Bethesda's Lore Recons

[MercenarySnake]

This isn't the right topic for this particular subject, but this topic is about the criticism on Bethesda's Fallout 4 so I will post it here. (and it is sort of a retcon).

Just South from Boston while I was fighting some raiders, some Gunners came by... FLYING A VERTIBIRD!@!%*!
Yes, a prototype VTOL plane which was still in development before the War, perfected by the Enclave, and reverse engineered or captured by the NCR, the BOS, and the Brotherhood (West Coast and East Coast versions), is now also used by a bunch of mercenary raiders that are barely literate and able to use use a degree of technology (perhaps just able to use a computer, but knowing how to repair one or know what an Operating System is).
Seems it doesn't take years and years of study and training to fly a plane, let alone one that can vertically take of and land. All those flight schools and degrees you have to have are just a scam to prevent the common man from flying a plane, reserving it for only a handful of people.

How can a bunch of degenerates standing around while you murder them with the lowest IQ possible do something like THAT?

 

[Dr Fallout]

This isn't the right topic for this particular subject, but this topic is about the criticism on Bethesda's Fallout 4 so I will post it here. (and it is sort of a retcon).

Just South from Boston while I was fighting some raiders, some Gunners came by... FLYING A VERTIBIRD!@!%*!
Yes, a prototype VTOL plane which was still in development before the War, perfected by the Enclave, and reverse engineered or captured by the NCR, the BOS, and the Brotherhood (West Coast and East Coast versions), is now also used by a bunch of mercenary raiders that are barely literate and able to use use a degree of technology (perhaps just able to use a computer, but knowing how to repair one or know what an Operating System is).
Seems it doesn't take years and years of study and training to fly a plane, let alone one that can vertically take of and land. All those flight schools and degrees you have to have are just a scam to prevent the common man from flying a plane, reserving it for only a handful of people.

How can a bunch of degenerates standing around while you murder them with the lowest IQ possible do something like THAT?

They have secret talents. Perhaps the Gunners used to be a group of air force soldiers that were driving the verti-birds prior to the bombs dropping, and when they crashed a few survived, forming bases around the things. They spread the knowledge of flight around and became relatively powerful due to their advanced gear. However the majority left their bases around the verti-birds and went out into the waste.

 

[Shardik]

This isn't the right topic for this particular subject, but this topic is about the criticism on Bethesda's Fallout 4 so I will post it here. (and it is sort of a retcon).

Just South from Boston while I was fighting some raiders, some Gunners came by... FLYING A VERTIBIRD!@!%*!
Yes, a prototype VTOL plane which was still in development before the War, perfected by the Enclave, and reverse engineered or captured by the NCR, the BOS, and the Brotherhood (West Coast and East Coast versions), is now also used by a bunch of mercenary raiders that are barely literate and able to use use a degree of technology (perhaps just able to use a computer, but knowing how to repair one or know what an Operating System is).
Seems it doesn't take years and years of study and training to fly a plane, let alone one that can vertically take of and land. All those flight schools and degrees you have to have are just a scam to prevent the common man from flying a plane, reserving it for only a handful of people.

Yep. The Boomers, they had training by virtual simulators so they can fly. But a group of raiders? Hah.

Bethesda - "Hey, Borderlands 2 had bandits that flew around on half-assed gyrocopters called Buzzards, so we need something like that in our game too!"

So now you have raiders who can fly vertibirds because "Itz teh Coolzzzz!"

One slight problem - Borderlands 2 is a goofy shooter that doesn't pretend to be anything but, and it never takes itself seriously. So it can get away with stuff like this. Fallout, OTOH, can't.

WRT the ghoul kid locked in the fridge for 200 years, who the hell even came up with that idea, and how the hell did someone else green-light it to appear in the game? And how could anyone involved think that players' reaction to it would be anything other than WTF?

 

[Dr Fallout]

This isn't the right topic for this particular subject, but this topic is about the criticism on Bethesda's Fallout 4 so I will post it here. (and it is sort of a retcon).

Just South from Boston while I was fighting some raiders, some Gunners came by... FLYING A VERTIBIRD!@!%*!
Yes, a prototype VTOL plane which was still in development before the War, perfected by the Enclave, and reverse engineered or captured by the NCR, the BOS, and the Brotherhood (West Coast and East Coast versions), is now also used by a bunch of mercenary raiders that are barely literate and able to use use a degree of technology (perhaps just able to use a computer, but knowing how to repair one or know what an Operating System is).
Seems it doesn't take years and years of study and training to fly a plane, let alone one that can vertically take of and land. All those flight schools and degrees you have to have are just a scam to prevent the common man from flying a plane, reserving it for only a handful of people.

Yep. The Boomers, they had training by virtual simulators so they can fly. But a group of raiders? Hah.

Bethesda - "Hey, Borderlands 2 had bandits that flew around on half-assed gyrocopters called Buzzards, so we need something like that in our game too!"

So now you have raiders who can fly vertibirds because "Itz teh Coolzzzz!"

One slight problem - Borderlands 2 is a goofy shooter that doesn't pretend to be anything but, and it never takes itself seriously. So it can get away with stuff like this. Fallout, OTOH, can't.

I see how much Borderlands influenced this game.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

What's worse is Fallout 4 presents all of its writing as serious. It tries to be a serious Borderlands. Borderlands at least is self aware enough to not take itself seriously or expect the viewer to interpret it as compelling writing.

The whole game takes itself completely seriously. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you had Point Lookout with Brains in Jars, Mothership Zeta with Aliens, Old World Blues with Big Mountain, and all sorts of over the top writing. But you know what? It worked. It was so well-written, and it did not take itself 100% seriously - it was self aware. It was simultaneously outrageous and over the top but at the same time written well enough that you could still be immersed and laugh at it all. In contrast, someone wrote Cabot House, which is not self aware, which takes itself 100% seriously, and which expects the viewer to take it completely seriously. Except it is not infused with enough solid writing to be immersive enough to suspend your disbelief. Instead it's written like the author finished watching Ancient Aliens on the History channel and thought it would be creative to write this and try to make it emotionally and intellectually mature. All I can say is FAIL.

 

[SaucyLad]

What's worse is Fallout 4 presents all of its writing as serious. It tries to be a serious Borderlands. Borderlands at least is self aware enough to not take itself seriously or expect the viewer to interpret it as compelling writing.

The whole game takes itself completely seriously. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you had Point Lookout with Brains in Jars, Mothership Zeta with Aliens, Old World Blues with Big Mountain, and all sorts of over the top writing. But you know what?It worked.

You can't go and praise Mothership Zeta and then trash Fallout 4's story and expect your post to be taken seriously, dude. Mothership Zeta - serious or not does not belong in the Fallout universe. Bethesda took something that was mostly an Easter Egg and for some stupid reason made it a part of Fallout.

Aliens playing any role at all in the wasteland is the stupidest shit ever. There's absolutely no need at all to bring them in to the games story when there's all kinds of stuff to work with already.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You can't go and praise Mothership Zeta and then trash Fallout 4's story and expect your post to be taken seriously

I just did. Zeta wasn't a serious piece of writing and it knew that. The Ancient Aliens writing in Cabot house does not know that.

 

[Dr Fallout]

What's worse is Fallout 4 presents all of its writing as serious. It tries to be a serious Borderlands. Borderlands at least is self aware enough to not take itself seriously or expect the viewer to interpret it as compelling writing.

The whole game takes itself completely seriously. In Fallout 3 and New Vegas you had Point Lookout with Brains in Jars, Mothership Zeta with Aliens, Old World Blues with Big Mountain, and all sorts of over the top writing. But you know what?It worked.

You can't go and praise Mothership Zeta and then trash Fallout 4's story and expect your post to be taken seriously, dude. Mothership Zeta - serious or not does not belong in the Fallout universe. Bethesda took something that was mostly an Easter Egg and for some stupid reason made it a part of Fallout.

Aliens playing any role at all in the wasteland is the stupidest shit ever. There's absolutely no need at all to bring them in to the games story when there's all kinds of stuff to work with already.

Yeah I agree. Everything else is right but Mothership Zeta, or Motherfucker aliens is not a good comparison.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. It was the Far Cry: Blood Dragon of Fallout 3 DLC, and it that sense it was done well. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story. Zeta was a B-movie Aliens story that admitted up front that it was a B-movie Aliens story.

I'm not trying to debate whether or not it belongs in the Fallout universe. I'm comparing the way Bethesda did it in Fallout 3 with the way they did it in Fallout 4.

Old World Blues and Point Lookout were over the top as well, but they were done extremely well. And OWB was just downright amazing.

 

[Dr Fallout]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story.

A whole DLC on an alien ship?

Yeah sorry, I doubt it wasn't taken to be seriously... unless of course the creators say otherwise.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story.

A whole DLC on an alien ship?

Yeah sorry, I doubt it wasn't taken to be seriously... unless of course the creators say otherwise.

Again, I reiterate:

Whether or not it is "canon" is not my issue. My issue is one of those aliens stories admits to you up front that it is a B-movie level sci-fi story - a silly piece of fun and nothing more. The other one is pretending to be a quality, serious story. That is my opinion on how the writing in Zeta versus Cabot House presents itself to the viewer. But it is only my opinion.

 

[Dr Fallout]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story.

A whole DLC on an alien ship?

Yeah sorry, I doubt it wasn't taken to be seriously... unless of course the creators say otherwise.

Again, I reiterate:

Whether or not it is "canon" is not my issue. My issue is one of those aliens stories admits to you up front that it is a B-movie level sci-fi story - a silly piece of fun and nothing more. The other one is pretending to be a quality, serious story.

Fair enough. Though I still think making a whole DLC was a bit much.

 

[GlowHound]

i know it isn't a Retcon from bethesda but
What happened to the NCR flag
because it changed from fallout two to new vegas
View attachment 2408 View attachment 2409

I think they wanted it to be more like California's actual flag. It's the same only without "new" and the raised head.

 

[SaucyLad]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. It was the Far Cry: Blood Dragon of Fallout 3 DLC, and it that sense it was done well. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story. Zeta was a B-movie Aliens story that admitted up front that it was a B-movie Aliens story.

I'm not trying to debate whether or not it belongs in the Fallout universe. I'm comparing the way Bethesda did it in Fallout 3 with the way they did it in Fallout 4.

Old World Blues and Point Lookout were over the top as well, but they were done extremely well. And OWB was just downright amazing.

Old World Blues could easily fit in the series canon though without conflicts. As could most of Fallout 3's DLC. Mothership Zeta is the only one that comes to mind that couldn't because it retcons how the Great War potentially started;China didn't fire first. But neither did the USA! It was Aliens!

Until something's shown to prove Bethesda meant it as "just for fun - not canon" I'll believe it was a serious attempt at a DLC by them. It doesn't help their case the Alien crap continues in Fallout 4 with Cabot House, either.

 

[Someguy37]

Old World Blues could easily fit in the series canon though without conflicts. As could most of Fallout 3's DLC. Mothership Zeta is the only one that comes to mind that couldn't because it retcons how the Great War potentially started;China didn't fire first. But neither did the USA! It was Aliens!

Until something's shown to prove Bethesda meant it as "just for fun - not canon" I'll believe it was a serious attempt at a DLC by them. It doesn't help their case the Alien crap continues in Fallout 4 with Cabot House, either.

Actually, the alien captive log that details the aliens supposedly trying to get the nuke codes from that solider doesn't have any recording for the human voice, its just alien garbles. The human voice was never recorded, and its not even in the game files. Its literally cut content.

And house Cabot isn't about "aliens" either, ita giant lovecraft riff.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. It was the Far Cry: Blood Dragon of Fallout 3 DLC, and it that sense it was done well. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story. Zeta was a B-movie Aliens story that admitted up front that it was a B-movie Aliens story.

I'm not trying to debate whether or not it belongs in the Fallout universe. I'm comparing the way Bethesda did it in Fallout 3 with the way they did it in Fallout 4.

Old World Blues and Point Lookout were over the top as well, but they were done extremely well. And OWB was just downright amazing.

Old World Blues could easily fit in the series canon though without conflicts. As could most of Fallout 3's DLC. Mothership Zeta is the only one that comes to mind that couldn't because it retcons how the Great War potentially started;China didn't fire first. But neither did the USA! It was Aliens!

Until something's shown to prove Bethesda meant it as "just for fun - not canon" I'll believe it was a serious attempt at a DLC by them. It doesn't help their case the Alien crap continues in Fallout 4 with Cabot House, either.

I can see that writing an essay still won't help you understand that I don't care whether or not something is considered canon by Bethesda. I'm talking about good writing vs. "let's just get this done" writing.

I'll try one more time: If a B-movie sci-fi presents itself to you as an A-movie, highly-cultured literary work of art, that is Cabot House. If a B-movie sci-fi presents itself to you openly as a B-movie sci-fi - that is Mothership Zeta. This is simply my opinion on the difference between the writing in the two.

Good day.

EDIT: If you're really so upset I included a reference to Fallout 3 or Mothership Zeta, then take it out of my original post so I'm only talking about Old World Blues. It communicates the same point.

 

[SaucyLad]

@Irwin John Finster: Easy there, Mr. Scholar. I just found it odd that you would hate on Cabot House then like Mothership Zeta when they're both essentially the same. They both may not have came from the same butthole but they're both still crap.

To me if the game/maker doesn't say explicitly that it's non-canon to the player themselves, then their intentions are for it to be so.

 

[Dr Fallout]

Old World Blues could easily fit in the series canon though without conflicts. As could most of Fallout 3's DLC. Mothership Zeta is the only one that comes to mind that couldn't because it retcons how the Great War potentially started;China didn't fire first. But neither did the USA! It was Aliens!

Until something's shown to prove Bethesda meant it as "just for fun - not canon" I'll believe it was a serious attempt at a DLC by them. It doesn't help their case the Alien crap continues in Fallout 4 with Cabot House, either.

Actually, the alien captive log that details the aliens supposedly trying to get the nuke codes from that solider doesn't have any recording for the human voice, its just alien garbles. The human voice was never recorded, and its not even in the game files. Its literally cut content.

And house Cabot isn't about "aliens" either, ita giant lovecraft riff.

Is that any better?

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You seem to be missing my point. Mothership Zeta was not something to be taken with a heavy heart. It wasn't even part of the main game - it was a DLC. Its writing was lighthearted and did not try to pass itself as something creative or mature. It was the Far Cry: Blood Dragon of Fallout 3 DLC, and it that sense it was done well. Cabot House is a B-Movie Ancient Aliens story that is expecting us to take all of it as a serious part of the Fallout 4 story. Zeta was a B-movie Aliens story that admitted up front that it was a B-movie Aliens story.

I'm not trying to debate whether or not it belongs in the Fallout universe. I'm comparing the way Bethesda did it in Fallout 3 with the way they did it in Fallout 4.

Old World Blues and Point Lookout were over the top as well, but they were done extremely well. And OWB was just downright amazing.

Old World Blues could easily fit in the series canon though without conflicts.

I agree and that is another reason the over the top writing in New Vegas and Old World Blues specifically worked so well.

 

[ElderMaxson]

This isn't the right topic for this particular subject, but this topic is about the criticism on Bethesda's Fallout 4 so I will post it here. (and it is sort of a retcon).

Just South from Boston while I was fighting some raiders, some Gunners came by... FLYING A VERTIBIRD!@!%*!
Yes, a prototype VTOL plane which was still in development before the War, perfected by the Enclave, and reverse engineered or captured by the NCR, the BOS, and the Brotherhood (West Coast and East Coast versions), is now also used by a bunch of mercenary raiders that are barely literate and able to use use a degree of technology (perhaps just able to use a computer, but knowing how to repair one or know what an Operating System is).
Seems it doesn't take years and years of study and training to fly a plane, let alone one that can vertically take of and land. All those flight schools and degrees you have to have are just a scam to prevent the common man from flying a plane, reserving it for only a handful of people.

How can a bunch of degenerates standing around while you murder them with the lowest IQ possible do something like THAT?

They have secret talents. Perhaps the Gunners used to be a group of air force soldiers that were driving the verti-birds prior to the bombs dropping, and when they crashed a few survived, forming bases around the things. They spread the knowledge of flight around and became relatively powerful due to their advanced gear. However the majority left their bases around the verti-birds and went out into the waste.

It's the Hollywood school of helicopters. If you can "twist" or "bend" the stick, that means you can instantly pilot a helicopter. And to Bethesda, the Vertibird is just a "Fallout" substitute for the helicopter. Therefore by this logic, you should also be able to pilot the thing since the lawyer wife worked out how to power armor without a hitch.

The Gunners, from what I've seen, had no pre-war relations. They're, essentially, raiders acting as military wannabes. Perhaps an organisation like the Boomers in NV could've worked it out from passed down knowledge. But assuming you weren't being sarcastic, the Gunners are simply experienced, organised mercenaries. It's possible, though unlikely, that a Brotherhood deserter joined the Gunners. Seeing how easy it was to hijack a Vertibird in the Railroad questline would make this seem a plausible incident.