Bethesda: Save the Single Player games

[D Borous]

Eh, I mostly was appealing to the games which I felt were important to me as a whole versus trying to argue the entire industry's disturbing trend to fall back on multiplayer over single player.

But off the top of my head:

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Halo
Dead Space 3
Grand Theft Auto V
Homefront
Assassins Creed: Unity
Mass Effect 3's endings were warped by the fact they had a Multiplayer by necessity moment.
Spec Ops: The Line's completely useless one
Battlefront
Knights of the Old Republic to SW: The Old Republic
Marvel Alliance became Marvel Omega
Star Wars: Visceral *

* https://kotaku.com/the-collapse-of-viscerals-ambitious-star-wars-game-1819916152

But yes, I feel micortransactions are a bigger issue but multiplayer has dominated a lot of these.

I'm a big believer in context, and every example sort of has its own story. I don't know the full story in every one, so I'll only give a brief summary of the issue in a few of them:

Dead Space 3: This was a case of executive meddling slowly but surely turning the series from survival horror with action elements into a full on action experience. It weren't multiplayer but co-op and microtransactions that ruined Dead Space, all with the intent of making it appeal to wider audiences so it would sell better, but instead the reversed happened, and now there's no more Dead Space. This video explains the subject in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edcBLDNR2Ig&t=609s


Assassin's Creed: Unity: I don't recall multiplayer ever being the bane of contention with this title. It was the blatant case of it being rushed for current systems and suffering a wealth of technical failures for it. Remember Ubisoft was also developing another Assassin's Creed at the same time.

Spec Ops: The Line: Again, it was a case of shoving it in there with the hopes of selling more. In that case, I think i can say that the multiplayer element doesn't tarnish the intent of the singleplayer. Here's another recent video and both modes:



Anyway that's my opinion on a few of them; I could probably write a novella on GTA and Mass Effect apiece but I'll leave it there.

 

[Valdetiosi]

Fallout 3 had a huge number of factions.

It's also one of the most atmospheric games of all time.

That chart is bullshit.

The only factions that I think in that game is the Regulators and the Talon Company, along with BOS and Enclave. But were they fully fleshed out factions? Did they have their own faction quests and endings related to what happens to them? If it would had been made by Obsidian, possibly.

Atmospheric as in, how? The destroyed washington DC? The metros? Random town with a bomb and town with slaves? I don't know if it's american thing, but seeing destroyed washington just made me say "meh", as it was nothing sort of surprising other than blocks of ruined towns over and over.

And the chart is not bullshit, if it would flat out lie, which it does not.

 

[R.Graves]

Fallout 3 had a huge number of factions.

Lol it literally has 2. And you can only join one.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

Eh, I mostly was appealing to the games which I felt were important to me as a whole versus trying to argue the entire industry's disturbing trend to fall back on multiplayer over single player.

But off the top of my head:

Homefront

Homefront wasn't that popular to begin with IIRC.

Mass Effect 3's endings were warped by the fact they had a Multiplayer by necessity moment.

That's not strictly true. If you don't have progress from the first two games then yes you do need to play the Multiplayer in order to get the best rating. Besides, I'd say the original endings (before the devs released the Extended version) were what had the worst effect.

Spec Ops: The Line's completely useless one

That had no effect on the main game. Spec Ops is a well-received game because of its themes, the multiplayer was tacked on. It wasn't as though the story was swapped out for it.

I can't really comment on the others since I haven't played them (save Halo 1).

Fallout 3 had a huge number of factions.

It's also one of the most atmospheric games of all time.

That chart is bullshit.

How many of those factions actually affect the main story? IIRC only the BOS and the Enclave do, unless you want to stretch it with the Super Mutants.

 

[nkchan16]

It's debatable but how about being objectively better?

I agree, in many ways it's better than 4 as well. BGS is a lazy ass developer who loves simplifying, streamlining things (some of us call that dumbing down for masses) and with every new BGS game, whether it's Fallout or TES, it gets worse and worse. I believe it'll continue as long as Todd Howard stays at the helm of development, although there's obviously a chance that it might get even worse when he's gone.

 

[CT Phipps]

How many of those factions actually affect the main story? IIRC only the BOS and the Enclave do, unless you want to stretch it with the Super Mutants.

You need to befriend Little Lamplight (which is a shitty faction admittedly) in order to get into the Super Mutants Vault and you need to get Fawkes' help to get the GECK. The main quest takes you through a number of communities and you have to recruit Rivet City in order to finish the Purifier.

Factions like Paradise Falls or Tenpenny Towers don't affect the main story but are intertwined with other quests.

Lol it literally has 4. And you can only join one.

With DLC you can join the Pitt Raiders or Rebels, you can also join Reilly's Raiders, become a slaver at Paradise Falls, become a Regulator, or become President of the Republic of Dave.

 

[CT Phipps]

Anyway that's my opinion on a few of them; I could probably write a novella on GTA and Mass Effect apiece but I'll leave it there.

Thanks for that but I'd be interested in a bit more on the GTA V business because I actually don't know that much about it. Only the basics.

 

[R.Graves]

which is a shitty faction admittedly

A town is not a faction

Factions like Paradise Falls or Tenpenny Towers

Again towns are not factions. Factions require conflict to be classed as factions.

With DLC you can join the Pitt Raiders or Rebels, you can also join Reilly's Raiders, become a slaver at Paradise Falls, become a Regulator, or become President of the Republic of Dave.

Again half of these barely qualify as a settlement let alone a fleshed out faction.

 

[CT Phipps]

The only factions that I think in that game is the Regulators and the Talon Company, along with BOS and Enclave. But were they fully fleshed out factions? Did they have their own faction quests and endings related to what happens to them? If it would had been made by Obsidian, possibly.

The majority of "factions" which exist in the game are the communities and groups fighting in the Wasteland which generally have a single quest related to them. No one is saying New Vegas didn't flesh out their works as well but I look up at the chart and they go, "There's 200 quests to Fallout 3's 100" and they're acting like 100 quests isn't awesome by itself.

Atmospheric as in, how? The destroyed washington DC? The metros? Random town with a bomb and town with slaves? I don't know if it's american thing, but seeing destroyed washington just made me say "meh", as it was nothing sort of surprising other than blocks of ruined towns over and over.

And the chart is not bullshit, if it would flat out lie, which it does not.

For me, I find Fallout 3 an incredibly effective experience and I still have dreams about the bombed out wasteland, shattered ruins, and pervasive sadness which affects the deserts. It's truly one of the best Fallout settings because it's one of the few which really brings home how much humanity has lost. Too much rebuilding in other games is something I've criticized that you can't take a moment to properly appreciate the horror of the Great War. Fallout 3 is full of reminders everywhere and the storytelling doesn't need characters or explanation. You get a huge amount just by going into an empty house and finding two skeletons in bed surrounded by Med-X or the scorch marks by an empty cradle or a teddy bear flapping in the wind.

I wonder really how many gamers on this board took time to really just wander around Fallout 3 soaking up the atmosphere and details versus just running from quest to quest.

It's a really sad and beautiful game.

 

[R.Graves]

they're acting like 100 quests isn't awesome by itself.

Iirc fallout 3 only has like 60 quests and when playing the game you run out fucking quick. Not to mention new vegas has twice as much content and it's of higher quality and it was made in less than half the time it took to make 3.

It's truly one of the best Fallout settings

They did fuck all with it. There's nothing happening and nothing to care about.

Too much rebuilding in other games

That was the entire thought process behind the series. How would we rebuild and what what come out of that. It wasn't to have everybody doing nothing and for everything to be hopeless.

Fallout 3 is full of reminders everywhere and the storytelling doesn't need characters or explanation

Dude fallout 3 is one of the most poorly thought out and poorly written pieces of garbage I've ever encountered. I'd love to see you try to form a coherent rebuttal to this guy:
https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085

You get a huge amount just by going into an empty house and finding two skeletons in bed surrounded by Med-X or the scorch marks by an empty cradle or a teddy bear flapping in the wind.

Not really. These would be cool images but this is not near storytelling.

I wonder really how many gamers on this board took time to really just wander around Fallout 3 soaking up the atmosphere

Fuck that's about all you can do to have fun in this mess. You hafta ignore the actual game and just mindlessly wander. Not exactly a mark of well written or well put together RPG.

It's a really sad and beautiful game.

It looks worse than oblivion and makes no sense. There's almost nothing of value in fallout 3 at all.

 

[CT Phipps]

Yeah, I disagree completely to the tune of you saying "the sky is wet"



Fallout 3 is awesome and anyone who can't appreciate it is just wrong.

 

[Valdetiosi]

For me, I find Fallout 3 an incredibly effective experience and I still have dreams about the bombed out wasteland, shattered ruins, and pervasive sadness which affects the deserts. It's truly one of the best Fallout settings because it's one of the few which really brings home how much humanity has lost. Too much rebuilding in other games is something I've criticized that you can't take a moment to properly appreciate the horror of the Great War. Fallout 3 is full of reminders everywhere and the storytelling doesn't need characters or explanation. You get a huge amount just by going into an empty house and finding two skeletons in bed surrounded by Med-X or the scorch marks by an empty cradle or a teddy bear flapping in the wind.

I wonder really how many gamers on this board took time to really just wander around Fallout 3 soaking up the atmosphere and details versus just running from quest to quest.

It's a really sad and beautiful game.

I took up my time alright, and there were few instances I remember something called "atmospheric". Mainly, the time I encountered those satelites with signals pleading help and that one room with rune goldberg device trap. I can't really remember anything, because it seems like there were only corridors filled with repeating looking walls and raiders/super mutants, that I barely remembered anything that was memorable from the level layout.

You want to know what game is atmospheric? STALKER. And that game accomplishes it with it's level layout. There are spots where anomalies burn/flatten/blow you up, so you pay attention to the spots. There's few buildings standing out from level to level that reeks out this was owned place once, now being habitated by people who try to scrape off in the zone. Heck, the developement team went out to the place to map out Chernobyl for their game, obviously scaling it down, but still giving out the sense of horror that Chernobyl pictures would provide as well.

So Fallout 3 being atmospheric falls out for me thrice in a row due to failing to bring me what makes the game shocking or sad.

 

[CT Phipps]

I took up my time alright, and there were few instances I remember something called "atmospheric". Mainly, the time I encountered those satelites with signals pleading help and that one room with rune goldberg device trap. I can't really remember anything, because it seems like there were only corridors filled with repeating looking walls and raiders/super mutants, that I barely remembered anything that was memorable from the level layout.

You want to know what game is atmospheric? STALKER. And that game accomplishes it with it's level layout. There are spots where anomalies burn/flatten/blow you up, so you pay attention to the spots. There's few buildings standing out from level to level that reeks out this was owned place once, now being habitated by people who try to scrape off in the zone. Heck, the developement team went out to the place to map out Chernobyl for their game, obviously scaling it down, but still giving out the sense of horror that Chernobyl pictures would provide as well.

So Fallout 3 being atmospheric falls out for me thrice in a row due to failing to bring me what makes the game shocking or sad.

I never played Stalker so I couldn't say. I will say I've rarely been as moved by a game as I have been by Fallout 3 and usually not in a positive way.

 

[Cobra Commander]

an opportunity to defend FO3?

CT Phipps must be feeling this way

 

[CT Phipps]

Still one of the best video game moments of all time.

 

[D Borous]

Still one of the best video game moments of all time.

The point of this thread wasn't exactly to debate the merits of Fallout 3, so I'll say only this.

Your appreciation for that moment and the game that gives moment like that are organic to your experience of playing the game for the first time, with likely diminishing returns. If you had never heard of Fallout, it's unlikely that being shown this moment would make you think of it as one of gaming's alltime greats. Therefore, it's unlikely you're going to be swaying many minds with such a statement yourself. Just saying.

 

[Alphons]

I still can't understand why they haven't went with nice round year 2100. All that stupid shit that is currently FO3 "lore" would snap ideally to that setting after some redesign (except for Zeta, but lets face it- it's Martians Attack! DLC). Sprinkle it with some more backstories (or even goals- what a madman I am!!!) for people and factions and we get something that at least can be compared to other games.

As it currently is FO3 is a story that doesn't make sense (even if we don't count most of the sidequests, main story, how karma works and Zeta).

 

[Valdetiosi]

I like how we have derailed the topic upon Bethesda saving the single player games to hear about Phipp's storytimes with Fallout 3.

 

[CT Phipps]

The point of this thread wasn't exactly to debate the merits of Fallout 3, so I'll say only this.

Your appreciation for that moment and the game that gives moment like that are organic to your experience of playing the game for the first time, with likely diminishing returns. If you had never heard of Fallout, it's unlikely that being shown this moment would make you think of it as one of gaming's alltime greats. Therefore, it's unlikely you're going to be swaying many minds with such a statement yourself. Just saying.

I'm well aware that convincing people Bethesda did a great job with Fallout 3 is a bit like Stephen Hawking's wife convincing him of religion's merits--no matter how much you love the guy, it's doomed to end in tears.

However, it is still my responsibility to talk about the fact Fallout 3 had an organic feel to it which really affected a lot of gamers. Myself included. It helped revitalize and even crystallize of not only Fallout but my love of the post-apocalypse genre myself. I managed to get a decent selling pair of novels out of the PA genre too so I owe the game a lot.

It made me appreciate things like atmosphere in gaming, wandering, and exploration in ways I hadn't before despite playing the original two.

 

[CT Phipps]

I like how we have derailed the topic upon Bethesda saving the single player games to hear about Phipp's storytimes with Fallout 3.

It can easily be summarized as I don't think anyone but perhaps me and one other person on this forum thinks Bethesda can create anything of any merit whatsoever.

The hatred is crystalized into an axiomatic hatred of everything they've done.

To argue about Bethesda saving single player, there would have to be an acknowledgement it would be possible for them to create a decent SP experience.

Which is a bridge too far on these forums.