Bethesda Shows Where Their Priorities Are (Patch 1.6 New)

[whirlingdervish]

Easter eggs are not the same as these "issues" that you are claiming on.

The vast majority of "issues" with Fallout 2 are just ways that it slightly diverged in the level of seriousness from the setting of the first game, and most of them like the mob families of New Reno were still giving us good gameplay value while being marginally outside of the norm, not entirely whacky bullshit like ancient aliens or vampire/jesus blood in an actual quest with other human NPCs involved.

Most of the pop cultural references you're talking about are easter eggs and the ones that aren't are not vital to the storyline quests in any way.

There are tons of serious quests in Fallout 2 that treat the setting/world correctly, and a handful of easter eggs and a few "issues" with the overall feel in certain areas. The ratio of one to the other is ridiculous when compared to Fallout 4, which has a handful of actual quests most of which are absolutely unfallouty trash and everywhere else it's just crapping on the setting from undermining the narrative of the prewar USA and the order of events that led to the war, to the motivations of entire postwar factions etc.

You've equated these "issues" multiple times now, and if you persist in doing so when people tell you that they are not the same thing, then it looks like you're dense or trolling or both.

The bulk of the issues in Fallout 4 are huge glaring ones that show an utter disrespect for the world and the fans. There are relatively few instances where Fallout 4 has a quest that could even be called good, or that added anything to the existing world/setting that wasn't nonsensical.

The bulk of the issues in Fallout 2 were stylistic divergence from the first one, and in most cases minimal ones that while they could have been handled better, still made some sense and were enjoyable and added to the world. They are contrasted against a ton of good quests and world building.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I don't know how many time's I'm going to have to repeat myself but: I do not think that because the previous games had silly, whacky, or annoying things in them is an excuse or a justification for those two quests. I only bring them up as: every single game, even the one most often regarded as "best Fallout" have had issues. They should learn from their mistakes and try to improve upon them, but I also think those two things are different issues, one has a few bad quests that contradict cannon, the other has an excessive amount of pop-culture bs that it beats you over the head with, and easter eggs that do too much.

Then simply stop to mention them. It's not like as we wouldn't know about those issues. I don't remember every single post in this topic, but I would say no on here ever ignored that with either Fallout 2 or even 1. Point is, when we talk about Fallout 4 and criticising it as Fallout game, why is that even relevant?

What we really ignore here, is the Elephant in the room. That Fallout 4, simply put, is not really an RPG anymore. And even if you don't agree with that assessment, there is one thing to think about. I never saw someone make the serious criticism that Fallout 1 or 2 are not RPGs. That would be absolutely ludicrous. But, Fallout 4 is pretty much the first serious Fallout game where you see people discussing what ever if F4 is still an RPG or not, even by some that see it as a very fun game for it self. Imagine that ...

 

[Deeves]

Here're the difference about those things in Fallout 2 and Fallout 4. Those were the only times Fallout 2 broke character and let themselves in on the joke that this is all a tad ridiculous. Meanwhile, Fallout 4 is so in on the joke grinning ear to ear about it at all times to the point of obnoxiousness.

'Oooh! Look! Alien spaceships! Psionics with occult artifacts! Evil scientists with a robot army! Magical ghouls that live forever! Fallout sure is a riot, isn't it?'

 

[Earth]

the other has an excessive amount of pop-culture bs that it beats you over the head with, and easter eggs that do too much.

Geez, way to be a buzzkill. You must be fun at parties.

 

[CerberusGate]

most of them like the mob families of New Reno were still giving us good gameplay value while being marginally outside of the norm, not entirely whacky bullshit like ancient aliens or vampire/jesus blood in an actual quest with other human NPCs involved.

I always presumed that the mob families arose once post-apocalyptic civilization recovered from its early days and expanded (though one way to counter the ridiculous notion of mobsters in a post-apocalyptic world like Fallout was to probably make a big time-skip between 1 and 2). Incidentally, anyone else remember the Yakuza gangs near New Reno? I always wondered where their base was since they scoured the outskirts of New Reno (and I kept running into them in an old playthrough).

Just to detract from Zyax's inability to debate without sounding like a troll, is there any news about Bethesda trying to fix the problems of the new patch, namely that it rendered the Unofficial Patch useless due to a particular glitch that broke the patch?

 

[Zyax]

Just to detract from Zyax's inability to debate without sounding like a troll, is there any news about Bethesda trying to fix the problems of the new patch, namely that it rendered the Unofficial Patch useless due to a particular glitch that broke the patch?

And I'M the snide one.

 

[CerberusGate]

And I'M the snide one.

Aw... you finally admit it.

Well you've gone out of your way to be snide from your first post on this thread and gone even further to reply to everyone else in a snide and particularly hostile way. Since you're calling me out on being somewhat rude to your hostile tone, I'll call you out for plugging your ears to what everyone has been hammering into you in the same tone you've taken with them.

 

[Zyax]

"Aw... you finally admit it."

Well you've gone out of your way to be snide from your first post on this thread and gone even further to reply to everyone else in a snide and particularly hostile way. Since you're calling me out on being somewhat rude to your hostile tone, I'll call you out for plugging your ears to what everyone has been hammering into you in the same tone you've taken with them.

That's how and 8 year old argues.

anyways, I originally was bringing up that there were bug fixes and what not in this patch, not just the added names. And I take what I'm given, since I get called some very colorful things for just holding a different opinion than the mainstream on this website. In fact only about three or four people on this whole site have been, well, outright nice.

 

[CerberusGate]

That's how and 8 year old argues.

anyways, I originally was bringing up that there were bug fixes and what not in this patch, not just the added names. And I take what I'm given, since I get called some very colorful things for just holding a different opinion than the mainstream on this website. In fact only about three or four people on this whole site have been, well, outright nice.

Have you ever considered the notion that YOUR own inability to concede points without sounding insincere or YOU seemingly attempting to disregard people who present ideas and notions all because YOU don't agree with them that makes them insult you? A different opinion is fine and all but you're being pretentious about it by disregarding their opinions with short snide statements and being unable to concede points. Diplomacy is the word here and you don't want to bother trying since you reach for the jabs whenever you feel your position is threatened rather than giving ground to keep debates going.

In fact, I am bringing up a point about something this patch broke before you replied. The patch broke the Unofficial Patch for the game so any updates on a fix?

 

[Zyax]

Have you ever considered the notion that YOUR own inability to concede points without sounding insincere or YOU seemingly attempting to disregard people who present ideas and notions all because YOU don't agree with them that makes them insult you? A different opinion is fine and all but you're being pretentious about it by disregarding their opinions with short snide statements and being unable to concede points. Diplomacy is the word here and you don't have it since you reach for the jabs whenever you feel your position is threatened rather than giving ground to keep debates civil and more focused.

In fact, I am bringing up a point about something this patch broke before you replied. The patch broke the Unofficial Patch for the game so any updates on a fix?

I've just presented a point of view, unpopular as it may be, and have no quarrel with dissent. I haven't actually told anybody "you are wrong here is why". I can't be acting pretentious if I don't present myself as being more important or more correct, and if you take my concessions are as insincere that's your problem. I agree to disagree, then get a backhanded "you're wrong but whatever" deal.

As for the patch, I mean I'm not a coder, but don't updates often cause issues with such comprehensive mods? Especially when they may be attempting to address the same issues. I haven't actually used the unofficial patch so I wouldn't be sure on what has broken.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

In fact, I am bringing up a point about something this patch broke before you replied. The patch broke the Unofficial Patch for the game so any updates on a fix?

Updates have been breaking mods and patches for this game since it released. Nothing new here.

And remember what they said, if you're not modding the game using their tools, then it's not modding, it's "hacking." I imagine their feelings towards unofficial patches are the same.

 

[CerberusGate]

I agree to disagree, then get a backhanded "you're wrong but whatever" deal.

Well, you did the same to me several times so that makes us even on that front.


EDIT: Reading through this thread just to remember what the original complaint was, I found what you meant by backhanded. Just to be clear, in that post I was simply pointing out what you'll probably go through on this site (and are current going through) by defending FO4 (and being so sensitive that you regard seemingly harsh words as actual hostility and responding in kind), I was not saying you were wrong for trying to defend. But you got, for lack of a more accurate term, butt-hurt by my choice of phrases and choose to be snide about it rather than accepting the intent of my concession.

Updates have been breaking mods and patches for this game since it released. Nothing new here.
And remember what they said, if you're not modding the game using their tools, then it's not modding, it's "hacking."

Okay, thanks for the clarification (shame about Unofficial Patch though since it was probably needed to make the game somewhat bug free) and oh right... I think I remember that statement. Was that another Hines tweet or statement?

 

[Irwin John Finster]

See I like giving the benefit of the doubt, but it seems you're just one of "those" kinds of people. Peace.

That's how and 8 year old argues.

And I'M the snide one.

So much lols.

Okay, thanks for the clarification (shame about Unofficial Patch though since it was probably needed to make the game somewhat bug free) and oh right... I think I remember that statement. Was that another Hines tweet or statement?

Yea he apparently said that.

I'd speculate it was said because they're trying to make "mods" an official part of their business (paid mods) and are trying to associate the word "mods" with their official tools or some crap like that and anything else is not labeled a "mod."

 

[Shardik]

As for the patch, I mean I'm not a coder, but don't updates often cause issues with such comprehensive mods? Especially when they may be attempting to address the same issues. I haven't actually used the unofficial patch so I wouldn't be sure on what has broken.

It's a lot worse than that. Here's a thread linked to earlier by CerberusGate that describes the problems with the unofficial patch - it gets pretty technical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMod...sa_unofficial_fallout_4_patch_ufo4p_takes_an/

The upshot is, the problems are engine related, and unless Bethesda actually addresses them (and given their past track record, that's not likely at all to happen), the entire unofficial patch project may be dead. As may be a lot of mods that touch the settlement/workshop system, where must of the bugs are in the first place.

So why is Bethesda making a huge deal about console modding, while at the same time making it harder and harder for mod authors to actually do their jobs? You can't make new animations any more without expensive third-party software that most MAs can't afford, apparently you can't edit meshes, so those rocks and trees floating three feet off the ground can't be fixed, and now this. And that doesn't even touch the other modding issues that FO4 gives them, such as the voiced protagonist making it almost impossible to make any quests that use player dialog.

 

[Izak]

In fact only about three or four people on this whole site have been, well, outright nice.

Out of curiosity, who?

 

[Deleted member 93956]

@Zyax Am i nice? :3

 

[0wing]

Oh, nice. Only though to check how the game behaviours with new patches and DLCs and bethestards broke their game. When lore inconsistencies pales into insignificance and terrible technical and gameplay problems comes in, F4 fails as a game in general, not only as Fallout. Oh, and modding now have so many restrictions and hidden mines, F4 fails as a bethesdard's game. Noice.

 

[Risewild]

It's a lot worse than that. Here's a thread linked to earlier by CerberusGate that describes the problems with the unofficial patch - it gets pretty technical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMod...sa_unofficial_fallout_4_patch_ufo4p_takes_an/

The upshot is, the problems are engine related, and unless Bethesda actually addresses them (and given their past track record, that's not likely at all to happen), the entire unofficial patch project may be dead. As may be a lot of mods that touch the settlement/workshop system, where must of the bugs are in the first place.

So why is Bethesda making a huge deal about console modding, while at the same time making it harder and harder for mod authors to actually do their jobs? You can't make new animations any more without expensive third-party software that most MAs can't afford, apparently you can't edit meshes, so those rocks and trees floating three feet off the ground can't be fixed, and now this. And that doesn't even touch the other modding issues that FO4 gives them, such as the voiced protagonist making it almost impossible to make any quests that use player dialog.

I doubt Bethesda will fix that because of their Occlusion System. Mods will not fix it either because that would require actual engine hacks, and I doubt anyone would be remotely interested in spending the time and effort doing it for FO4.
About restricting modders so much when in the past they didn't... It is all because they want console modding, and they have to restrict what modders can mod so it still runs on consoles... You all saw what happened when console modding wasn't even supported and people were already demanding mods that could not run on consoles to be made for consoles. Bethesda restrictions all seem aimed at allowing easy modding of console supported things, while trying to limit stuff that would only be possible on PC. I bet Bethesda would love to somehow shutdown F4SE, but if they did that the backlash would be even bigger than the one from paid modding I would say.
Of course this is all what I think, I do not have any proof or anything to support it.

 

[0wing]

It is all because they want console modding, and they have to restrict what modders can mod so it still runs on consoles...

Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 (a PS3!! in 2007-09!) supported mods created using UnrealEd and UnrealScript, so... Not gonna work in their defence.

 

[Risewild]

Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 (a PS3!! in 2007-09!) supported mods created using UnrealEd and UnrealScript, so... Not gonna work in their defence.

Oh they have no defense at all. What they are doing is ridiculous and restricting modders is just like shooting themselves on the foot. The first nail in their modding community coffin.