Bad things of fo1,2?

I don't know why everyone is always complaining about companions shooting you in the back, never happened with anyone not even Ian and he always had an automatic weapon on him. One thing I do hate about fallout 1/2 are the crashes and corrupted games. Had one on my L10 char with all 3 party members, power armor and alien blaster + LE BB gun given to katja, was about to kick master's ass when my game crashed and the safe file got corrupted and I lost both alien blaster and BB gun as I got them both on my way to the hub. Still not as bad fallout 3/NV but it can still ruin your day.
 
Sonichu_fanboy3456984 said:
One thing I do hate about fallout 1/2 are the crashes and corrupted games. Had one on my L10 char with all 3 party members, power armor and alien blaster + LE BB gun given to katja, was about to kick master's ass when my game crashed and the safe file got corrupted and I lost both alien blaster and BB gun as I got them both on my way to the hub.

A wise man always has multiple save slots.
 
Bad dungeon.
In fact, I wasn't willing to criticize fallout's dungeon since fallout wasn't dungeon based RPG.
But as a sequel of Wasteland, I can say dungeon is bad.
 
woo1108 said:
Bad dungeon.
In fact, I wasn't willing to criticize fallout's dungeon since fallout wasn't dungeon based RPG.
But as a sequel of Wasteland, I can say dungeon is bad.
It's not a sequel of Wasteland. Spiritual successor doesn't mean sequel. If you are going to consider it that way, then another bad thing would be the inability to directly control the party as you can do with the rangers.

Also, I hate when a game is full of pointless dungeons. You want dungeons, give them a reason to be. Otherwise, they're not needed.
Of course, that's just a matter of taste (I'm simply explaining mine), I focus on story, a lot of other people focus on having things to explore and dungeons become important.
 
Oppen said:
woo1108 said:
Bad dungeon.
In fact, I wasn't willing to criticize fallout's dungeon since fallout wasn't dungeon based RPG.
But as a sequel of Wasteland, I can say dungeon is bad.
It's not a sequel of Wasteland. Spiritual successor doesn't mean sequel. If you are going to consider it that way, then another bad thing would be the inability to directly control the party as you can do with the rangers.

Also, I hate when a game is full of pointless dungeons. You want dungeons, give them a reason to be. Otherwise, they're not needed.
Of course, that's just a matter of taste (I'm simply explaining mine), I focus on story, a lot of other people focus on having things to explore and dungeons become important.

Don't be mad, relax man :lol: . what I want to say is it would be better to enhance dungeon not to say " oh since fallout's dungeon is bad, its bad game.". I hate pointless dungeons that only good thing is quantity(maybe bad point though :lol: ) like beth's game either.
But for wasteland's example for infiltrating court house, you can just walk into the court house and kill all bad guys and rescue mayor or find secret passage to enter and climb up the tree to , infiltrate sliently to captive to rescue and evade bad situation. Like this example fo's dungeon can be well enhanced by using lots of methods.
 
What do you mean by "dungeon" exactly? I have the feeling something is lost in translation here. Your usage of the word is peculiar.
 
Buxbaum666 said:
What do you mean by "dungeon" exactly? I have the feeling something is lost in translation here. Your usage of the word is peculiar.
Maybe closed area that filled with enemy and puzzles. :roll:
 
woo1108 said:
Oppen said:
woo1108 said:
Bad dungeon.
In fact, I wasn't willing to criticize fallout's dungeon since fallout wasn't dungeon based RPG.
But as a sequel of Wasteland, I can say dungeon is bad.
It's not a sequel of Wasteland. Spiritual successor doesn't mean sequel. If you are going to consider it that way, then another bad thing would be the inability to directly control the party as you can do with the rangers.

Also, I hate when a game is full of pointless dungeons. You want dungeons, give them a reason to be. Otherwise, they're not needed.
Of course, that's just a matter of taste (I'm simply explaining mine), I focus on story, a lot of other people focus on having things to explore and dungeons become important.

Don't be mad, relax man :lol: . what I want to say is it would be better to enhance dungeon not to say " oh since fallout's dungeon is bad, its bad game.". I hate pointless dungeons that only good thing is quantity(maybe bad point though :lol: ) like beth's game either.
But for wasteland's example for infiltrating court house, you can just walk into the court house and kill all bad guys and rescue mayor or find secret passage to enter and climb up the tree to , infiltrate sliently to captive to rescue and evade bad situation. Like this example fo's dungeon can be well enhanced by using lots of methods.

I'm not mad, and I didn't interpret it as "it's a bad game because dungeons are bad". I just said what I thought about dungeon games :p
I don't really like them very much, just that. I find boring the whole proccess of going through them just to kill things and obtain loot without any meaningful reason. I mean, if you actually were a guy in the wasteland, aware of the dangers, would you enter caves just because? Maybe if you're playing a stupid character, else, you wouldn't. And usually it's just shitty loot, nothing worthy. Maybe you could go into a cave if circumstances outside are really ugly (you are getting bullets in every inch of flesh you have, you need to cover), but then you're probably not in the mood of dungeon exploring, but in the mood of "please, let not be deathclaws inside, pretty, pretty please with cream on top!" :lol:

Anyway, I'm not against it when it makes sense, like your point of being a hidden entrance to court house.
 
The thing that's annoying me in FO2 is the combat/targeting mechanism. All guns appear to lose 4% accuracy fro each hex you are from the target. An increase of 1 in Perception adds 16 to your small arms skills for rifles but only 8 to hand-guns. With low skill levels and low perception the balance is fine, albeit that you won't live to reach level 18. With high skills and perception it probably doesn't matter. The problems really show with decent perception but low skills. A hunting rifle at range 1 can be 95% whilst a hand-gun can be 50%. It would make much more sense to have the perception difference at 16 for all guns and vary the hex accuracy between 2% for sniper rifles and 8% for inaccurate weapons such as the basic pistol. There's also a mistake with the FN Fail rifle which treats it as a handgun for targeting purposes.
 
- AI of my teammates, aka "I'm low on health! Let's run right into that enemy mutant with minigun and ask him for stimpaks" aka "Oh, the Vault Dweller is in front of me? Let me shoot in a burst mode!"

- AI of enemies - they often act stupid.

- In FO2 I hate first two locations (Arroyo and Klamath). Its like taking first location from FO1 (the rat cave) and just making it 20 times longer. I just hate it!

- FO2 new models and animations. They stand out too much and they are ugly. The only ones that are good is APA and Frank Horrigan. That's about it.


But don't get me wrong here. I LOVE those games.
 
It's funny how everyone is complaining how critical hits made the game more frustrating because of enemies scoring them, while for me it was for the exact opposite reason. The critical hit system was absolutely insane; high level eye shots resulted in critical hits almost a 100% of the time, and even without the sniper perk it was still insanely high. Criticals are fine as long as they are rare; the Fallout 1/2 system was entirely absurd and made late-game combat completely boring. For instance, my last Fallout 1 game was as a retarded brawler; I easily massacred the entire Brotherhood of Steel single handedly with Tesla Armor and a Powerfist. Hopefully this will be fixed soon (I'll have a go at it, but I'm not sure the sfall critical overrides system can fundamentally change it).
 
I don't know, I think when shooting in the eyer it should be hard to hit, but if it hits it makes sense for me that it's likely a critical. I mean, it's not like it isn't an entry door for the brain, it should make a lot of damage if you manage to hit.
 
Fine, but Fallout doesn't work that way in practice. It doesn't take a lot of effort to get your combat stat up to 150-200% at mid-game, which in turn makes an eye hit as easy as a body hit. If skill progression were substantially slowed down, meaning that an eye hit would in practice always be significantly harder than a body hit, then I would agree with you, but I don't think this can be modded as of yet.

EDIT: I do agree with your general point though: an eye hit should be extremely damaging, so having almost a sure critical hit makes sense. The real problem therefore is that it's just too damn easy. As long as skill progression can't be slowed, a nice workaround might be to simply raise everyone's Armor Class.
 
JimTheDinosaur said:
Fine, but Fallout doesn't work that way in practice. It doesn't take a lot of effort to get your combat stat up to 150-200% at mid-game, which in turn makes an eye hit as easy as a body hit. If skill progression were substantially slowed down, meaning that an eye hit would in practice always be significantly harder than a body hit, then I would agree with you, but I don't think this can be modded as of yet.
I have no idea about modding, so I can't say which is easier to fix, but as I see it the proper fix would be changing how the called shots work. I know one factor is which body part you aim, so I'd change how skill affects the shot depending on body part. This way, the non-called shot hit probability remains unchanged, but you can make it increase slower for a given body part. In this case, eyes, which should be really slower. Something like, say, not being more than 10% in average for mid-game.
 
Oppen said:
I have no idea about modding, so I can't say which is easier to fix, but as I see it the proper fix would be changing how the called shots work. I know one factor is which body part you aim, so I'd change how skill affects the shot depending on body part. This way, the non-called shot hit probability remains unchanged, but you can make it increase slower for a given body part. In this case, eyes, which should be really slower. Something like, say, not being more than 10% in average for mid-game.

Yeah, I considered that (and that's pretty easy, one modder has made it possible to change the chance for every called shot; so you could make the eye shot penalty go from 60 to, say, 100), but one annoying side effect would be to overpower the boring fast shot/increased rate of fire combo. As I said above, I think a better work around would be to raise everyone's AC; in practice this would make an eye shot harder than a body shot throughout the game unless you pump all of your skill points into combat stats. But admittedly this isn't ideal; it's not nice to have a 1% chance of an eye hit until mid-game, so slower skill progression (e.g. 2 points for 75-100, 3 points for 100-125, etc.) would be much nicer.
 
Oppen said:
JimTheDinosaur said:
Fine, but Fallout doesn't work that way in practice. It doesn't take a lot of effort to get your combat stat up to 150-200% at mid-game, which in turn makes an eye hit as easy as a body hit. If skill progression were substantially slowed down, meaning that an eye hit would in practice always be significantly harder than a body hit, then I would agree with you, but I don't think this can be modded as of yet.
I have no idea about modding, so I can't say which is easier to fix, but as I see it the proper fix would be changing how the called shots work. I know one factor is which body part you aim, so I'd change how skill affects the shot depending on body part. This way, the non-called shot hit probability remains unchanged, but you can make it increase slower for a given body part. In this case, eyes, which should be really slower. Something like, say, not being more than 10% in average for mid-game.

I'm working on a mod which more or less tries to do this (if I understand you correctly now); the hitchance of eye shots would now progress slower than that of body shots. You can read about it here in case you're interested.
 
Random encounters were far too often in Fallout 2, and Coyotes were totally overpowered.


I couldn't travel anywhere without getting torn to shreds by Coyote packs in Fallout 2.
 
Coming off from a near complete "guide dang it" playthrough of FO 2, here's a list of stuff I'd gladly put hours, days and years into improving if I had any clue about modding.


1) Companion system

Playing the game without the "control companions" feature even if it crashes the game is unbelievably reductive. Nothing would frustrate me more than if the next sfall doesn't have the featue even in the buggy state. With companions limited to non-burst weapons and suicidal tendencies - you're better off without most of them frustration wise, and then you need so little gear that rewards lose all meaning.

Flavour of not having companions be just mindless extensions of the main character - fine, but with the AI such as it is... just no.


2) Fallout 2 was really phoned in too much

2.1) The person who said "no radio's" actually had a point. If you could bloody well use a radio to communicate with various people, there'd be no need for mysticism - you could have a quest to bring one back and keep in contact with Arroyo, and you could keep contact with other people and factions.

2.2) Caravan's are another thing - if you could transport groups of people (play it out as a caravan from point a to point b) the overall story of the game would kick ass. You could link various city stories togather and make the whole disjointed and phoned in mess work so much better with just a few quests - which would also provide random encounters and ways to move from city to city instead of just moving a cab.

A few things that it would allow - solving the Broken hills tensions by "moving" the disgruntled humans to redding to replace the miners that the Enclave took away to mariposa. Would give more meaning to both of those towns. Helping vault city install a doctor in the Den to cure the jet addiction (hey, nurse Phyllis wanted to see the world). Settling down liberated slaves - or moving captured ones. Moving a drug operation from new reno into klamath. Helping NCR establish a presence somewhere. Settling Skags from modoc in the temple of trials to grow food while you look for the geck - so much potential for just about anything...

None of this would change the game as is at all and could've been there in the first place...

2.3) Factions! FFS! San Fran is disconected from everything and you meet the Hubologists entirely too late in the game. All the conflicts there feel like an addon and have nothing to do with the game world - except they're mandatory. The Brotherhood of Steel is so entirely wasted in the game it's unbelievable - so is the Enclave. If the struggle was built up by having your clueless tribal do small tasks for strange guys all through the game (in the den and in other places) and connect them to the various "dungeons" to a degree it would make more sense - plus, you'd get a chance to boost your stats earlier if each base let you in after you done it's quest and let you use a keycard. The slavers are a complete non-option, and the rangers lack presence as well. The skags in Modoc are also pretty wasted and didn't have to be...


3) Loot

Way too much loot floating around, and way too many easily accessible shopkeepers selling gamebreaking stuff. Seriously - if you take the quest to take a ride to NCR from Vault City, go there and buy a decent gun, and you just go back, most of the loot for a good while will serve no purpose but to be sold for another awesome gun - even if the drops are a substantial improvement to what you had available before the trip.

And if you stop in broken hills you can do all the quests there, jump over the New Reno, and get upgrades for free for anything.

If you clear out any major "dungeon" and haul everything out - boom goes any semblance of balance.


4) Skills

are all over the place in terms of usefulness. And not just usefulness but ways to increase them - one of the first things a guide to FO2 teaches is that there are skills that you can improve with books so much that you don't need to put skill points in them. I spent a better part of the game with a full 99 skill points bar (with gifted, even), because I didn't need to allocate skill points, and mostly emptied it when something called for a specific skill check.


5) Traits

are also all over the place, as are perks. I remember using a save game editor to replicate the effects of gifted and small frame so I could have fun with other traits on a "do everything character", essentially giving me 4 traits. I didn't want fast shot because I wanted to be able to aim for fun, but then I was left with Good Natured and Finesse as sort of meaningful ones...


6) And the perks

are such that if you had one every level nothing much would change - I'm playing that way right now and all it means is that I have stuff I'd take anyway and some fun stuff I'd never try out AND the stuff which is just interface improvements (Awareness, Quick Pockets). Most are so marginal, and so few are really relevant that if you grab one every level and ignore the stat increases (or gifted) you're not much stronger at all (at the difficult setting)


7) Why in the world is there so little poison/radiation in the game?

Would it really hurt to have at least Gecko be a deathtrap without rad-aways and radX, what with all the goodies and quests over there? Broken Hills are mining uranium, toxic caves are full of goo, etc. It's like it was cut from the game completely, but the weightless and pricey anti-rad-drugs were left around because... what? And all the related perks look like they'd make sense in a game called fallout except they don't...


8) Weapon skills system - coupled with the companion system. Without the use of a "control companions" mod, you have to throw flares yourself - and you probably suck at throwing. Then you have vic and cassidy who are good at small guns, but only one guy, marcus, who is good at both big guns and energy weapons. And no big guns or energy weapons early in a very long game, so there's no real point in boosting them early. Surely there could've been tazers and stun guns which would work as energy weapons with a low-grade battery ammo, and the hunting rifles and sniper rifles could've been non-burst big guns?


9) Weapons/armor system - there's a balancing problem which affects progression. The end-game stuff is endgame stuff. San Francisco again turns the game completely around with stuff in shops that obsoletes anything you could possibly find elsewhere - the gauss rifle does everything better than any other gun (most other weapons really). The only way to buy them? Clear out the "dungeons" which are the only place where you'd really need them. I always somehow manage to go to San Fran because all the other shopkeepers ran out of money (and don't have anything to sell me), but then I leave so well equipped that wherever I go I know I can shoot up the place. This leaves dissatisfaction because there's ussually a lot to do, but the combat is trivial, non-combat is more complicated than simply shooting everybody would be, and I can't try all my toys out. Sure - don't take any of that stuff and you'll be fine, but again, drops lose all meaning, and then killing stuff loses a lot of meaning too, and so forth...


10) Criticals -

honestly, when I was playing it for the first time ages ago I wasn't aware there were aimed shots in the game, because I never made a character without fast shot. But I wouldn't mind if skills other than weapon handling factored into the criticals - first aid, doctor, science, outdoorsman, repair and so on.



Anywho, sorry about the lenght, a full complete playthrough will leave a man needing to unload.
 
About the radios thing, I always wondered why someone would put a map on the Pipboy (i.e., assume the user might travel) but wouldn't put a radio in it so the user could be still in contact with some of the vault dwellers. I wouldn't expect it to be able to communicate actually with people INSIDE the vault, because if it can stop radiation from coming in, it will stop radio signals (because it's a form of radiation, just a harmless one), but people could take turns to go out to listen, or groups could split up, etc.
 
Back
Top