Bethesda Shows Where Their Priorities Are (Patch 1.6 New)

[Irwin John Finster]

But Fallout 4 isn't like that. It's not about environmental storytelling through a variety of means to tell a range of stories; it's always skeletons doing something humorous or spending their last few moments drinking or something equally as boring and predictable.

Plus those skeletons are in ridiculous places. There's a lady who runs a diner and she just keeps skeletons sitting at the tables apparently.

They really didn't think about making a coherent game world at all, just a bunch of "lols randomz!" moments for the people that don't care about playing a Fallout RPG.

It depends on your build.

Lol your build doesn't matter in Fallout 4. There's no level cap and you can be 10 at everything just by listening to Preston Garvey tell you he's "got something a bit different for you this time" or other MMO quest. No skill checks also.

Speaking of, I've said this a million times before, but turning skills into perks was not a good idea. It basically means that when you level up, you're not getting stronger; every other enemy in the game is, and you can only keep up by picking relevant perks.

Yup. Your build doesn't matter in this game. Even if it did you are going to be 10 at all SPECIAL skills just from the MMO quests with no level cap. And no skill checks. It's pretending to be an RPG for people who hate Fallout RPGs.

 

[Millim]

I've always found the use of skeletons in the (Bethesda) Fallout games to be a missed opportunity.
Wouldn't it be creepier to wonder into a Hospital where there are skeletons chained to beds with notes on how the patient was being aggressive or so. And it's rooms full of beds where the patients were simply abounded.

The deeper you get into the building, you find notes on experimentation and such. It would give us a sense of what things were really like during the pre war, and completely recontexualise what we see in the pre war.

But nope, that's too deep for Bethesda

 

[mikek17]

I've always found the use of skeletons in the (Bethesda) Fallout games to be a missed opportunity.
Wouldn't it be creepier to wonder into a Hospital where there are skeletons chained to beds with notes on how the patient was being aggressive or so. And it's rooms full of beds where the patients were simply abounded.

The deeper you get into the building, you find notes on experimentation and such. It would give us a sense of what things were really like during the pre war, and completely recontexualise what we see in the pre war.

But nope, that's too deep for Bethesda

Bethesda thinks an automated dinner vending machine failing to operate 200 years after the war is "deep"

 

[Millim]

Bethesda thinks an automated dinner vending machine failing to operate 200 years after the war is "deep"

Will write Fallout 5 for a good game.

 

[Zyax]

>Quests are a matter of opinion

>Kid in a Fridge, Cabot House, and more.

Yup the infamous two, got anything else? Or should I bring up the ghosts in Fallout 2, the time travel quest, the giant talking stone head of the Vault Dweller, and more?

Bethesda fans already calling for Elder Scrolls and Fallout universes to be merged. If anything, they wouldn't just get away with it, they would make millions from horse armor crafting DLC for your Elf Mage in Fallout 6. And if you don't like it, well tough because "not interested in discussing realism in a post apoc game with talking zombies and fire mages"

That's a minority of fans, and if anything it would only be through easter eggs, and that one Pete Hines quote was said one time, years ago, and yet it is acted like it is the only thing he will ever think.

@Zyax

Fallout: New Vegas development time: 18 months

Fallout 4 development time: 84 months/7 years

Spoiler: Quest charts

View attachment 4362 View attachment 4363

Anyone can cherry pick examples, but there also isn't a doubt that NV was more varied. However; development time was not a huge factor in this, according to Chris Avellone, but the way toaster whatsit was talking about how enjoyable quests were, not the makeup.

Cash grabs and casualizations of series are the industry's bread and butter; they happen all the time. It's just a marketing strategy.
I think something that's universally recognized is that Bethesda has some hardships coming up with interesting perks. Most of the ones in Fallout 4 are either situational to the point of uselessness or just streamlined version of skills.
Speaking of, I've said this a million times before, but turning skills into perks was not a good idea. It basically means that when you level up, you're not getting stronger; every other enemy in the game is, and you can only keep up by picking relevant perks.
The gun mods aren't all that great, in my humble opinion; most of the later-level stuff is just better versions of other, more basic mods. It's just not very interesting.
Changing fire mode is kind of a null argument when you can only do it by finding a workbench; the mods may as well be separate weapons.
I'm sure the various employees that worked on the game did so with great conviction and effort. It's not them that are to blame; it's whomever was directing them.
I think that this was definitely the case in Fallout 3; though I still found it annoying that these skeletons lying around had been there for some 200 years and nobody had bothered to clean them up or nothing ever moved them, it was still a very nice and redeeming touch.
But Fallout 4 isn't like that. It's not about environmental storytelling through a variety of means to tell a range of stories; it's always skeletons doing something humorous or spending their last few moments drinking or something equally as boring and predictable.
The minecraft comparison is a hyperbole by nature; of course it isn't "Fallout Minecraft" (that game at least had a grip on what it wanted to be), but the fact that even people outside of this website are drawing the comparison speaks volumes about the general opinion on the settlement system.

I disagree, if you really look around, not all the skeletons are in "hilarious" positions, that's more of the ones found in odd corners and whatnot. That and there's more than skeletons, it's raiders speaking that can be completely missed (they're actually given character in this game versus most of the other games) The whole "only enemies get stronger" really isn't true, you can go the whole game without taking combat related perks and still kill in a relatively easy fashion. I too don't like the removal of skills, but skills could be implemented in a better way than they have been. And the gun mods are varied when you use them to compliment your build. In no game is it interesting if all you do is go for the highest damage, that won't ever be, and can't be avoided.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Yup the infamous two, got anything else?

How about literally every quest in the game?

That's a minority of fans, and if anything it would only be through easter eggs, and that one Pete Hines quote was said one time, years ago, and yet it is acted like it is the only thing he will ever think.

LOL.

Anyone can cherry pick examples

LOL.

I disagree, if you really look around, not all the skeletons are in "hilarious" positions, that's more of the ones found in odd corners and whatnot. That and there's more than skeletons, it's raiders speaking that can be completely missed (they're actually given character in this game versus most of the other games)

LOL. Thanks for the funnies.

 

[CerberusGate]

It depends on your build. You can increase your critical damage, weight management, damage and fire mode. You can argue that it's not as diverse, but the abilities to change the majority (of guns) over to your build is pretty nice. That and it is still rewarding to know which items are more worth picking up than others.

So... still no items that I can customize despite me asking you for an example of an item to customize to prove me wrong? Using a different line of argument to ignore my request? Cool, keep parroting the same excuses we've all heard in FO4's defense. I'm sure something will change around here...

When it comes to builds though, it's over-reliant on the new perk system and as @Brivoo points out, the new system is flawed since the perks are situational to the point of uselessness or just streamlined version of skills. Like many before me, the skill system being removed and replaced with the perk system was a bone-headed move since it makes taking those particular perks into a mandatory move lest you remain unable to unlock doors or terminals. Even you would have to admit that it was boneheaded since previous Fallout games handled skill allocation properly that even allowed for skill-checks in the right moments and encounters.

And no, it is not as rewarding as it used to be when acquiring items. I have so many Legendary items spawn that I can't lower the amount I possess. There are not as many good unique weapons in FO4 when compared to the modern Fallouts like New Vegas or even 3. I should be rewarded with something like the YCS/186 for exploring instead of relying on constantly Legendary Radroaches (or more accurately, Ghouls) for a shotgun with infinite ammo (that exists for some reason... Mind explaining that to me?)

Yup the infamous two, got anything else? Or should I bring up the ghosts in Fallout 2, the time travel quest, the giant talking stone head of the Vault Dweller, and more?

Now you're not even trying. The ghost can be argued in game to be a mad woman with a Stealth boy, the time travel quest and the giant talking stone head are non-canonical Easter eggs (which all encounters tend to be) plus those infamous two quests of FO4 do not make any sense based on the established lore alone. Besides Bethesda has gone further with lore breaking such as Jet no longer being a pre-War drug despite actually meeting the slimy git that made Jet in 2, the Resource Wars being rendered pointless since fusion cores were already a thing, pre-War life was idyllic despite constantly established proof (that 3 rolled with) to the contrary and more.

Also on the whole only enemies getting stronger, ever heard of level-scaling? Bethesda does it a lot. When you level up in a Bethesda game, it tends to make them stronger and have equivalent leveled gear to the player which makes sense on paper until you realize that you've been building the wrong build since you thought you could play as a diplomatic character who wants to build settlements in FO4 rather than a constantly crit-hitting gunman.

 

[Zyax]

So... still no items that I can customize despite me asking you for an example of an item to customize to prove me wrong? Using a different line of argument to ignore my request? Cool, keep parroting the same excuses we've all heard in FO4's defense. I'm sure something will change around here...

When it comes to builds though, it's over-reliant on the new perk system and as @Brivoo points out, the new system is flawed since the perks are situational to the point of uselessness or just streamlined version of skills. Like many before me, the skill system being removed and replaced with the perk system was a bone-headed move since it makes taking those particular perks into a mandatory move lest you remain unable to unlock doors or terminals. Even you would have to admit that it was boneheaded since previous Fallout games handled skill allocation properly that even allowed for skill-checks in the right moments and encounters.

And no, it is not as rewarding as it used to be when acquiring items. I have so many Legendary items spawn that I can't lower the amount I possess. There are not as many good unique weapons in FO4 when compared to the modern Fallouts like New Vegas or even 3. I should be rewarded with something like the YCS/186 for exploring instead of relying on constantly Legendary Radroaches (or more accurately, Ghouls) for a shotgun with infinite ammo (that exists for some reason... Mind explaining that to me?)

Now you're not even trying. The ghost can be argued in game to be a mad woman with a Stealth boy, the time travel quest and the giant talking stone head are non-canonical Easter eggs (which all encounters tend to be) plus those infamous two quests of FO4 do not make any sense based on the established lore alone. Besides Bethesda has gone further with lore breaking such as Jet no longer being a pre-War drug despite actually meeting the slimy git that made Jet in 2, the Resource Wars being rendered pointless since fusion cores were already a thing, pre-War life was idyllic despite constantly established proof (that 3 rolled with) to the contrary and more.

Also on the whole only enemies getting stronger, ever heard of level-scaling? Bethesda does it a lot. When you level up in a Bethesda game, it tends to make them stronger and have equivalent leveled gear to the player which makes sense on paper until you realize that you've been building the wrong build since you thought you could play as a diplomatic character who wants to build settlements in FO4 rather than a constantly crit-hitting gunman.

I've given examples, you're just are ignoring them. Making a weapon built for criticals, that would otherwise be useless to another type isn't any evidence? Ok, what about weight optimization for survival mode, again I guess that's nothing because it isn't interesting enough. Different receivers and barrels on most weapons to specialize how you want them to be must not be customization to you. Plus I'm not trying to change minds, it's a waste of time here on this, or any other, echo chamber.

I've said it before that I don't agree with the change in the perks/skills system, so not sure why you're trying to act like you're saying I think it's a good idea.

There are guaranteed weapons with great legendary effects in the game that are constants, though I also would prefer a NV or 3 system where legendaries aren't a thing.

See the problem with all that is there isn't a way she's a mad old woman, because stealth boys run out, but sure. And they might be non-canonical, but I would argue they change the game too much by either giving you a large dump of xp or loot, which is kinda annoying. Plus the huge heard of exploding brhamin for no reason is annoying as hell. I don't like the Kid in the fridge or the Cabots any better than anyone else, and I was one of the first among my friends to criticize them. But the whole "ruining NV" even mentioning the Mojave is a huge exaggeration to say the least. Even if Jack is correct, it literally changes fuck all in NV. And prewar life was no idealistic, as revealed by the opening cut-scene, and the fact that dozens of people were denied entry due to something as trivial as "not being on a list". Plus the post war exploration reveals that the resource wars were taking huge tolls on daily life for Americans, with rationing and corruption, which is a staple in the Fallout (and probably our own) universe.

There is no "wrong build" because you can always: run away, fight off enemies, or get help one way or another. Yeah I have hear of enemy scaling, and I know how it works, I've just never run into an issue that I wasn't able to handle even when I do non-combat oriented characters.

How about literally every quest in the game?
LOL.LOL.LOL. Thanks for the funnies.

See I like giving the benefit of the doubt, but it seems you're just one of "those" kinds of people. Peace.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

See I like giving the benefit of the doubt, but it seems you're just one of "those" kinds of people. Peace.

No I'm being quite serious. What you've said is genuinely the most hilarious thing I've read in a while. Seriously, thanks for the laughs. I needed that.

That was some seriously quality bait. Not like the other low quality stuff I usually see around here.

Now you're not even trying.

Gotta give credit for trying more than Bethesda did with Fallout 4. Unfortunately no amount of rationalization is going to make the game any less of a lazy cash grab disappointment that was made for everyone EXCEPT Fallout fans.

 

[CerberusGate]

I've given examples, YOU'RE JUST IGNORING THEM.

FTFY. Firstly, Get your sentence structure right...

I asked for an item that is fully customization in terms of parameters. I asked for a specific item so if you could mention a weapon mod I could build and customize (like changing it's parameters to alter its effects like changing up the amount of radiation needed to start regeneration etc.), I would have conceded but you went out and accused me of something else so I'm calling you out there. Don't go twisting my words here by arguing about building weapons and then claim I'm ignoring them. As for weight optimization, I don't recall that ever being relevant since I did not touch vanilla survival mode here so me not acknowledging it is because I have not glanced back at the game ever since I tried it out, so next time clarify what you meant by it or I'll simply ignore it. As for barrels and receivers, I concede that is customization but it's basic gun customization and the only first good step in FO4 (which several other games have already beaten them to though so I won't give Beth credit for such an idea).

As for not wanting to change minds, you've gone out of your way to discuss the merits of Bethesda's FO4 while making snide remarks at people who argue otherwise when instead, all you could have done is to use the phrase "Let's agree to disagree" to stop all this and let it all slide so I'm calling you out there for fibbing about not trying to change minds here.

As for the skills thing, you gave off the impression that you were being apathetic about it so I responded harshly since I dislike apathy more than blind praise. At least blind praise marks one in a particular way.

As for loot and XP from those encounters, fair enough. They do give items and XP but the game is rather difficult at times so you do need those things at times. I still remember the number of times an imaginary purple robe had saved in 2 from a lucky hit. From that point, I see the rewards as being a helping hand to get through the early levels (since trying to slaughter the slavers at Metzger's base with low level gear is next to impossible).

As for level-scaling, it's still a problem since enemies are still becoming bullet sponges rather than actually becoming progressively weaker due to your growing skill or becoming smarter to counter your growing skill.

Have fun looking for a place that is not an echo chamber out there. It's become more of a rarity.

 

[mikek17]

There is no "wrong build" because you can always: run away, fight off enemies, or get help one way or another. Yeah I have hear of enemy scaling, and I know how it works, I've just never run into an issue that I wasn't able to handle even when I do non-combat oriented characters.

This is why FarCryOut 4 is casual. You CANNOT fail. You cannot lose quest. No matter how retarded your character is you can still be the savior of the waste
(also when I say "retarded" I am not referring to a character with 3 or less INT, so don't twist my words and say "durrr you can beat Fallout 2 with a retarded character". Bethesda doesn't realize that if I'm playing a retarded character it's because I'm actually dedicated to role-playing a moron.)

 

[Deleted member 98605]

This is why FarCryOut 4 is casual. You CANNOT fail. You cannot lose quest. No matter how retarded your character is you can still be the savior of the waste
(also when I say "retarded" I am not referring to a character with 3 or less INT, so don't twist my words and say "durrr you can beat Fallout 2 with a retarded character". Bethesda doesn't realize that if I'm playing a retarded character it's because I'm actually dedicated to role-playing a moron.)

I have to disagree a bit. In every game, you become the hero of the wastes. In nearly every game which has existed, you could never really lose.

Fallout 1: Master's army destroys everything, eventually even the vault. It did take a weird long while, around two years, but it could happen. Necropolis especially got the boot a lot of the time. But, they did eliminate this basically and also with 2 you couldn't lose the game without closing it and never returning to it.

This compares to Xcom 1994, where if the Aliens sign a pact with enough nations or destroy your bases, you can lose, but even this was buggy at times and a player would have to like, put one base in Antarctica or Hawaii for this to happen. And we all know by Xcom EU, you had to try to fail the SOLE base invasion mission with the technical possibility of too many nations running off.

Just sayin', most games are rather lenient. What they do differ in is how difficult it is to reach the victory screen, than the ability to 'lose'.

 

[Zyax]

FTFY. Firstly, Get your sentence structure right...

I asked for an item that is fully customization in terms of parameters. I asked for a specific item so if you could mention a weapon mod I could build and customize (like changing it's parameters to alter its effects like changing up the amount of radiation needed to start regeneration etc.), I would have conceded but you went out and accused me of something else so I'm calling you out there. Don't go twisting my words here by arguing about building weapons and then claim I'm ignoring them. As for weight optimization, I don't recall that ever being relevant since I did not touch vanilla survival mode here so me not acknowledging it is because I have not glanced back at the game ever since I tried it out, so next time clarify what you meant by it or I'll simply ignore it. As for barrels and receivers, I concede that is customization but it's basic gun customization and the only first good step in FO4 (which several other games have already beaten them to though so I won't give Beth credit for such an idea).

As for not wanting to change minds, you've gone out of your way to discuss the merits of Bethesda's FO4 while making snide remarks at people who argue otherwise when instead, all you could have done is to use the phrase "Let's agree to disagree" to stop all this and let it all slide so I'm calling you out there for fibbing about not trying to change minds here.

As for the skills thing, you gave off the impression that you were being apathetic about it so I responded harshly since I dislike apathy more than blind praise. At least blind praise marks one in a particular way.

As for loot and XP from those encounters, fair enough. They do give items and XP but the game is rather difficult at times so you do need those things at times. I still remember the number of times an imaginary purple robe had saved in 2 from a lucky hit. From that point, I see the rewards as being a helping hand to get through the early levels (since trying to slaughter the slavers at Metzger's base with low level gear is next to impossible).

As for level-scaling, it's still a problem since enemies are still becoming bullet sponges rather than actually becoming progressively weaker due to your growing skill or becoming smarter to counter your growing skill.

Have fun looking for a place that is not an echo chamber out there. It's become more of a rarity.

I never gave them credit for the idea, just the implementation into their game, because it makes sense. (also in walls of text I make a mistake, sue me (well like please don't actually sue me, I don't have money(ok I do have money but like not enough to be sued over, I've got imaginary kids to feed))).

I'm not changing minds, or trying to. I see someone that disagrees with me, I will offer a point that I believe, then I rarely get anything but snide remarks around here, so I give them back. Especially from tonkaguy and toastermcguffin. It doesn't matter to me someone doesn't agree with me, and it shouldn't. I'm all for agreeing to disagree, I also just like actual debates.

A person isn't any worse off for being apathetic to certain things. There aren't a huge amount of advantages I've seen in skills, but it is still a better system than what they tried in Fallout 4, namely because if you do it right you just might be able to significantly advance two or even three skills in one level. If either system was implemented better, I would be indifferent to them. I personally find blind praise annoying, whether someone is on my side or not.

But with your example, you shouldn't even try at low levels, unless you do want to die, though I do disagree in that they're particularly hard games, they just have a higher learning curve than the 3d games.

I'll give you that the enemy scaling may seem unfair at times, but I don't recall a time in the main story line where the enemies are too tough (except the very end, though i do wish they would be stronger sometimes)

And I don't really go looking for echo chambers, they are everywhere sadly.

This is why FarCryOut 4 is casual. You CANNOT fail. You cannot lose quest. No matter how retarded your character is you can still be the savior of the waste
(also when I say "retarded" I am not referring to a character with 3 or less INT, so don't twist my words and say "durrr you can beat Fallout 2 with a retarded character". Bethesda doesn't realize that if I'm playing a retarded character it's because I'm actually dedicated to role-playing a moron.)

I mean, in every game you end of saving the wasteland though, somehow (I guess except in 1, but arguably under The Masters rule things might not be terrible, maybe)

 

[Irwin John Finster]

This is why FarCryOut 4 is casual. You CANNOT fail. You cannot lose quest.

This seems to have been by deliberate design of Bethesda. They seem to want you to play 99% of the quests in a single playthrough regardless of character build or "choices" (which are pretty much non-existent anyway).

They seem to hate the idea that RPG means *role-playing* a character that cannot be the biggest, strongest, smartest, greatest person in the entire world. So instead you end up head of the Skyrim Mages guild even if you're not a Mage, and you end up the leader of pretty much EVERYTHING in Fallout 4 for no reason.

And SPECIAL stats are now meaningless. No skill checks. Nothing. Just a lame charisma check that doesn't even tell you the percent chance of success or requirement - just a childish color choice. Might as well eliminate dialogue altogether and replace it with "happy face" or "frowny face."

So what you end up with is a game made by people who hate RPGs, made for people who hate RPGs. At least Codsworth can say 100000000000 names though!

 

[CerberusGate]

A person isn't any worse off for being apathetic to certain things. There aren't a huge amount of advantages I've seen in skills, but it is still a better system than what they tried in Fallout 4, namely because if you do it right you just might be able to significantly advance two or even three skills in one level. If either system was implemented better, I would be indifferent to them. I personally find blind praise annoying, whether someone is on my side or not.

But with your example, you shouldn't even try at low levels, unless you do want to die, though I do disagree in that they're particularly hard games, they just have a higher learning curve than the 3d games.

Apathy in the face of issues like downgrading is still rather bad though. It's apathy to critique that creates problems in products that face critique so I dislike it even more than blind praise since at least the latter can be factored out. As said once in a competently written Obsidian game:

I will point out that I did beat Metzger and his slavers thanks to items and XP from random encounters, some strategic planning and getting critical hits so it is feasible to try on lower difficulties, not that it makes it easier. Plus it was my first playthrough and I was not sure if I could return to Metzger fast enough before the third Hakunin vision. I disagree on the difficulty though since there is some early game hell to the games (especially Fallout 2) that fades as you grow stronger like in the Baldur's Gate saga. It's more of a case of both early game difficulty and learning curve.

I mean, in every game you end of saving the wasteland though, somehow (I guess except in 1, but arguably under The Masters rule things might not be terrible, maybe)

I'll give you this. The Master's rule may be a good thing since everyone here will be fellow Super Mutants of similar status though not for long since said mutants are sterile despite their constant spawning in FO3 and FO4. So we'll all be extinct anyways.

 

[Zyax]

Apathy in the face of issues like downgrading is still rather bad though. It's apathy to critique that creates problems in products that face critique so I dislike it even more than blind praise since at least the latter can be factored out. As said once in a competently written Obsidian game:

I will point out that I did beat Metzger and his slavers thanks to items and XP from random encounters, some strategic planning and getting critical hits so it is feasible to try on lower difficulties, not that it makes it easier. Plus it was my first playthrough and I was not sure if I could return to Metzger fast enough before the third Hakunin vision. I disagree on the difficulty though since there is some early game hell to the games (especially Fallout 2) that fades as you grow stronger like in the Baldur's Gate saga. It's more of a case of both early game difficulty and learning curve.


I'll give you this. The Master's rule may be a good thing since everyone here will be fellow Super Mutants of similar status though not for long since said mutants are sterile despite their constant spawning in FO3 and FO4. So we'll all be extinct anyways.

I just don't personally find it to be too hard, once you know what you're doing. Believe me the first time I played Fallout 1 I got destroyed time and time and time again, to the point of frustration, but after a while I figured out how I wanted to play, and how to allocate my SPECIAL accordingly, and then restarted and the rest was not too bad (except the fight against the master which kept glitching on me). I will concede that Fallout 2 is much more difficult at the start though, but it does have a lot more things to do, so leveling happens slightly faster, in my experience.

So have we reached some kind of agreement?

 

[CerberusGate]

I just don't personally find it to be too hard, once you know what you're doing. Believe me the first time I played Fallout 1 I got destroyed time and time and time again, to the point of frustration, but after a while I figured out how I wanted to play, and how to allocate my SPECIAL accordingly, and then restarted and the rest was not too bad (except the fight against the master which kept glitching on me). I will concede that Fallout 2 is much more difficult at the start though, but it does have a lot more things to do, so leveling happens slightly faster, in my experience.

So have we reached some kind of agreement?

I guess so. Let's agree to disagree on the merits (or lack of IMO) of FO4. I (and probably the rest of NMA) will keep on deservedly bashing Fallout 4 by harping on FO4's problems and flaws (with optional evidence to back our claims) to counter balance the irritatingly vocal members of 4's fanbase on this particular side of the Internet. You'll probably keep arguing for 4's sake but it's not a big deal for me at least. I'm already used to the rationalization when it comes to 4.

 

[mikek17]

I guess so. Let's agree to disagree on the merits (or lack of IMO) of FO4. I (and probably the rest of NMA) will keep on deservedly bashing Fallout 4 by harping on FO4's problems and flaws (with optional evidence to back our claims) to counter balance the irritatingly vocal members of 4's fanbase on this particular side of the Internet. You'll probably keep arguing for 4's sake but it's not a big deal for me at least. I'm already used to the rationalization when it comes to 4.

Reminds me of this
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:OWBending_X-8_NotRepeated.ogg
it's a never-ending cycle...

 

[Black Angel]

All forms of art are derivative. Just because they didn't do something so outlandishly different, it is no longer a work of effort?.

Like Brivoo mentioned, they probably did had effort. But whoever the fuck directed them obviously too lazy to consider if they fit well with the rest of the game or not.

• Shooting mechanics? Credits to id Software.
• Settlements? I've seen the Sims/Minecraft/etc etc did it better. Fuck, the only time it supposedly tied to the rest of the game was when you build a teleporter to the Institute. Meanwhile, those mods for New Vegas even had quests to tie the modded in settlement system with the rest of the gameworld.
• Crafting system? I've seen and experienced Underrail did it much, much better.
• 'Environmental storytelling'? Meh, the Soulsborne games did it better. Fuck, Fallout 1 with the Glow had better environmental storytelling especially since it tied very well with the rest of the setting despite being arguably optional.
• Writing department? Please. Emil's is shit, and to say otherwise only means you haven't played much games with good writings. Although, some of the terminals and holotapes arguably had better writings than most of the dialogue, hell even Far Harbor admittedly much better in this part. Holy fuck, whoever wrote those terminals about the dumbing down of the Silver Shroud (like some here had said) need to replace Emil ASAP.

I'm not saying it's not okay for Bethesda to do what others did, but when it was so half-assed in terms of being completely out of place and seemed like it went against each other, you know there's something wrong, especially with their creative director.

Yup the infamous two, got anything else? Or should I bring up the ghosts in Fallout 2, the time travel quest, the giant talking stone head of the Vault Dweller, and more?

See, this is one of the major stupid ass excuse that really baffles me. Just because there was stupidity in the past games, doesn't excuse them to repeat it in future iterations.

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT, PEOPLE. REMEMBER THAT.

If anything, it's actually in Bethesda's responsibility to see through that those kind of dumbfuckedshit to be removed from the newer games. New Vegas showed them how to deal with wacky and dumb shit, made them optional through traits.

Holy fuck, Kid in the Fridge was probably the most offending stuff because right in New Vegas it was made fun of through the use of Wild Wasteland, so it's obviously non-canon, and then they just made them a full-fledged side-quest, completely ignoring the established canon of the originals AND EVEN THEIR OWN. That's far, far more stupid than the accumulation of wacky stuff from the past games.

I have to disagree a bit. In every game, you become the hero of the wastes. In nearly every game which has existed, you could never really lose.

Fallout 1: Master's army destroys everything, eventually even the vault. It did take a weird long while, around two years, but it could happen. Necropolis especially got the boot a lot of the time. But, they did eliminate this basically and also with 2 you couldn't lose the game without closing it and never returning to it.

And in New Vegas, it wasn't about winning or losing. Hell, go through this site's subforum for New Vegas discussion, and you can see people still discussing which factions were the best for the Mojave/Post-Nuclear America. New Vegas showed us that the game doesn't always have to be about being the Hero of the Wastes, yet Bethesda repeated the generic search for family member.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Yup the infamous two, got anything else?

I would but Bethesda forgot to add more handcrafted quests and put in radiant "Another settlement needs your help" quests instead.

Or should I bring up the ghosts in Fallout 2, the time travel quest, the giant talking stone head of the Vault Dweller, and more?

See the difference here is that I see how Fallout 2 has a ton of flaws and I disliked the stuff you were pointing out in it. I didn't care for all the references and pop culture in it.

On the Bethesdian Fallout side of thing you have boring ass level scaling so there's no places with enemies that can wipe the floor with you in dangerous places and you have fucking molerats your level. You don't feel progression(unless plunking that 70th perk point is "progress), there's no proper skill system, characters are fucking boring and one dimensional, nothing really makes sense either.

I could go on but everybody has been giving good reasons why this game is a steaming pile so I'm not going to keep repeating what they say. If you can't realize that this game is an absolutely awful brain fart then I don't know what to tell ya and I already acknowledged that Fallout is dead so I'm not going to argue further this this shit.