UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
The radio discussion is about more than just the immersion problems but as that discussion is elsewhere, let's leave it there.ArmorB said:
AtomicGamer and IncGamers interview Pete Hines
- Thread starter Brother None
- Start date
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Slaughter Manslaught
Vault Senior Citizen
I think it rains in the Fallout World sometimes, but it's probrably very, very rare, like a rain each bimester or trismester. Maybe we get more, but some are acid rains and only some are actually normal rains.
goffy59
Still Mildly Glowing
So fallout 3 has a big cock. I get it.
bonustime
First time out of the vault
WHYBrother None said:
WHY
WHY
First of all making a day pass in 40 minutes is just going to play awful. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have had time pass in real time.
SECONDLY
Does this mean they have just completely fucking done away with the whole sleep thing? I might be jumping to conclusions but the way they say, "you'll have to wait till morning" implies that there is no way to fast forward through time. Yay so now I'll have to just sit there and wait for stores and shit to open.
So I suppose the only way to heal yourself in this game is going to be stimpacks and food(why the hell does food even heal you).
bonustime said:
This is an odd design decision. While I do not like a 1:1 cycle, a 40 cycle seems ridiculously fast. I couldn't say what would be ideal since for me it would be based on distances, how long quests take, average total time to beat the game, etc but at least 3-4 hours seems right. Add in pass time so you don't have to sit around and viola.
4rekl said:
Well, it depends. In early 90's most action etc. games had story like "rescue the princess/girlfriend" or "kill the aliens". But in contrast, there were rpgs that had really deep story lines. It has been said that Metal Gear was the first action game that tried to have some kind of deeper plot, or thats at least what I have heard.
I personally loved when in original Fallouts text told you what things looked like and so on (!rocks everywhere!). To me, that seems much warmer option than just "looking at stuff."
Expecially if that stuff has been copypasted million times....
Edit: Does anyone remember how fast day changed in GTA4?
Story was NOT a larger priority back in the 80s and early 90s. In fact, for most games - story was restricted by the byte, the majority of RPGs couldn't give a crispy shit about elaborate stories (see Ultima IV, Wizardry I-V, Might and Magic up until it died).
Contrary to what most people think, story should always be the last thing worked on in an RPG, I think that ever since developers started trying to tell some real elaborate stories in RPGs the player began to lose the ability to make his own story, the difference between Ultima IV and Planescape: Torment. The quest to become the Avatar is entirely free form, and I believe that Ultima IV's story is better technically than Planescape's simply because in the end it's such a vague yet all consuming task that throughout the entire game everything you do affects your progress.
That's what player action affecting the story truly is, not PS:T or Fallout, but the eight virtues and the fact that no matter how simply scripted or otherwise inconsequential they might be, the fact is that they're always there and they become more of a gameplay feature than a simple bit of text.
Not only are modern games more focused on story, but they're also more focused on telling that story through the developer's eyes and leaving it to the player to wallow around in it. See the Half-Life revolution.
Contrary to what most people think, story should always be the last thing worked on in an RPG, I think that ever since developers started trying to tell some real elaborate stories in RPGs the player began to lose the ability to make his own story, the difference between Ultima IV and Planescape: Torment. The quest to become the Avatar is entirely free form, and I believe that Ultima IV's story is better technically than Planescape's simply because in the end it's such a vague yet all consuming task that throughout the entire game everything you do affects your progress.
That's what player action affecting the story truly is, not PS:T or Fallout, but the eight virtues and the fact that no matter how simply scripted or otherwise inconsequential they might be, the fact is that they're always there and they become more of a gameplay feature than a simple bit of text.
Not only are modern games more focused on story, but they're also more focused on telling that story through the developer's eyes and leaving it to the player to wallow around in it. See the Half-Life revolution.
Zeld said:
Actually, in Metal Gear 1 & 2 the stories were more vehicles for parody than a serious plot. They were then retconned into the greater plot of the series, but even then they contributed far less in terms of story than the MGS games. The series was very different before it was solid. Even the plot twist about Big Boss being Snakes father that supposedly happened in Metal Gear 2 was first introduced in MGS1. Still, as far as I can remember (and action games are not my cup of tea, so I could be wrong) Metal Gear Solid was the first action game I came across with any form of emphasis on plot or story at all.
Zeld said:
24 minutes. Which makes some sense, 1 minute of real time is an hour of game time. 40 minutes seems completly arbitrary.
By plot in MG1 you mean "Infiltrate... enemy fortress... outer heaven. Destroy... ultimate weapon... Metal Gear" (to quote the opening line.intro sequence of MG1 as it was quoted in MGS2.), with a twist at the end about the radio dude being the end boss, which was obviously given away by his parody name- Big Boss.
It's really not that much more detailed than "The Princess has been kidnapped and is perpetually in another castle. Rescue her, while tripping on Magic Mushrooms."
And Fallout 3 gets banned in Autralia for portraying drug use...
48 minutes could make sense. To be fair, I don't mind rescaling the day like this. the geography is being scaled down, so rescaling the time so it doesn't take you ten minutes of game time to walk from end of a major metropolis to another seems sensible. Yes, it's a trick, but one worth doing I think.
It's really not that much more detailed than "The Princess has been kidnapped and is perpetually in another castle. Rescue her, while tripping on Magic Mushrooms."
And Fallout 3 gets banned in Autralia for portraying drug use...
48 minutes could make sense. To be fair, I don't mind rescaling the day like this. the geography is being scaled down, so rescaling the time so it doesn't take you ten minutes of game time to walk from end of a major metropolis to another seems sensible. Yes, it's a trick, but one worth doing I think.
aenemic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Polynikes said:
it's a new version of the PipBoy, it can do whatever Bethesda wants it to do. it's been 200 years and I'd be surprised if the Vault hasn't done some improvements to it over all those years. maybe they've added a radio reception to be able to keep better track on what's going on outside the Vault. sounds like a great idea to me.
as for the day/night cycle - there are very few games where time moves in real time. I've never actually bothered to look up how fast time move in different games, but it's never been a problem for me.
and obviously you can rest/wait and let time pass instantly. I'm fairly sure it'll work the exact same way as in Morrowind and Oblivion. which is pretty much the same as it worked in the old Fallouts.
Ideally, time should pass according to relative distance travelled in real world terms. Say it takes 5 minutes to walk 1 mile in the real world. Have the character walk 1 virtual mile through the gameworld, see how long it takes in real time, and then you've got your real world/game world time ratio.
If it takes 30 seconds for the character to walk 1 virtual game mile, then you've got a 1:10 ratio. It should take 2.4 hours real time to pass 24 hours game time.
If it takes 30 seconds for the character to walk 1 virtual game mile, then you've got a 1:10 ratio. It should take 2.4 hours real time to pass 24 hours game time.
sarfa, did you ever play Metal Gear 2?
If you didn't you should know that MGS pretty much ripped off Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake's storyline.
All it added was a plot about genes.
If you didn't you should know that MGS pretty much ripped off Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake's storyline.
All it added was a plot about genes.
I did indeed, but MG2 was still primarily parody. For all the plots were eerily similar, MGS was the first one to take the story element seriously.
However, from a story point of view, once you remove the genes, the cloning, (and thus the genome soldiers, the demand for Big Boss remains and the villain's motive being an inferioty complex due to recieving the inferior (sic) genes) how much of MGS story is left? Nothing. That 'plot about genes' is what MGS's story was all about, remove it and you remove the story. GENE MEME SCENE, remember?
MG2 and MGS were similar in many ways, but the stories were very different.
However, from a story point of view, once you remove the genes, the cloning, (and thus the genome soldiers, the demand for Big Boss remains and the villain's motive being an inferioty complex due to recieving the inferior (sic) genes) how much of MGS story is left? Nothing. That 'plot about genes' is what MGS's story was all about, remove it and you remove the story. GENE MEME SCENE, remember?
MG2 and MGS were similar in many ways, but the stories were very different.
At this point I've just resigned myself to the fact that Bethesda, like it or not, owns the IP now, and are free to rape it as hard as they see fit. And rape it they will.
A new advanced Pip-Boy, even though the war was 200 years ago, and no one at vault-tek was around to invent new things? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Brotherhood of Steel being a militant summer camp for wanna-be soldiers and cops? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
The Enclave being utterly destroyed, and yet being able to build more verti-birds, and move their HQ to Washington D.C.? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Jet showing up on the west coast a hundred years after Myron died in a bar fight in New Reno? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Radio DJ's, houses you can decorate, and robots that fly around playing marching band music? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Super Mutants from the west coast showing up in D.C. a hundred years after their military base was wiped out, preventing new super mutants from being created? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
It's becoming pointless to point all all the places where they ignore, and/or spit in the face of the original games. They decided a long time ago that those other games weren't something to be respected. They long ago decided that fans of Fallout weren't as important as fans of Bethesda.
A new advanced Pip-Boy, even though the war was 200 years ago, and no one at vault-tek was around to invent new things? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Brotherhood of Steel being a militant summer camp for wanna-be soldiers and cops? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
The Enclave being utterly destroyed, and yet being able to build more verti-birds, and move their HQ to Washington D.C.? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Jet showing up on the west coast a hundred years after Myron died in a bar fight in New Reno? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Radio DJ's, houses you can decorate, and robots that fly around playing marching band music? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
Super Mutants from the west coast showing up in D.C. a hundred years after their military base was wiped out, preventing new super mutants from being created? No problem, Bethesda says it's canon, so now it is.
It's becoming pointless to point all all the places where they ignore, and/or spit in the face of the original games. They decided a long time ago that those other games weren't something to be respected. They long ago decided that fans of Fallout weren't as important as fans of Bethesda.