Belief's and a happy life under science's terms.

[The Vault Dweller]

So I was reading this article in a popular magazine (I think time) about how a scientific study says people who are religious are a lot likely to be happier and less likely to fret over life's problems. This made me wonder though...is this a good thing for religion or a bad thing? Let me explain.

If the belief in God allows a person to live better then it gives the believers a chance to say "Oh so God is helping me be happy hence he exists.", but at the same time non-believers could say "Well since your happiness is proved to be scientifically based on the idea that no matter what happens you'll go to heaven or be unburdened somehow, then isnt it true that you only feel happier and this doesnt prove that God exists?". I mean this theoretical argument could go to explain why religion spreads the way it does...yet does this help faith by proving the benefits of God or only allow people to distill that help to be a form of emotional fact that doesnt need to be linked to God? I mean athiests could then go around believing "Regardless of God or not Im just gonna think everything will be fine in the end 'cause I dont want to end up unhappier for being an athiest." That idea could kill the benefit of being religious...of course that depends on whether that joy is really from God or the factual belief that was proved by the study to put someone at ease.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[Turnip]

The big benefit of religions is that people believing are certain.
Even if an atheist would say now i want to think that everyone is going to be fine, it does not necesary make him shure about it, faith is not connected to logic, it is virtually impossible to say: "it is a bennefit to believe that way because I will be happy that way".
So I think that it is neither god nor bad for religions, since you just can`t say this believing in heaven makes me happy, i`ll do it or to say: from now on I'm shure that everything wil be fine.
People who are certain that everything will be fine in the end from the beginning without being religious are IMO the ones best of, since they are happy, and do not have to practise religious rituals as sitting in a church listening to a priests one-man show for hours.

 

[Brother None]

If the belief in God allows a person to live better then it gives the believers a chance to say "Oh so God is helping me be happy hence he exists.", but at the same time non-believers could say "Well since your happiness is proved to be scientifically based on the idea that no matter what happens you'll go to heaven or be unburdened somehow, then isnt it true that you only feel happier and this doesnt prove that God exists?". I mean this theoretical argument could go to explain why religion spreads the way it does...yet does this help faith by proving the benefits of God or only allow people to distill that help to be a form of emotional fact that doesnt need to be linked to God? I mean athiests could then go around believing "Regardless of God or not Im just gonna think everything will be fine in the end 'cause I dont want to end up unhappier for being an athiest." That idea could kill the benefit of being religious...of course that depends on whether that joy is really from God or the factual belief that was proved by the study to put someone at ease.

Really? Why? If they die and it turns out the atheists are right, it doesn't matter, they're dead and lived a happier life than the atheist, now sharing the same nothingness. If the atheists are wrong, so much the better

Tadaaa

 

[John Uskglass]

I love you Kharn, and I want to have your baby.

 

[Shadowbird]

I believe in God, but I don't do religion. God created us, so I think it's only obvious that he wants us to be happy. It's indeed much easier to live believing that someone wants to make you happy, than believing in nothing. For example, it's better to have a dad living somewhere on the other side of the world and never hear from him than not believing you have one (metaphorically speaking). The same with God. Most of the religions IMO are so caught up in their rituals and formalities that they've lost the original idea, which was the base of creating all religion - to make people happy.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Thanks Kharn. I know my idea seemed overly simplistic. I just...I like reading all the deep philosophical threads here, but I so rarely take part in them. The real problem is I have problems putting my thoughts into words. Maybe its, because I havent read all the books you guys refer to when you talk? I will read 'em someday...

Hey Shadowbird a lot of people have said that, but somehow you make it sound so benevolent. Yes religion tends to lose its roots so much that I always thought it is a belief in God they lost. Actually its just being happy.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

 

[MadDog]

(I swear I made a reply to this topic) Anyway, here I go again...

People who are religious feel that no matter how bad a day is, or how bad life is, God is with them, and he will help them. That's why a lot of drug addicts and criminals are seen praising God when they get a 2nd chance.

Also, God is used to explain miracles, instead of worrying about what happens after death, or when crazy things happen.

 

[Bradylama]

I don't do religion.

And I don't do windows.

Some people say I'm lazy. I simply respond with, "I don't mind looking through tinted glass."

 

[Lukus]

-]People who are religious feel that no matter how bad a day is, or how bad life is, God is with them, and he will help them.

Without meaning any disrespect to anyone, I must say I find it quite amusing when someone religious looses his faith after having endured extreme hardship, like getting sacked from his job in combination with being left by the wife for his best buddy, etc. As if they didn't know there was pretty much suffering in the world already; when it happens to them their conclusion is that there is no God after all. Just saying.

 

[Shadowbird]

About the bad things that happen to good/religions people: Bad things happen to almost everyone. We are God's children, and world is our playground - what we do here is entirely our own business. We've made it the way it is, and if God just waved his hand and made every bad thing go away, we would bring them back immediatley. That's why God doesn't *make* everyone happy, he wants us to *be* happy - find your happiness through self-knowledge and love for all living things. When you live with love and/or general positive attitude, it *is* much easier to be happy.

Hey Shadowbird a lot of people have said that, but somehow you make it sound so benevolent. Yes religion tends to lose its roots so much that I always thought it is a belief in God they lost. Actually its just being happy.

Every Christian religion on earth says they are "doing Gods bidding" or smth like that, but if God wants us to be happy, and the religion doesn't really care, than I wouldn't call it a real belief. Nevertheless, most people do find their peace and piece of happiness in religion. I'm just not one of them.

P.S. It's because of stuff like this that I don't believe in religion (AFAIK Catholics are in the lead in the "formalities over everything" area):
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/3286.html

 

[alec]

I like pussy.
Pussy, pussy, pussy.
Pussy in the morning,
pussy in the afternoon,
pussy at night.
Pussy makes me feel happy.

What would this world be without pussy?
An old abandonned hot dog stand.

God
is an old abandonned hot dog stand.
You just
blow me.

(Pablo Neruda)

 

[Dapper Dan Man]

If the belief in God allows a person to live better then it gives the believers a chance to say "Oh so God is helping me be happy hence he exists.", but at the same time non-believers could say "Well since your happiness is proved to be scientifically based on the idea that no matter what happens you'll go to heaven or be unburdened somehow, then isnt it true that you only feel happier and this doesnt prove that God exists?". I mean this theoretical argument could go to explain why religion spreads the way it does...yet does this help faith by proving the benefits of God or only allow people to distill that help to be a form of emotional fact that doesnt need to be linked to God? I mean athiests could then go around believing "Regardless of God or not Im just gonna think everything will be fine in the end 'cause I dont want to end up unhappier for being an athiest." That idea could kill the benefit of being religious...of course that depends on whether that joy is really from God or the factual belief that was proved by the study to put someone at ease.

Really? Why? If they die and it turns out the atheists are right, it doesn't matter, they're dead and lived a happier life than the atheist, now sharing the same nothingness. If the atheists are wrong, so much the better

Tadaaa

Isn't that an elaboration on Pascal's Wager?

Anyways, concerning religion: look how many there are in the world, scrambling over each other to pick up new converts. Tell me only one of them is right, and all the others are just "misguided" "philosophies" etc. Seems rather silly doesn't it? I mean, life should be pretty simple in comparison.

Try to seek happiness, better the world around you, be a decent person. If there is a benevolent deity, that should be enough. If there is not, then at least you made this parody called life a bit of a brighter place.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Ok I finally remembered the point I wanted to make, but forgot.

Anyone notice how the religions that have believers making up 5 of the 6 billion people in the world are all very related at their core beliefs? Is this a form of social darwinism?

Consider it. Any two creatures in the same nicht will compete and whichever is more efficient will ultimately drive the other to extinction. Well way back in the B.C.'s as youve probably read in cultural anthropology or in religious books there were once many indiginous religions with very varied beliefs that often involved rituals of human sacrifice and other bad things. Well since they are mostly gone today and the people that would have worshipped those deities were either killed or converted long ago isnt the spread of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism a form of social darwinism? I mean obviously since they all forgo murder they have a general respect for life that many of the "smaller" religions didnt. Could you say this made them more "efficient" by creating safe, happy societies which subsequently spread and grew faster than the others?

Yet is that proof of God or just proof of true science deriving facts in what some would call faith?

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller

P.S. I apologize for repeating myself. I didnt mean to.

 

[Lukus]

if God just waved his hand and made every bad thing go away, we would bring them back immediatley.

I respect faith and everything, but I think that's a pretty lame excuse. I mean, how so? He wouldn't have to tamper with our minds and make us all 'pure of heart' or anything - he could simply bestow us with more resources to feed the hungry and cure the ill. Anyone could look up to the sky and ask for a fresh meal and clean water, and it would appear. Unless of course it is part of Gods plan to have 11 million children die preventable deaths due to diseases each year while we are rolling ourselves in computer games and Coca Cola cans?

That's why God doesn't *make* everyone happy, he wants us to *be* happy - find your happiness through self-knowledge and love for all living things

Tell that to the 11 mil. children, to the grown men also dying preventable deaths due to diseases, and to all the people starving to death in the world. "God doesn't want to make you happy even though he can, since he wants you to find out that life is really great even without things like food and water, and that the answer lies in unequivocally loving all living things and "knowing yourself".

I guess I am forgetting of course that questioning Gods intentions, or even his existence, doesn't go very well with faith. I already can hear you reply "The Lord works in mysterious ways". As said earlier, I mean no disrespect towards anyones beliefs, I just thought it was pretty silly of you to claim that the reason why God doesn't 'wave his hand and make it all better' is because we puny humans are so fucked up we would only destroy his heavenly blessings anyway.

Oh well, futile argument.

 

[Zaij]

I respect faith and everything, but I think that's a pretty lame excuse. I mean, how so? He wouldn't have to tamper with our minds and make us all 'pure of heart' or anything - he could simply bestow us with more resources to feed the hungry and cure the ill. Anyone could look up to the sky and ask for a fresh meal and clean water, and it would appear. Unless of course it is part of Gods plan to have 11 million children die preventable deaths due to diseases each year while we are rolling ourselves in computer games and Coca Cola cans?

Or maybe we can just get off our collective asses and help them?

Tell that to the 11 mil. children, to the grown men also dying preventable deaths due to diseases, and to all the people starving to death in the world. "God doesn't want to make you happy even though he can, since he wants you to find out that life is really great even without things like food and water, and that the answer lies in unequivocally loving all living things and "knowing yourself".

See above. We've got more than enough resources to help.

I guess I am forgetting of course that questioning Gods intentions, or even his existence, doesn't go very well with faith. I already can hear you reply "The Lord works in mysterious ways". As said earlier, I mean no disrespect towards anyones beliefs, I just thought it was pretty silly of you to claim that the reason why God doesn't 'wave his hand and make it all better' is because we puny humans are so fucked up we would only destroy his heavenly blessings anyway.

Oh well, futile argument.

So this "God" fellow should come in and help us because we want him to, when we can help ourselves? "God" should be our servant?

 

[Shadowbird]

Everything we need for living - food, water - has been given to us from the very beginning. God did what you said - he gave us Earth that has water, fruits, plants, vegetables... and it was all infinite (regenerating). I don't think I have to start rambling about what we did and are still going to his presents. If a parent would come and clean up every mess his child makes, how will the child learn to clean up himself? If a parent gives his child food, and the child throws it out the window, is he supposed to give more? I don't think so. If God went and gave everyone what they asked for, can you even imagine what hell would break loose?

 

[Turnip]

And if daddy comes home drunk and beats up his children, it is an important lesson of life.
Or are Tsunamis, vulkans and earthquakes just entertainement, so that live doesn`t get boring?
I slightly tend to theism, but i don`t think god is a do(intend)-gooder, more like an artist or scientist, and i definitly do not think that god cares about the wellbeing of humanity, if he did he wouldn`t have made humans they way he did (if he did create humanity at full will).

 

[Shadowbird]

And if daddy comes home drunk and beats up his children, it is an important lesson of life.

God doesn't beat up his children.

Or are Tsunamis, vulkans and earthquakes just entertainement, so that live doesn`t get boring?

Most of them are caused by people - global warming, pollution, etc.

i don`t think god is a do(intend)-gooder, more like an artist or scientist, and i definitly do not think that god cares about the wellbeing of humanity, if he did he wouldn`t have made humans they way he did (if he did create humanity at full will).

He made us his children, with equal power and - most importantly - free will. Of all creatures, only humans have that.

 

[Brother None]

Whoa, boy, hey there, Shadowbird, humans may cause a lot of shit, but the ability to cause Tsunamis or cause volcanos to erupt is somewhat beyond us, despite what Austin Powers flicks may tell you

(well, maybe not beyond us, but we're not doing it right now)

 

[Turnip]

I would not say that Humans invented natural disasters, there where vulkans, Tsunamis and earthquakes where happening without human interference.
And sending Humanity those "presents" is beating up his children IMO.
Sorry but that is what I think

He made us his children, with equal power and - most importantly - free will. Of all creatures, only humans have that.

Oooookkkkk
Monkeys have, and some people think dolphins to, although I think they are just mamals looking like fish, tasty fish.