Benny should have been the final Boss

Norzan said:
Benny made it personal when he tried to kill you.
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And when i named my courier Maria, the fact that Benny using his Maria to shoot my Maria in the face .... that is super hilarious and practically demand maria must, must , pretend to be in lust with him and get to his room.

And kill him without doing anything else, because maria is not a black widow.

Noone would be fool enough to be lured into personal space with a girl he tried to killed before. Benny proved to be such dumbass, which is the whole point of that exercise.
 
Hardboiled Android said:
Hoover Dam would have been a location in Van Buren, but virtually the only thing in common between its Van Buren iteration and New Vegas is 1) it's held by NCR 2) the Chinese apparently tried to sabotage it pre-War. That's it.

Caesar's Legion appears, but again in wildly altered form and role.

Arcade Gannon is not from Van Buren, he was a player character made up by Josh Sawyer for a PnP game. He was never intended to appear in that game.
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Alphons said:
I think citation is needed with such bold claim.

NCR's involvement in VB is almost non-existent- Presper and his men are ex-NCR and some NCR troops help protecting the Hoover's Dam settlement, which can be nuked at the end.

Legion doesn't even have that- you meet their slaver party in Denver and have the option to free the slaves their captured.

What exactly is "Van Buren" about House and Yes Man?
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House and Yes Man need to retrieve the chip from Caesar, save the president etc. It's optional.
 
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laclongquan said:
And when i named my courier Maria, the fact that Benny using his Maria to shoot my Maria in the face .... that is super hilarious and practically demand maria must, must , pretend to be in lust with him and get to his room.

And kill him without doing anything else, because maria is not a black widow.

Noone would be fool enough to be lured into personal space with a girl he tried to killed before. Benny proved to be such dumbass, which is the whole point of that exercise.
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Benny could easily be betrayed by Swank too, if you give him Benny's lighter and some speech checks so Benny doesn't seem to be that demanding of a "final boss" if his mates can cuck him.
 
I actually think Benny being either a main antagonist or a companion would've been cool. I'm pretty sure Sawyer or Avellone said they wanted him as a companion but there was a rule that no story essential characters were to be companions. I think it could be cool for Benny to be a bigger threat despite what others in the thread think.

Maybe they could've made it harder to kill him, maybe he could only fail on his quest with the platinum chip if you purposefully sabotaged him, maybe he could overthrow House himself. I think a lot more could've been done with Benny and I wish we could've seen it.
 
Benny's whole deal is that he's weaker and more inept than The Courier, his hubris has forced him into a situation where he's writing checks he can't cash and his demise is inevitable.

He would be a terrible final boss, unless you completely rewrite his character from the ground up.
 
The only thing that makes Benny unique from everyone else is just his suit and gun. Aside from that he is just another wasteland opportunist without a spine so no he would have been a terrible final boss.
 
Disagree. THe fact that the man who starts your adventure ending up being a a bit player that is playing way out of his league in the gran scheme of things is great thematically for New Vegas. If he was the final boss it would be dumb.
 
Benny is pretty much setup as the "fake main antagonist". RPGs, specially the japanese variety, love this trope because a lot of them setup a character (a lot of them destroying the village the character was born in) as the big bad, only for halfway to reveal that they are just a cog in a big machine, a machine being controlled by much more powerful people.

Making Benny the final boss would require extensive rewrites and in my opinion that would be a waste of time. Caesar and specially Mr. House fill that role much better and exude far more authority and command than Benny.
 
I personally think you guys are selling Benny short. You make him seem like some incompetent wimp instead of the sneaky, conniving, manipulative person that he is. I don’t find it hard to believe that he could build his own cult of personality and successfully overthrow Mr. House. How long his reign could last is another matter entirely.
 
Iprovidelittlepianos said:
You make him seem like some incompetent wimp instead of the sneaky, conniving, manipulative person that he is.
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He's actually all four of these things, he's just not very good at three of them.

Iprovidelittlepianos said:
Well he would’ve been able to if it weren’t for that meddling courier and his stupid quest markers
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Not really, the second that you are able to prove to the Chairmen that something is up they flip on him practically instantly. What do you think would have happened once he told them his plan, a plan which is practically impossible because he can't actually access Mr. House on account of the sealed nature of the Lucky 38.
 
Dayglow Drifter said:
Not really, the second that you are able to prove to the Chairmen that something is up they flip on him practically instantly. What do you think would have happened once he told them his plan, a plan which is practically impossible because he can't actually access Mr. House on account of the sealed nature of the Lucky 38.
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If Benny had a securitron army at his disposal I think he would have an easier time convincing his fellow Chairmen as well as the other families to overthrow Mr. House. They all have their grievances against him. And he almost does manage to get to the Fort to activate the army, perhaps with more time to prepare he might have pulled it off. The question at this point is whether Benny would be able to use Yes Man to control the securitron army from the bunker at the Fort. Maybe he could enlist Emily Ortal to help with that.

I can’t think of a way that he would get into the Lucky 38, but the army at the Fort might be enough to force House into some kind of truce, like a power sharing type deal with Benny.

Sure, there’s a lot that can go wrong, but I think you guys are underestimating how close Benny was to pulling off his plan if it weren’t for the fact that some nobody he shot in the head and buried in a shallow grave happened to survive and become the protagonist of a video game.
 
He didn't almost get the fort to activate it, he was captured immediately (because they realized he was still sporting his pompadour with his Legionarie disguise) and were only keeping him alive as a way to entice the Courier to their side. I think you need to re-play the game. And the most dangerous family is already in cahoots with a more powerful faction to overthrow House.

Benny was never close to accomplishing his goals.
 
Walpknut said:
He didn't almost get the fort to activate it, he was captured immediately (because they realized he was still sporting his pompadour with his Legionarie disguise) and were only keeping him alive as a way to entice the Courier to their side. I think you need to re-play the game. And the most dangerous family is already in cahoots with a more powerful faction to overthrow House.
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Yes, but if he had been given more time to prepare he might have had enough stealth boys to make it to the bunker completely undetected (doesn’t he say he used a stealth boy to ride on the raft to the Fort?). And if he can command all the securitrons down there then he can pretty much wipe out every legionary staged at the Fort, maybe even Caesar himself. Then the Omertas wouldn’t have anyone to help them take over Vegas.

Also, if the Courier isn’t around to make waves, perhaps Benny is in a better position to deal with Caesar diplomatically, as he can offer to destroy the bunker for Caesar. Of course, Caesar would probably be smart enough to not entrust Benny with this, but then again, he’s dumb enough to entrust the Courier with it, so who knows.
 
But he can't control them. House has to be eliminated and Yes Man has to upload himself into Lucky 38 mainframe before taking control over Securitrons.

Even if he got into the bunker and activated the Securitron army, they'd still be under House's control.

I doubt Emily Ortal would want to help Benny after what happened between them. Plus remembering the Moon Comes Over The Tower and how quickly House deals with her bug I don't think she would be able to do anything.

Caesar trusts Courier, because they're an outsider. Would he really trust House's lapdog? Might as well be House's scheme to get whatever is hidden inside the bunker.
 
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Alphons said:
Even if he got into the bunker and activated the Securitron army, they'd still be under House's control.
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Are they under House’s control? I thought he was unable to control them until you activate the substation or something towards the end of the game.

Regardless, those are all fair points you made.
 
Iprovidelittlepianos said:
Are they under House’s control? I thought he was unable to control them until you activate the substation or something towards the end of the game.
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Yes, Securitrons can be directly controlled only on the Strip before installing the override at El Dorado, but they can be only controlled from Lucky 38. There's no way to override it from Fortification Hill.

So if House ever gets the substation, Benny gets killed by robots he turned on.
 
It definitely would've been interesting with a few ideas. but lanius and ulysses... They're just too badass it's not fair. If benny would force the courier to a big decision like if you kill him you turn everyone against new Vegas like a sovereign state something like that it would really cool, utilising his tricks and wits it would be interesting.
 
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