Bethesda Softworks Announces Creation Kit and DLC

[Patton89]

Not really, sorry. The explanation given in the bible does a good job to validate cars as a part of Fallout canon whether you'd like to consider the bible itself "canon" or not.

Do you know that you just said a sentence that makes almost no sense ? So, it really doesn't matter if i start making my own explanations for the things in the game as long as they sound good, even if they contradict with the story and setting created by earlier games ? Sure the bible is nice, but some parts don't make sense within the context of the original games.

Edit: no double posts please.

 

[gothfox]

They should have outsorced the Anchorage thing to some company actually proficient with making shooters as a separate spinoff.

Anything involving "action" and packing thereof is not Bethesda's strong point (to say the least) and therefore is destined to turn out boring, stupid and looking borderline ridiculous.

So, it really doesn't matter if i start making my own explanations for the things in the game as long as they sound good, even if they contradict with the story and setting created by earlier games ?

Really? Could you please elaborate on how does the explanation given contradict the story or the setting?

Sure the bible is nice, but some parts don't make sense within the context of the original games.

I'd ask you to provide examples (which can't be explained by original games being self-contradictory), but this is getting way too OT.

Don't doublepost --MG

 

[Rad Blaggard]

They should have outsorced the Anchorage thing to some company actually proficient with making shooters as a separate spinoff.

Anything involving "action" and packing thereof is not Bethesda's strong point (to say the least) and therefore is destined to turn out boring, stupid and looking borderline ridiculous.

I'll go ya a step further and would like to see that plus make it a multiplayer shooter.

 

[gothfox]

Rad Blaggard

Yep, something like R2 coop could've been great for story mode. Shame we'll never see this because of apparent NIH syndrome at Bethesda.

 

[Patton89]

So, it really doesn't matter if i start making my own explanations for the things in the game as long as they sound good, even if they contradict with the story and setting created by earlier games ?

Really? Could you please elaborate on how does the explanation given contradict the story or the setting?

Sure the bible is nice, but some parts don't make sense within the context of the original games.

I'd ask you to provide examples (which can't be explained by original games being self-contradictory), but this is getting way too OT.

Well the lack of resources to say one thing, how do they manufacture these cars, if even pre war factories had trouble doing so before the nuclear holocaust ? On what do they run on ? Oil , energy cells ? both of those are limited supply, and oil is simply non existant in california by the time of Fallout 2. Even if they ran on wood, again, where would they get all the metals, or knowledge how to build them ? The machining tools ?

Quote: Instead of being a definitive, unambiguous guide to Fallout, Avellone's FOB became a sort of long question and answer session with fans emailing reams of queries to him and getting answers. Avellone would also usually toss in interesting bits of information about the games and original design documents. This was all right, really, as it was still an interesting read for the fans and provided all kinds of information about the game world. However, Avellone did make mistakes here, many of which were corrected in later issues of the Bible thanks to fan feedback. So it might depend on the version i am using...as it has some inconsistancies and its old one. NCR flag was one mistake, he had it with one headed bear instead of the two headed one. You can find the lelectronic version at duck and cover.

 

[gothfox]

Well the lack of resources to say one thing, how do they manufacture these cars, if even pre war factories had trouble doing so before the nuclear holocaust ?

I think it's more of a maintenance thing. Maintenance seems viable enough. The people were able to maintain quite a lot of different equipment after all. The engines on some cars might've been adapted to work on something like biodiesel. People are creative and, well, cars can even run on steam.

The setting doesn't really answer this, but you can't ignore the evidence it provides either - like the car tuning shop in New Reno. It would be pointless to establish something like that for one car, which just happened to belong to the Chosen One.

 

[Patton89]

Well the lack of resources to say one thing, how do they manufacture these cars, if even pre war factories had trouble doing so before the nuclear holocaust ?

I think it's more of a maintenance thing. Maintenance seems viable enough. The people were able to maintain quite a lot of different equipment after all. The engines on some cars might've been adapted to work on something like biodiesel. People are creative and, well, cars can even run on steam.

The setting doesn't really answer this, but you can't ignore the evidence it provides either - like the car tuning shop in New Reno. It would be pointless to establish something like that for one car, which just happened to belong to the Chosen One.

emm..new reno is somewhat bad evidence, as the towns entire excistance is bit dubious logically thinking. How would a city of casinos survive, when they are settlements that are just barely coming back and having electricity ? I mean everyone are busy surviving with the mutated monstrosities of the wasteland and raiders and robbers.

Now im not saying that there are not some other cars, but i find thousands cars bit unbelivable, as there are supposed to be 700 000 people living in NCR with a car to people ratio of 1/200. Most cars are nothing more than junk metal, and when you look back at


Fallout, the cars were nothing more than junk to used to create carts already, so how would 80 years improve that ? And again, people would have better use for engine parts, as electricity has not become as common as it used to be. They would need all the parts to repair existing generators and etc.

And biodiesel, again, food is bit scarse, why waste it when you have people who are hungry or starving ?

EDIT: i really, have to say, that new reno was fun. But it wasn't the most best though up part of Fallout 2.

 

[gothfox]

emm..new reno is somewhat bad evidence, as the towns entire excistance is bit dubious logically thinking.

Ah, so even actual games are not "canon" enough for you.

How would a city of casinos survive, when they are settlements that are just barely coming back and having electricity ?

Fallout 2 is like that, yeah. It doesn't mean that you can just pick and choose whatever you deem logical and dismiss everything else. Well, you can, but it makes further discussion about "setting" rather pointless since you refuse to accept is as a whole.

 

[Viliny]

emm..new reno is somewhat bad evidence, as the towns entire excistance is bit dubious logically thinking.

Ah, so even actual games are not "canon" enough for you.

New reno never bothered me when i was a young kid playing the game. But now i do realize that it's a bit weird for that place to exist like that...

Okay so Fallout 2 got a lot of pop culture easter eggs and new reno. It's not like the community haven't given the game flak for that.

 

[Roflcore]

new reno is far more logical than any "town" in f3.

 

[Patton89]

emm..new reno is somewhat bad evidence, as the towns entire excistance is bit dubious logically thinking.

Ah, so even actual games are not "canon" enough for you.

How would a city of casinos survive, when they are settlements that are just barely coming back and having electricity ?

Fallout 2 is like that, yeah. It doesn't mean that you can just pick and choose whatever you deem logical and dismiss everything else. Well, you can, but it makes further discussion about "setting" rather pointless since you refuse to accept is as a whole.

Again, a ONE car shop in reno doesn't prove that cars are by the thousands in california. Hell, even one of the original devs dismissed some bits as non-canon in Fallout 2, example , Broken Hills is considered canon only for the race war by THE FALLOUT BIBLE. They rushed the game, made it in 1 year, so some parts were bit unfinished.
fallout 3 has no excuse like that. 4 years of development.

 

[Fade]

emm..new reno is somewhat bad evidence, as the towns entire excistance is bit dubious logically thinking.

Ah, so even actual games are not "canon" enough for you.

How would a city of casinos survive, when they are settlements that are just barely coming back and having electricity ?

Fallout 2 is like that, yeah. It doesn't mean that you can just pick and choose whatever you deem logical and dismiss everything else. Well, you can, but it makes further discussion about "setting" rather pointless since you refuse to accept is as a whole.

Given that there isn't 1 designer for games anymore it does mean we have to pick & choose. A major part of the problem with Fallout 3 is that they put in anything & everything they thought was fun.

Fallout 2 had the same problem to a lesser degree which means they should have learned better. I know, I know... different developers. Still most people can learn from other people's mistakes.

If you read through the NMA archives you'll realize that alot of people consider Fallout 1 to be the touchstone for everything Fallout not Fallout 2. Since the sequel conflicts with the orginal on several points you have to decide for yourself what is & isn't canon.


As for a car mod in Fallout 3... doesn't really fit in my opinion. If you want to drive around and shoot things play the GTA series. Both series have good points, but I don't want to play Grand Fallout Auto.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Fallout 2 is like that, yeah. It doesn't mean that you can just pick and choose whatever you deem logical and dismiss everything else. Well, you can, but it makes further discussion about "setting" rather pointless since you refuse to accept is as a whole.

That's not quite right, areas where Fallout 2 breaches canon can be dismissed or, at the very least, pointed to as examples of what not to do. New Reno doesn't fit the setting at all, it uses power frivolously, its purpose is the same as the current Reno in a post apocalyptic wasteland where such a town couldn't be sustainable, it's thematically inconsistent as it is US 20's gang and mob based, and I'm sure there are many other things. Regardless of whether or not it is canon (I'd lean towards it being canon in need of a retcon or needs to be destroyed so it can basically be ignored), it's a great example of what not to do in the setting. That said, it's also a great example of good quest design and structure but that's a seperate issue.

All in all, the car wasn't a very good idea setting wise but was a good idea mechanically. It also shows that at best, there are only a rare few cars which are running or can be made to run due to the difficulty of getting parts. Yes, the Bible says otherwise. No, the Bible is not entirely canon, particularly where it contradicts the games, more so the first than the second (one could argue that parts are a retcon for the second game where it doesn't contradict the first).

 

[PaladinHeart]

I don't really see how it could be against cannon, since it's "a military simulation"?

Meaning it's not really real, kinda like the little [spoiler:d41219cd60]VR thing in vault 112.[/spoiler:d41219cd60]

 

[Tarissky]

Wait a second... no love for the PS3 version? What the hell?

 

[Moving Target]

Damn, man, where have you been? It's been almost six months since Bethsoft and MS announced that they were building FO3 as a primarily XBrick game. And it was about that same time that they implied (later admitted) that PS3 owners would NOT be getting all the little bells and whistles that XBrick or PC owners would.

 

[Gentlemen]

XBrick? Well, it is quite heavy and rectangular, but far more entertaining then a brick.

 

[Moving Target]

*Shrug* Guess so. It's got some decent FPS', but those have been available on PC (and generally better quality) for longer than even the first XBox. Damn thing breaks constantly, though. So "brick" is a pretty good descriptor; at least some of the time.

 

[Oakraven]

with the CS comming out in december, ill probably buy FO3 in like feb or march then after the mod community has some time to work out some of the stupid shit beth has done.

and the anchorage thing sounds promising.

tons of ammo because its the front line of a battle... next question is will it be pre or post 51b power armor.

Its a simulator (your bascialy playing a vidio game. . . inside a vidio game. . . ( i can see the devs now. . . "how cool will that be nucknucknuck") from what I read. not sure how you can get any ammo out of it. Granted you may get "Free XP" out of it but the whole thing just seems Meh to me. Now a whole "WWIII reenactment"(ala all thoes Civil war reenactors) would probably have been better. at least then you can mow the idiots down. (seriously though I tend to feel that the ones who want to reenact the southern side are either kind of weird (they want to be the loosers) or closet racist who wish that the south had won so that slavery would still be legal.

 

[Tagaziel]

He's saying that the car in Fallout 2 was a reward for completing a quest.

Also that the cars in Fallout 3 suddenly run on explosive fusion materials when they didn't before.

Then he goes on to state that working vehicles aren't true to Fallout canon because no one really has the know-how to get them working and there isn't any fuel to get them running except for a few spectacular cases.

Defiance completed.

Actually no... cars prior to FO3 ran on fusion cells as well.

So you can repair (and optimize) a nuclear reactor in FO2 but for some reason no one can get a car running? Again, I don't see what all this gripin' is about (not just here), I suppose its unfair to single out this persons' post but meh.

And I dont know what you're "completing" or why theres a need to be "defiant". *shrug*

The reactor is big, sheltered from the environment and wasn't running for the past 150+ years. It was reactivated by the ghouls and while damaged, it was working. Uranium was received from Broken Hills, and all you "repaired" was the broken Hydroelectric Magnetosphere Regulator swapping, to prevent leaking radiation into local water sources. And optimizing meant basically taking a disk with the power plant OS and having Vault City's mainframe optimize it. That's all.

Hardly finding a spare engine, battery, repairing corrosion, finding fresh tires etc. for a car.

Well the lack of resources to say one thing, how do they manufacture these cars, if even pre war factories had trouble doing so before the nuclear holocaust ?

I think it's more of a maintenance thing. Maintenance seems viable enough. The people were able to maintain quite a lot of different equipment after all. The engines on some cars might've been adapted to work on something like biodiesel. People are creative and, well, cars can even run on steam.

The setting doesn't really answer this, but you can't ignore the evidence it provides either - like the car tuning shop in New Reno. It would be pointless to establish something like that for one car, which just happened to belong to the Chosen One.

BIODIESEL?

Seriously, stop making such stupid claims, you're embarassing yourself.