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Grizzly~Adams
It Wandered In From the Wastes
anybody who takes Metal seriously is ummm...
stupid. there I said it. Listen to some real music please.
stupid. there I said it. Listen to some real music please.
Daemon Spawn
Old Warrior of the Wastes
Grizzly~Adams said:
What is REAL MUSIC? Mr. 1337 musicman.
I say dogs barking "Jingle Bells" is real music.
pwned.
Grizzly~Adams said:
That's pretty sad and has nothing to support it. Metal music, and all forms of it, is some of the most technical and difficult music in the world.
Obviously, though, you're one of the masses who hear more than they listen, so kindly, STFU...unless you have something to back your case up. If so, by all means, correct me.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Malk, I'm going with you here: Metal music is very complex and technical. I played in a metal band before. But its still not all that enjoyable to listen to if you don't understand it or appreciate it. Its like an aquired taste. Me, I love Dimmu Borgir. That's some amazing stuff. But a lot of metal is really hard on the ears, and metal has the potential for being extremely terrible (like LOTS of metal bands are). Still though, I'd rather listen to, and play, music like jazz, blues, and rock. Its easier on the ears, and is a lot better suited for conveying emotions. I also find it a lot more fulfilling pulling off a complicated jazz solo on trumpet than pulling off a metal solo on guitar.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Agreed. That's something that like the Bush Administration would do. "All music is bad thats not from Texas!"
Grizzly~Adams
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Yes, I guess you are right, large amounts of distortion, poor songwriting, power chords and studio majic with no real no how of musical theory is very uh...technical.
but yes there are some talented metal bands. "Some" being the operative word.
but yes there are some talented metal bands. "Some" being the operative word.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Grizzly, do you even know anything about music theory, or what constitues musical complexity? Cause if you did, you'd realize that when you have a good metal band, that's all they play: technical, complex, extremely hard to play music.
Hmm...
Cite some metal bands, Grizzly. Who are you talking about?
I listen to metal bands like Dimmu Borgir, Between the Buried and Me, At The Gates, The Haunted, Darkest Hour, and a lot of extremely talented hardcore bands. I'm pretty sure 100% of those guys understand musical theory. Also, the majority of them don't use power chords....besides, whereas power chords are easy (especially in drop tuning), they sound a lot heavier and more distinct than your minor and major chords. Besides - those chords wouldn't normally work in metal songs anyway.
Cite some metal bands, Grizzly. Who are you talking about?
I listen to metal bands like Dimmu Borgir, Between the Buried and Me, At The Gates, The Haunted, Darkest Hour, and a lot of extremely talented hardcore bands. I'm pretty sure 100% of those guys understand musical theory. Also, the majority of them don't use power chords....besides, whereas power chords are easy (especially in drop tuning), they sound a lot heavier and more distinct than your minor and major chords. Besides - those chords wouldn't normally work in metal songs anyway.
Grizzly~Adams
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I actually used to be turned onto Metal when I was young and stupidand trying to be rebelious. I dug allot bands like Slayer, Dimmu Bogir and Mushugah (i know its not spelled right) until I got to seeing some of them live and realized how they care more about how cool there hair looks while headbanging, how much wattage there amps put out, how depressed, satanic and rebelious they look rather then there playing ability.
And yes I do know a little something about Music theory. I happen to be a perfoming arts/music major and come from family with a large musical backround that ranges anything from classical, bluegrass, to jazz.
And yes I do know a little something about Music theory. I happen to be a perfoming arts/music major and come from family with a large musical backround that ranges anything from classical, bluegrass, to jazz.
I agree most of those bands are stupid. Everything you said there is true (which is why I'm not really a big fan of metal, as oppsed to hardcore music and the independent scene). But - to put down an entire genre of music is downright asinine, especially if you study music.
But I understand what you mean now.
Musical debates are just like political and religions debates - no one wins and it turns into a flame war.
Where do you study, by the way?
But I understand what you mean now.
Musical debates are just like political and religions debates - no one wins and it turns into a flame war.
Where do you study, by the way?
OnTheBounce
Still Mildly Glowing
I would like to point out that an understanding of musical theory is not necessary for playing technically complex music. Lots of people do very complex things yet could not tell you the slightest things about the concepts underlying what they're doing.
That being said, technically complex music is not necessarily good music, either. Muddy Waters played some of the most simple, direct music and yet people like Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull had a huge hard-on for his music. Conversely, you could find all sorts of avante garde music which, while technically complex in the extreme, is about as pleasing for most people as running one's fingernails down a chalkboard...
Also, when one speaks in blanket terms about "heavy metal" it's really hard to accurately describe such a huge category. After all, this is a term that includes everything from '70s, down-tuned, power-chord-driven fare like Black Sabbath, to the '80s LA-based glam bands like Motley Crue, or the classically trained extremely intricate and sophisticated work of Ingwie Malmstein, and a whole lot more.
Finally, I really have to say that the idea that objective standards can be applied to a subjective subject is ludicrous. Music is largely cultural, otherwise Eastern music wouldn't get on Western listener's ears w/its scales consisting of 1/4 tones when those ears have been acculturated to 1/2 tones.
OTB
That being said, technically complex music is not necessarily good music, either. Muddy Waters played some of the most simple, direct music and yet people like Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull had a huge hard-on for his music. Conversely, you could find all sorts of avante garde music which, while technically complex in the extreme, is about as pleasing for most people as running one's fingernails down a chalkboard...
Also, when one speaks in blanket terms about "heavy metal" it's really hard to accurately describe such a huge category. After all, this is a term that includes everything from '70s, down-tuned, power-chord-driven fare like Black Sabbath, to the '80s LA-based glam bands like Motley Crue, or the classically trained extremely intricate and sophisticated work of Ingwie Malmstein, and a whole lot more.
Finally, I really have to say that the idea that objective standards can be applied to a subjective subject is ludicrous. Music is largely cultural, otherwise Eastern music wouldn't get on Western listener's ears w/its scales consisting of 1/4 tones when those ears have been acculturated to 1/2 tones.
OTB
Grizzly~Adams
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Im currently studying at the University Of Minnesota Deluth, I really don't like there Music program so after this semester Im thinking about trying to transfer to either Tennesee U, or Berklee.
King of Creation
Vault Fossil
Come to UConn, Grizzly. I really like the music program here. And they're building a whole new school of fine arts complex.
SoNR said:
These guys qualify as industrial metal http://www.deadstar.com
Listen to their song "Normal" it's great. It's on their downloads section.
OnTheBounce said:
Quoted for emphasis. Music, and in fact most art, is something that shouldn't have objectivity applied to it. Everyone has different standards and tastes, and that is what music appeals to. Music and art aren't subject to the same rules as science or engineering, where the worth can be directly tested and pointed to, ie "Is this bridge going to support the weight it was designed to support?", or "Will this experiment produce the same results every time it is performed?". Case in point: you could take a classes in music theory, form, etc., for any specific genre from classical to punk, and still not be able to make a song or composition in those genres that is worth anything or appeals to anyone, even if the compositions are "technically" correct and/or innovative.
Grizzly, if you end up going to Berklee don't move to Mission Hill or Roxbury. They are horrible places to live, and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.