Asbestos Religion Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Alphadrop, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    How's that work? You get abuse in one city so an entire financial trading union spanning dozens of countries should fail?
    It's hard to call the EU racist when it's made up of countries that only stopped going to war with each other for being French about 65 years ago.

    China and the US are in a symbiotic, or possibly parasitic depending on how cynical you are, relationship. They both rely on each other to much to come to blows. Basically globalisation makes it to expensive to wage war on anyone, no one wins and you don't get your cheap crap anymore.
    Also the second or third biggest holder of debt for the US is England and we're a much easier target. :V
     
  2. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011

    A lot of Europeans I know are like my dorm mates in London. Even the French government is into that whole xenophobia thing (Muslims are EVIL because we do not dress like skanks ) :o . It depresses me to see all those people going down the racism path simply because they do not have a history of immigration, then make us out to be the bad ones and all in some weird conspiracy to kill all white people.
     
  3. Sander

    Sander This ghoul has seen it all
    Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Jul 5, 2003
    Hah, pretending there's no history of immigration in Europe. Biggest myth ever.

    Also I don't know a lot of racist Europeans. Your mileage may vary. Don't take the people you personally met as representative of an entire (diverse) continent.
     
  4. Mettle

    Mettle Still Mildly Glowing

    296
    Nov 9, 2007
    To be fair, muslim women often tend to stand out in public, due to their headwear. And the fact that some cover their faces completely sends a message of distrust to us, atleast over here where I am. The only people that cover their faces are people that have things to hide.

    It does'nt get better when vocal minorities (I hope and assume) complain when policeofficers want to ID "their women", or when they abuse our good nature to cheat in different ways with their covering hoods. (Driving tests or school exams has been recorded)

    Then again, I can sympathize sometimes, especially when the racists start hollering about muslims "polluting our culture" and whatnot that you'd hold on to your culture even harder.

    I don't think this is likely to ever happen, especially not with a government that can't keep a secret about where their president sticks his dick.
     
  5. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    It isn't that we distrust firang, it's just that women who are married should dress modestly (I usually just wear a headscarf, but I'll occasionally go out without anything on my hair, most younger Muslim women will do as I do. Although they're are some traditionalists out there.).

    Oh those guys are the worst. I do not know how in Allah's name we pollute a culture not really welcome in :(. Although I do think it is getting better in the United States in an inverse proportion to the news from Europe my friend Anjali tells me about. I think the worst bit is how they try and get us to assimilate (a lot of us Indians have to become hip hop girl wannabes) into a culture that some of us don't want to.

    Why are you so cynical sahib? :|
     
  6. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011

    Wow really? :shock: Who knew. Thank;s for that out of left field statement.
     
  7. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    It is not only the Muslim Brotherhood, it is the Moderate Muslims as well. The vast majority of Muslims are not terrorist. An alarmingly high number of Muslims are unwilling to speak out against the extremist that pervert their religion.

    I am sure most here are familiar with those old pictures of the Islamic protest in the UK, with Muslims holding signs that say "London your 9/11 is coming" and "Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer". The damage control and banter from Muslim apologist is sickening, they should be speaking out against such things in mass.


    Russia should not worry as much about the NATO missile defense they are harping about. The insurgency on their doorstep is still going strong.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15824831

    Mind you a lot of these types are just thugs, using religion as an excuse. As the article says, they target establishments that serve alcohol and cite religious reasons for the violence, but will not attack if they pay protection money.

    The issue being not everyone understands this, and despite greed being the overall goal, it is easy to recruit brainwashed fanatics from the large Muslim population. A troublesome situation to say the least.
     
  8. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    Yes, because a ton of Islamic organizations do not issue condemning statements after every attack :wall:.


    The best part is is if a Catholic or a Jew did the same thing people wouldn't be all "oh man those moderate Catholics better issue a statement." And why do we have to condemn every attack? I'm American, if a terrorist blew up mayor Bloomberg or whatever I would be upset but I wouldn't go "hey guys, Islam is not this nutcase" because people who were smart would know that already and people who were not would cling to their Islamophobia anyway
     
  9. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    I would hardly call it Islamophobia, more or less a healthy caution towards a religion that is the most used and twisted for justifications of acts of terror in the world. A disturbingly high number of Muslims turn a blind eye to the terrorism and human rights atrocities in Islamic countries.

    Not to say the West does not have its own issues. Just that we have at least progressed past state sanctioned jailings and proposed whippings of teachers for naming a teddy bear after some old dead religious windbag, openly punishing homosexuals, or the countless cases mistreatment of women and lack of rights for them that we wont even get into.

    When I have a bit more time I will find the poll done of Muslim civilians who supported the targeting of Israeli civilians, the numbers were a bit disturbing to say the least. It is on Metal Archives somewhere, I just gotta find it.

    Your Catholic and Jew argument does not hold water. Catholics and Jews do not commit mass terrorist attacks against civilians. Now we will pause for a moment and allow one of the usual's to come in here and start to whine about Israel and all those poor poor Palestinians that keep getting bombed even further in the stone age, but I digress.

    Did a sizable portions of Catholics and Protestants support the terrorist attacks and violence during The Troubles? No idea, I would be interested to see some data on that one, the population outside of Ireland mind you, world wide. Did the Catholic church as a whole denounce such attacks as well as various Protestant sects? Yes they did.

    Is the "most dangerous city in Europe" under siege by Catholics or Jews? No, it is under siege by fanatical Muslims. Fanatical Muslim gangsters, but Muslims all the same.

    Does Boston go up in flames and Irish-Americans riot in the streets when Family guy makes one of many cracks about the Irish being alcoholic wife beaters? No, but a scourge of butthurt Muslims did riot in the streets when someone mocked an old dead idol they hold dear in a cartoon.


    One of the few comforts I have in this is knowing that those critical of Islam are not the minority. People need to be well aware of what they are up against. It is great when Islamic groups speak out against extremism, I truly hope they shout it to he heavens. People need to be reminded that not all Muslims are terrorist. They also need not forget that Islam is perverted by an extremely large group of individuals to justify terror and crimes against humanity.

    There is nothing wrong with education and awareness.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/
     
  10. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    Did? more like still do. My husband is Irish, so are all my in laws. Those dudes see the troubles as the most awesome thing to ever happen. They sing songs about it, they watch movies about it. Hell my grandfather in law was in the IRA and the whole family thinks he is the coolest guy ever.


    And a disturbingly high amount of Jews are okay with the Palestinians getting screwed over, a disturbing amount of Hindus in the old country cheered as my great uncle was murdered. And Islam is way way waaaayyy more decentralized than Catholicism. We have no head Imam and most of them have very widely differing views on the Prophet's (pbuh) teachings



    The west kept the whole world from doing that. The reason why India is only just now becoming a major player is because of the British oppression we had to endure. And yeah sure, all Muslims mistreat women. Good general statement there. Brings me back to when I was murdered by my brother for dating a white guy :roll:

    Do you blame them?!? Granted it is extreme to target civilians and all humanity should just get along but people are getting kicked out of their homes, jailed for nothing, and murdered. Under the circumstances of course people will be angry to an unreasonable degree. If Britain decided to re-institute the Raj I'd be pretty ticked of at jolly old England. Same holds for a lot of Arabs.

    Because they don't matter, they're brown and thus scary :o


    Oh, you mean like those fanatical catholic Italians that made New York the most dangerous city ever? Yeah they totally followed catholic ideals. Pope John Paul the II should have gave em all sainthood.

    Because South Park episodes make it real guys. (speaking of which thank you for the link universal wolf. it's a pretty funny show sometimes if a bit mean)


    Try a really small minority. And people are dumb when it comes to Islam. Some idiot blows himself up for Allah and suddenly I'm a criminal who needs to be ostracized because god damn it Sabirah you worship the same God as we do.

    one more thing:
    I know, I should apologize because some of my fraternal Muslim brothers and sisters are lunatics. I am personally responsible for it by virtue of being Muslim. Makes a lot of sense.


    Oh, that site :roll: Now I know where you got this silliness from.
     
  11. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    Oh I am well aware, One Shot Paddy and various Wolfe Tones tracks are staples of my iPod. It has been glorified and glamorized to a large degree by the media at this point however, no one takes it seriously. Nor do I imagine a large portion of Catholics and Protestants world wide have strong feelings on it. I would like to be proven wrong here though.


    Yeah, and we would all love for said Palestinians to crawl out of the dark ages, recognize Israel, denounce terrorism, and stop hiding behind women and children yet calling foul when there is collateral damage. But hey, clearly I am biased in this one and I do not wish to get off track.



    Not all Muslims mistreat women, but it is a very real problem in Islamic countries. By this same logic you could gather that where Islam becomes the ruling force the same problems could *possibly* occur.

    You know it is funny, right after my first post I checked the BBC app and saw this article.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16011926

    Oh lord no, the end of virginity!!! What ever will they do when they cannot brainwash and keep control over their female populace anymore?

    Heaven forbid all of those things come to pass, it would be the end of life as we know it.

    Mind you, I could find cases of crazies from any religion or group. The issue with Islam is that this type of stuff has state sanctions and support.


    Yeah, I do blame them. I don't think we need a history lesson, and no one in that region is without fault. The contested land was won by Israel in a war of aggression, after which they rofl stomped their neighbors into submission.
    At some point it is time to cut your losses and move on, Israel exist, they can get over it. Not only does it exist, it has the backing of the West and a large enough stockpile of biological,chemical, and nuclear weapons (not to mention a delivery system that can hit anywhere in the Middle East) to completely decimate the entire region if it had to take a final stand.

    Launch rockets into civilian housing? Enjoy those cluster bombs that are going to get dropped on the launch sites. A shame that they have to house munitions among civilians, but that is the nature of the enemy in that region.


    עין תחת עין



    More Islamic apologist talk. As if that even begins to compare to the sheer numbers of Muslims world-wide who still use Islam as an excuse to spread terror.





    Real small minority eh?


    Mind you that was just from a random google I pulled up. There are much better sources that details how many Americans have negative images of Islam. unsurprisingly a vast majority of current service members and Veterans are not completely trusting of Islam as a whole as well.

    This is NOT to say that Veterans and Americans in general hate Muslims, it is to say that they are aware of the threats that Islamic extremism possesses and are critical of particular groups and sects.





    Yeah, "that site". Because a website that compiles and list atrocities and crimes against humanity in the name of Islam is a terrible thing to bring to the public view right?
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    Sab, why do you even argue with Bal-Sagoth ?

    Most here actually decided to simply ignore him ...
     
  13. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    I didn't realize this poor fellow was like this until now


    Now I know to never debate Firang about anything except possibly movies.


    This is what video games do to your sense of reality.


    Also, picture this;

    Wherever you live is handed over to a bunch of Native Americans who oppress and murder everyone who is not Cherokee or whatever on their land. How would you feel?
     
  14. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008

    Video games and sense of reality? Is it my wording you do not like? Because I believe it is very fitting for what happened at the end of the Six Day War, it was a decisieve Israeli victory. The Arab coalition was smashed, humilated, and defeated. I am sure you are well versed on it, so no need to go into detail. It really is quite amazing just re-reading the account of the odds Israel overcame in that conflict.

    A line from a Sabaton song commemorates the occasion nicely.



    I fail to see how the Cherokee analogy holds relevence. You can do a bunch of "what ifs" in history and have endless debates on that. Wars of conquest were fought over Native American lands, and the outcome is what we have now.

    A war of agression was waged against Israel, and despite having a numerically superior and well armed force, Israel crushed them in mere days and flexed it's muscle on the global scene. One of those things where it is better to just accept, because they are not going anywhere.
     
  15. Sabirah

    Sabirah Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    930
    Jul 10, 2011
    Yep. People being butchered by some country is a "roflstomp". Here's a tip yaar, if you want somebody to care about your argument then you should not use dumb internet talk that only 13 year olds use. Especially if you are talking about state sponsored genocide.


    The Cherokee analogy totally holds water nowadays. They are people who lost they're land, and were they to get they're own country they would probably act like a bunch of xenophobic psychos like Israel does on a regular basis

    Also;

    Israel won because the west backed them. And nobody wants Israel gone, they just want Israel to stop murdering innocent people. The nation has no right to exist, but we deal the hands we are dealt.
     
  16. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Jihadwatch? Seriously? That's like a link to Stormfront or something. You realize you want to actually build up credibility? And the ''WE SUPPORT ISRAEL!'' avatar... It's your right, but don't claim not to have a huge bias afterwards.

    Oh, and while we could endlessly debate about which religious groups has the least assholes, the situation, how I see it, is a State backed up by the West holding an Arab country hostage, which said Arab country and it's neightboors are quite rightfully pissed off at. There's no good or bad here, just a complete and utter mess that can't end well, if it ever ends at all. The massive amounts of hypocrisy displayed by both sides (Israel even more, lately, when Palestine attempted to become a sovereign State) really doesn't help.
     
  17. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008

    Care about my argument? I sincerely do not care if you sympathize with me or not. What I want to happen is happening. It does not bother me in the slightest if some people on a random internet forum agree with me. Opinions on the internet are a dime a dozen, this is just random debate and talk.

    And please, as if only 13 year old's use terms such as "roflstomp". Go youtube videos of Marine and Army Officers who are flying Cobras and Apaches talking over the headset during kills. "Boom Headshot!" and the like are incredibly common, aside from the occasional chuckle as well.

    ROFLSTOMPED just seemed very fitting, I am trying to think of another word that completely encompasses the brutal beating that Israel gave the Arab coalition in the Six Day War, and it is just not coming to me. They got completely worked by a country that was smaller, less equipped, and less trained.



    Oh yes, the West backed them. That should not downplay the enormous odds they had stacked against them. Without even linking the sources for detail, just look at the rough summary:

    Israel:

    50,000 troops
    214,000 reserves
    300 combat aircraft
    800 tanks[2]
    Total troops: 264,000
    100,000 deployed



    Egypt: 240,000
    Syria, Jordan, and Iraq: 307,000
    957 combat aircraft
    2,504 tanks[2]
    Total troops: 547,000
    240,000 deployed

    Israeli Casualties:

    776[3]–983[4] killed
    4,517 wounded
    15 captured[4]
    46 aircraft destroyed


    Arab Coalition Causalities:

    Egypt – 10,000[5]–15,000[6] killed or missing
    4,338 captured[7]
    Jordan – 700[4]–6,000[8] killed or missing
    533 captured[7]
    Syria – 2,500 killed
    591 captured
    Iraq – 10 killed
    30 wounded
    Total – between 13,200–23,500 killed
    5,500+ captured
    hundreds of tanks destroyed
    452+ aircraft destroyed



    Seriously, what else comes to mind at those numbers except for, "Owned" and "roflstomped"?

    "Decisive Israeli Victory" is quite fitting. Attacked out of aggression by a numerically superior and equipped force, and Israel ends it in mere days by not only repelling the attackers, but also capturing major territories and greatly increasing their country in the process. It truly was an amazing display of military cunning and strength.


    Jihadwatch is not racist in the slightest. The only people to have voiced public grievances against it were Islamic groups who labeled it a hate site. No other group has officially called foul on it. Mind you these are the same groups that are filled to the brim with apologist for the terror and barbaric acts of Islamic extremist across the world.

    The only thing the website does, is collect and anaylize such events into a single place. When ever a prominent Cleric mentions destroying Israel or burns an American Flag/preaches death of Americans, they report it. A Islamic mob attacks a Christian church in Egypt, they report it.

    Unless you find the notion of collecting and showing such events as hatespeech, there is nothing wrong with that website. Sabirah would like to think that those critical of Islam in the West are a small minority. This is so far from the truth it is not even worth mentioning. You can google up a slew of polls and researches that show the exact opposite. People have a right to be critical, Jihad Watch collects all those reasons into one place.

    And I still fail to see where this credibility comes into play. People have different opinions, I could care less if you see my side of things. I have an IDF bumper sticker on my car and an Israeli avatar as noted, do you really think you can change my point of view? Of course not, nor do I want to change anyone else's.

    I have nothing to be credible about, I am not making outrageous claims. Just voicing what I believe. Things that required claims, I backed up with evidence. Like the poll showing 62% did not want a Mosque at ground zero and went on to talk about how Americans were still incredibly distrusting of Islam. Those are facts, not opinions.
     
  18. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    As well as all the numbers and stuff

    Who the hell cares? Yes, Israel won this war, and a few others, by a pretty wide margin. Nobody disputed it, however. it's like you just to rub it in people's face for no good reason. it doesn't prove any sort of point. I don't care how genius it was from a military standpoint. ''Yay, we beat them evil muslims!'' Big friggin deal.

    So yeah, call ''roflstomped'' all you want. You just make a bloody war seem like a Call of Duty match.



    So you are telling me that people who spend their time cataloging everything bad to happens about Islam have no opinion about it and simply do it out of the kindness of their hearts? Also, those events you mentionned are vastly beyond the scope of ''muslims are teh evilz''. We should worry about the causes of these events, not how many Imams go on crazy rants a day, that doesn't help anybody.

    Yet those that are critical of your pet site are Islamic apologists. As a side note, I am an atheist that's merely interested in the subject because I had courses on it. I do worry about Islamic extremism a lot, and yes horrible things do happen in Allah's name. But, I also worry about the fact people are downright determined not to see any other facet of this religion, especially in the US.

    Erm, a poll is not a fact. It's a collection of many opinions. That doesn't make them any less opinions. And just taking a number out of context is silly, as you should know; 62% don't want a Mosque at Ground Zero. That's a bit like Japanese people not wanting an American embassy filled with flags of the nation at Hiroshima a few years after the bombs fell. It's kinda normal. Elsewhere, nobody seems to have a particular problem with Mosques so long as they don't go overboard, save a handful of raging anti-Islamics.
     
  19. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    Yes yes, because those Officers were in such terrible fears of their lives when they laughed and heckled at those militants they engaged in the air from a good mile away. Seriously, have you ever watched one of those videos? Those guys on the ground have no idea what hit them, it is rather fascinating to watch from a technological standpoint.

    Or you know, you could just google up one of the dozens upon dozens of videos of Marines and Soldiers calling in artillery and airstrikes on targets and listen to some of the things they say when they watch it come in. Granted this is just what you can find on the internet, my personal experience with my friends who have come back is much more explicit on how they feel, but that is anecdotal and we will not go there.

    And I am neither, I just care little for the deaths of the enemies of a country that I personally hold dear and is an ally of my country. I have nothing but respect for the Israeli's that died during the Six Day War. I do not feel the need to show the same respect to an enemy that I had no respect for to begin with.

    Besides, I simply said a few short sentences, it is not as if I droned and on and on about how glad I was that they got absolutely smashed. To be perfectly honest, I was not taking the conversation very serious. I look back fondly on something that I see as a great victory, it is something I can joke around about. You see it as a travesty and a crime. That is the difference here between us.


    My feelings on the subject of war and death are quite well known here. I have the greatest respect for the sacrifices that our servicemen/women, and allies make. The deaths of our enemies are of less of a concern to me. I would not trade a single Marine, Soldier, Airman, or Sailor, for a thousand Iraqi or Afghani civilians.

    Are you familiar with the indoctrination and culture American troops are exposed to on a regular basis? There are a few good psychology papers written on it that you can google up. Becoming friends with a many enlisted Marines or Soldiers will also get you the same taste though. Hadji is not just a popular racial slur, it also helps remove the human element from the people they have to fight. When you remove the human element from something, it makes it easier to take its life.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_qzEY8R3rU[/youtube]

    Note the laughter, applause, and cheers of approval from his fellow Marines at the 3:15 mark in the video. I posted the lyrics from that section below.

    [spoiler:0d0de44ce9]So I grabbed her little sister, and pulled her in front of me.

    As the bullets began to fly
    The blood sprayed from between her eyes
    And then I laughed maniacally

    Then I hid behind the TV
    And I locked and loaded my M-16
    And I blew those little f*ckers to eternity.

    And I said…
    Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
    Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
    They should have known they were f*ckin’ with a Marine.[/spoiler:0d0de44ce9]


    Well yes, if you did it only towards Caucasians, sure. The website is not even called "Islam Watch" or "Muslim Watch". It is called "Jihad Watch". I am pretty sure I do not need to explain to you the definition of Jihad.


    The things that the website highlights are not things that should be hid. There is no reason to just let it pass by and brush it off. When thousands rally at a Muslim Brotherhood demonstration in Egypt and shout "One Day We Will Kill all Jews" and " “Tel Aviv, Tel Aviv: Judgment Day has come,. The peoples of the world and their leaders should take heed and be prepared to address such concerns. Websites such as Jihad Watch spread that message to the people, and I am thankful because it helps people like me get the word out to the masses with little to no effort on individual part.


    I am biased, there is no denying that. And sometimes I do get caught up in such things. It is not as if I have not said anything that the other side of the fence has not said about their victories if not worse. You can go and read some of the former Middle Eastern threads we have had here, they can sling it just as much as I do.

    For the most part though, on these forums a staunch pro-Israeli stance is in the minority. Which is fine, I have no interest in winning anyone over. :)

    Oh trust me, I know. The overall situation is quite grim for sure. I feel pretty bad for the Liberal college aged kids who got the initial ball rolling on the Arab Spring movements. Does everyone remember way back in the day before these were violent uprisings? When it was just the "Twitter Revoultion?".

    There was a good BBC article about it the other day actually. Talking about how that initial aspect had been completely forgotten by this point. The attention seized by religious fanatics who want to cast the dark shadow of extremist Islam over the country. Talks have raised in Egypt about that same ole song and dance. In particular that one spoke of possibility limiting the rights of women being able to drive and all that foolishness, sad for sure.

    All is not bleak though, times have changed and Israel will never stand alone if there was a true attack against her. Could you imagine the fury of the Western world that would descend upon the Middle East if Nuclear Weapons were used against Israel?

    There is a lot of finger pointing and tough talk towards Israel from the current administration. I don't buy into it as much though, if Israel was threatened, we would be there to defend her. Joe Biden said it best:

    "I am a Zionist," "You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist." Truer words have never been spoken.

    Or what about the talks back in the day of Hillary Clinton's promise to "Obliterate Iran" should it use nuclear weapons against Israel? That in its self is one of the greatest deterrent's there is. The promise that if nuclear weapons are used in aggression against Israel, that the United States will retaliate with our own arsenal.

    Mind you this was coming from a democrat. Imagine what would happen if this comes to pass when a Republican takes office again. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are winding down. The idea of putting boots on the ground to defend our allies and interest in Israel is not a far stretch in the next decade if things become unfriendly for them.

    Not to say that Israel is not perfectly capable of taking care of it's self. They are one of the worlds strongest military powers in the world. Virtually all Israeli citizens of age have military experience, with few exceptions. Their Air Force is second to only a select few nations and would easily rule the skies in any conflict with a surrounding neighbor.

    In the completely unlikely scenario that the West abandoned them and they face annihilation like so many Muslim fanatics desire, they have enough chemical,biological, and nuclear weapons to utterly decimate the entire region. That is not even an exaggeration, they have the capability to kill millions. State of the art aircraft, nuclear submarines supplied by Germany, and one of the most advanced ballistic missiles in the region all serve as delivery systems.


    Do not worry about Israels fate, you should worry about the fate of the millions surrounding Israel should she ever have to take a last stand. Thankfully that will not happen, The West will be there if it comes to that.
     
  20. Bal-Sagoth

    Bal-Sagoth Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    996
    Nov 1, 2008
    Oh I agree completely, it is a much better way to be able to get along with your neighbors. It is just near impossible to do, and true peace would not exist without one side making enormous concessions. I just don't see that as being very realistic in this situation.

    I will say that I don't buy into the Iran bomb hype that much though. Not that I want them to have nuclear weapons by any means, just that the thought of them having them does not concern me. Israel already has a pretty big head start on nuclear weapons and research Not to mention all the Sarin they have been speculating to be creating and stockpiling in Ness Ziona since the late 80s.

    To be blunt, I consider the Iranians and like minded folks to be a lot of things, but not stupid. Despite the posturing, I am pretty sure that they know full well that using a nuclear weapon against Israel in offense would be the end of them. Not that Israel could recover from that it's self by any means, the damage would be done. If they could not retaliate themselves, others would.