond to something like that!?