Bethesda's Lore Recons

[Someguy37]

We have seen glowing ones, even non feral glowing ones like Jason Bright, still alive and well 200+ years after the war, despite emitting radiation constantly.

Radiation doesn't decay the ghoul body.

No matter how many unavailable terminal entries from Fallout 3 with inconclusive results you bring up.

I like how you completely ignore the quote from New Vegas where the courier mentions ghouls get healed by radiation.

And if you read, which you seem hellbent on not doing, the inconclusiveness isn't about if radiation heals ghouls, its about how glowing ones do it.

Again, I don't care that you dislike it, but if you are going to argue the point, could you at least argue what was actually stated instead of frothing at the mouth with some straw-man.?

 

[Romanophile]

Can somebody explain to me why having Nuka‐Cola Quantum in Boston is problematic?

 

[Someguy37]

Can somebody explain to me why having Nuka‐Cola Quantum in Boston is problematic?

It was stated in Fallout 3 that nuka-cola quantum was something being tested only in the D.C. area, and wasn't for public purchase elsewhere yet. Like it was being shipped to stores to be sold for the first time when the bombs fell, it was that new.

New Vegas rectoned that a bit with Nuka-Cola quantum banners in Goodsprings general store, and a few bottles in The Divide, and Bethesda now just seems to have rolled with that and made it available all along the east coast.

 

[Hassknecht]

We have seen glowing ones, even non feral glowing ones like Jason Bright, still alive and well 200+ years after the war, despite emitting radiation constantly.

Radiation doesn't decay the ghoul body.

No matter how many unavailable terminal entries from Fallout 3 with inconclusive results you bring up.

I like how you completely ignore the quote from New Vegas where the courier mentions ghouls get healed by radiation.

And if you read, which you seem hellbent on not doing, the inconclusiveness isn't about if radiation heals ghouls, its about how glowing ones do it.

Again, I don't care that you dislike it, but if you are going to argue the point, could you at least argue what was actually stated instead of frothing at the mouth with some straw-man.?

Oh, sorry that I didn't read the quote you edited in. Turns out I'm not a time traveller.
And again, that's all stuff that started in Fallout 3, when ghouls were suddenly zombies that appeared everywhere. You argued earlier that Fallout 1 and 2 showed ghouls healing from radiation.
And that quote states that they don't know if it's the radiation, so I'm not entirely sure why you cite it as an argument. But yes, I misread that quote earlier, sorry about that.

Alsoplustoo, I don't think you know what a strawman argument is.

 

[Someguy37]

snip

>Last edited at 11:07am
>you post was at 11:11 am
Unless it took you 4 minutes to write two sentences.... I'm not buying it.

So... the Courier was in Fallout 3? Really? Where was this?

Umm no, it says they don't know the nature behind why glowing ones heal other ghouls... which means they have no idea why radiation heals ghouls, not that they don't know if its the radiation.

A straw man is one takes another person's argument, changes it, and then responds to that changed version as if it was the actual argument made.

 

[Hassknecht]

snip

>Last edited at 11:07am
>you post was at 11:11 am
Unless it took you 4 minutes to write two sentences.... I'm not buying it.

So... the Courier was in Fallout 3? Really? Where was this?

Umm no, it says they don't know the nature behind why glowing ones heal other ghouls... which means they have no idea why radiation heals ghouls, not that they don't know if its the radiation.

A straw man is one takes another person's argument, changes it, and then responds to that changed version as if it was the actual argument made.

You saw me quoting you in that post, right? That was the full quote, nothing cut out. I tend to do different things while writing posts, so it can take a bit longer (like right now I was making dinner/now eating it. Writing this post took me about five to ten minutes or so). And then I didn't go over the older posts. Sorry I don't have clairvoyance.
And godfuckingdamnit stop Till-Eulenspiegeling this argument. New Vegas had to go with many things Fallout 3 established, like running feral ghouls and glowing ones that heal them. And don't pretend you didn't know that I meant exactly that. That whole thing is based on Fallout 3 is my point.

"Studies on the nature of their healing effects on other ghouls [...]" means that they don't know what causes it, not why they do it.

 

[Crni Vuk]

You want something to work? You use real life as argument. Something that we explain with real life? Suddenly it's a fictional setting and whoopty fuckin' doo! We just have to accept it.

As has been pointed out numerous time's, I've only used real life as an argument when the game's have shown that such aspect of reality is true in-universe. That's not flip-flopping by any measure, that's being consistent with the games.

Your ridiculous attempts to straw-man everything into these "all or nothing situation" is rather quite tiresome.

Arguing with you, without any offense, is like arguing with a wall you know.

Your constant use of the above argument makes the feeling mutual.

I believe, this doesn't mean, what you think it means.

From now on, the Fridge Quest, should be a question that you have to answer before you register on NMA, where you have to answer with either yes or no on Does the Ghoul in the fridge make sense? And only a no, would get you full access to the forum.

 

[Someguy37]

You saw me quoting you in that post, right? That was the full quote, nothing cut out. I tend to do different things while writing posts, so it can take a bit longer (like right now I was making dinner/now eating it. Writing this post took me about five to ten minutes or so). And then I didn't go over the older posts. Sorry I don't have clairvoyance.

And godfuckingdamnit stop Till-Eulenspiegeling this argument.

New Vegas had to go with many things Fallout 3 established, like running feral ghouls and glowing ones that heal them. And don't pretend you didn't know that I meant exactly that. That whole thing is based on Fallout 3 is my point.

"Studies on the nature of their healing effects on other ghouls [...]" means that they don't know what causes it, not why they do it.

Hitting F5 to refresh the page before you start to post is clairvoyance now?

Literally what?

Yeah, and obviously Obsidian found them ok with the lore, or else they could have easily removed all the feral ghouls and just replaced them with hostile ghouls that use the non-feral ghoul skin like many of the Searchlight ghouls were. So obviously the people who made the originals think its lore fitting.

Except they do know what causes it, IIRC, Doc Barrows himself states radiation can heal ghouls. So no, the question is not "can radiation heal ghouls" everyone knows it does, even the guy who wrote the entry does. Its "why does this happen".

 

[Hassknecht]

You saw me quoting you in that post, right? That was the full quote, nothing cut out. I tend to do different things while writing posts, so it can take a bit longer (like right now I was making dinner/now eating it. Writing this post took me about five to ten minutes or so). And then I didn't go over the older posts. Sorry I don't have clairvoyance.

And godfuckingdamnit stop Till-Eulenspiegeling this argument.

New Vegas had to go with many things Fallout 3 established, like running feral ghouls and glowing ones that heal them. And don't pretend you didn't know that I meant exactly that. That whole thing is based on Fallout 3 is my point.

"Studies on the nature of their healing effects on other ghouls [...]" means that they don't know what causes it, not why they do it.

Hitting F5 to refresh the page before you start to post is clairvoyance now?

Literally what?

Yeah, and obviously Obsidian found them ok with the lore, or else they could have easily removed all the feral ghouls and just replaced them with hostile ghouls that use the non-feral ghoul skin like many of the Searchlight ghouls were. So obviously the people who made the originals think its lore fitting.

Except they do know what causes it, IIRC, Doc Barrows himself states radiation can heal ghouls. So no, the question is not "can radiation heal ghouls" everyone knows it does, even the guy who wrote the entry does. Its "why does this happen".

Dude, I started writing your post right after you posted it. You made the edit before I finished writing mine. I can't know that without a sixth sense. Sorry about that.
Till Eulenspiegel is a german fictional character who takes everything 100% literally. Which is quite annoying when someone starts arguing nothing but semantics.
Obsidian didn't really have much of a choice, they didn't have enough time and money to revert ghoul-lore completely (which would have meant making new animations), and they likely had certain constraints on what they can disregard in their game.
Maybe. Healing by radiation still didn't heal them in Fallout 1/2, as far as I know, which is what this whole argument is about.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

You saw me quoting you in that post, right? That was the full quote, nothing cut out. I tend to do different things while writing posts, so it can take a bit longer (like right now I was making dinner/now eating it. Writing this post took me about five to ten minutes or so). And then I didn't go over the older posts. Sorry I don't have clairvoyance.

And godfuckingdamnit stop Till-Eulenspiegeling this argument.

New Vegas had to go with many things Fallout 3 established, like running feral ghouls and glowing ones that heal them. And don't pretend you didn't know that I meant exactly that. That whole thing is based on Fallout 3 is my point.

"Studies on the nature of their healing effects on other ghouls [...]" means that they don't know what causes it, not why they do it.

Hitting F5 to refresh the page before you start to post is clairvoyance now?

Literally what?

Yeah, and obviously Obsidian found them ok with the lore, or else they could have easily removed all the feral ghouls and just replaced them with hostile ghouls that use the non-feral ghoul skin like many of the Searchlight ghouls were. So obviously the people who made the originals think its lore fitting.

Except they do know what causes it, IIRC, Doc Barrows himself states radiation can heal ghouls. So no, the question is not "can radiation heal ghouls" everyone knows it does, even the guy who wrote the entry does. Its "why does this happen".

Dude, I started writing your post right after you posted it. You made the edit before I finished writing mine. I can't know that without a sixth sense. Sorry about that.
Till Eulenspiegel is a german fictional character who takes everything 100% literally. Which is quite annoying when someone starts arguing nothing but semantics.
Obsidian didn't really have much of a choice, they didn't have enough time and money to revert ghoul-lore completely (which would have meant making new animations), and they likely had certain constraints on what they can disregard in their game.
Maybe. Healing by radiation still didn't heal them in Fallout 1/2, as far as I know, which is what this whole argument is about.

I warned you about arguing with him

 

[Crni Vuk]

He is persistent, you have to give him that. Maybe he is actually a crazy forum-AI

 

[Someguy37]

Dude, I started writing your post right after you posted it. You made the edit before I finished writing mine. I can't know that without a sixth sense. Sorry about that.

Till Eulenspiegel is a german fictional character who takes everything 100% literally. Which is quite annoying when someone starts arguing nothing but semantics.

Obsidian didn't really have much of a choice, they didn't have enough time and money to revert ghoul-lore completely (which would have meant making new animations), and they likely had certain constraints on what they can disregard in their game.

Maybe. Healing by radiation still didn't heal them in Fallout 1/2, as far as I know, which is what this whole argument is about.

And again, you couldn't hit f5 to see if the post updated? Seriously, everyone I know has the decency to do that before posting, or at least they wait 5 minutes before reasoning. Basic posting etiquette m8.

Yes, people who argue semantics are annoying. Your inability to understand basic English is not semantics however.

Except we saw in Searchlight that Obsidian made ghouls that didn't run, could use guns, and used the normal ghoul skin instead of the feral ones, mimicking the crazies from Fallout1/2 exactly. They LITERALLY already had it made in the released game. There was no constraint on them to use Fallout 3's feral ghouls, as they could have just used the ones they used for some of the ghouls in searchlight. You are literally pulling excuses out of your ass, and attempting to revise history yet again. Why the fuck can you not make a single honest argument? Or have you simply not played New Vegas?

All Fallout 1/2 showed is the same thing Dead Money showed, ghouls have no idea about their own physiology.


If you are going to lie, don't do it so blatantly, and especially not when it takes all of 2 minutes to look it up on any of the wikis.

 

[Hassknecht]

Dude, I started writing your post right after you posted it. You made the edit before I finished writing mine. I can't know that without a sixth sense. Sorry about that.

Till Eulenspiegel is a german fictional character who takes everything 100% literally. Which is quite annoying when someone starts arguing nothing but semantics.

Obsidian didn't really have much of a choice, they didn't have enough time and money to revert ghoul-lore completely (which would have meant making new animations), and they likely had certain constraints on what they can disregard in their game.

Maybe. Healing by radiation still didn't heal them in Fallout 1/2, as far as I know, which is what this whole argument is about.

And again, you couldn't hit f5 to see if the post updated? Seriously, everyone I know has the decency to do that before posting, or at least they wait 5 minutes before reasoning. Basic posting edicate m8.

Yes, people who argue semantics are annoying. Your inability to understand basic English is not semantics however.

Except we saw in searchlight that Obsidian made ghouls that didn't run, could use guns, and used the normal ghoul skin instead of the feral ones. They LITERALLY already had it made in the released game. There was no constraint on them to use Fallout 3's feral ghouls, as they could have just used the ones they used for some of the ghouls in searchlight. You are literally pulling excuses out of your ass, and attempting to revise history yet again. Why the fuck can you not make a single honest argument?

All Fallout 1/2 showed is the same thing Dead Money showed, ghouls have no idea about their own physiology.

Oh for fuck's sake, am I supposed to write my post, save it, and refresh the page before posting every time just in case you made an edit in your post? Yeah, sorry bro, you're not worth it.
Those ghouls in Searchlight are just regular ghouls that behave like ferals. And regular ghouls are just reskinned humans to begin with so of course that didn't take any work. I meant that if they wanted to make the ghouls more like in the originals they'd have to make new animations (shuffling and so on).
Fallout 2 showed ghouls still needing a doctor. Why would they need a doctor if the radiation in Gecko would provide autoheal strong enough to keep them alive and healthy for 200 years without food or water?
Cue argument that nothing in Fallout 2 showed Lenny actually working for the ghouls and that he just tended to passing travellers and so on...
Yeah, whatever. Since you decided to become increasingly hostile I think it's time to cut this off.

/edit: Oh hey, guess what, you again edited your post before I finished writing mine. Deal with it.

 

[LiveOnTheEdge]

The thing is, as far as Boston and Fallout 3 goes, you have the whole town beeing largely unaffected by nuclear weapons, despite of relative close impacts, even if we assume that the biggest nuke was just 200kt, it's still enough to mess up your town. And the way how they trivialized everything nuclear in the game of beeing nothing more but "grenades" and just another gimick for the player in the fun house.

I said this countless times by now. And not just me. No one. NO ONE(!). Expects 100% realism. We are playing a game after all. Not a Hiroshima simulator.

But seriously, go to F3 and the crater of the white house, and tell me it is not worthy of a face palm.

The reason why those screenshots and the intro don't really mean much in my eyes, is because they don't give you enough information! You have absolutely no clue how far away those buildings are from downtown. Hell you can't even really say if that's the part that was directly hit by any nuclear bomb and just buildings that colapsed over time - to my knowledge at least.

In Fallout 3 you can go directly to the center of the detonation. And I think in F4 as well. And it looks more like someone used a crate of TNT instead of a nuclear warhead.

But the screenshots do go to show that the intro isn't 100% just for the mood of the game since at least one part of it is backed up by the ending slides. So it seems to me that taller buildings surviving is at least implied in the original Fallouts, even if it's not particularly shown in the playable portions. (Which it seemed like people here were previously saying that it's impossible since it's not shown in-game. Or that's the way the arguments seemed to me anyway. I can't remember if you in particular were one of them.)

And yeah, Bethesda probably did dial down the bomb damage or just not really factor it in probably so in Fallout 3 there were some ruins and some iconic buildings/monuments to see and explore, and in Fallout 4 so Boston would have some more intact structures around. Which is ultimately insignificant to me personally, it's just not something I care about too much. Especially since it just a video game and I don't really expect it to be a 1:1 thing all over. (Sure, if everything was like 100% pristine condition, then yeah.)
Obviously you and others here care about that though.

And the bomb damage probably also had something to do with the scope and scale of the game with the transition to 3D and engine limitations. I think that's probably at least part of it. (However small or big that might be.) Because everything's not a 1:1 scale in scope or size and even the Eder Scrolls games because of the engine limitations. Lots of of things in those aren't depicted exactly as they're described in some of the in-game books and lore.

Just like in the same way you don't really see those tall buildings in the originals most likely because of certain limitations it was probably easier on the devs and easier on the players from a gameplay perspective to do it the way they did it. And actually, when looking at a lot of those buildings in the originals, they look like they were taller buildings that somehow only the bottom floor survived with it looking like almost a clean cut in a lot of the cases from where the rest of the building would have been before the destruction. Which, that would be weird right?

 

[Someguy37]

snip

Its called waiting two minutes before you post instead of rushing into things blindly.

Except they dont behave like ferals. The ferals AI is a creature AI, and the searchlight ghouls that don't use the feral skin are NPCs, and use the same AI as other NPCs. They lack the ferals speed, movements, and attacks, and use the same AI as any non-feral ghoul does if you made them hostile. Have you played the game at all?

And ghouls in Fallout 3 still need a doctor also. One ghoul, Patchwork, keep losing his limbs, and needs Doc Barrows so sew them back on. Radiation can keep them alive, but that doesn't mean they stay in tip top shape that whole time, and don't get other ailments.


I'm only hostile because you either are lying on purpose, and are thus trolling, or you simply haven't played the game, at which point you shouldn't be talking about it, or you haven't played it in so long you don't recall what was actually in it, in which case you should do research before opening your trap.


Last edited by Someguy37; Today at 01:31 PM.
You posted at 1:47

So it took you 16 minutes to post that?

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Congratulations, he now has you arguing over the time interval you must wait before responding to posts rather than Fallout. This has been quite amusing to read.

 

[TorontoReign]

I think the point of all this is Bethesda retconned lore from previous games and Obsidian had to roll with it. Ghouls needed water in previous games. Now they are zombies who aren't quite dead. Now you can lock a Ghoul in a room for 200 years and he will be just fine and dandy.

 

[Beaushizzle]

Dude, I started writing your post right after you posted it. You made the edit before I finished writing mine. I can't know that without a sixth sense. Sorry about that.

Till Eulenspiegel is a german fictional character who takes everything 100% literally. Which is quite annoying when someone starts arguing nothing but semantics.

Obsidian didn't really have much of a choice, they didn't have enough time and money to revert ghoul-lore completely (which would have meant making new animations), and they likely had certain constraints on what they can disregard in their game.

Maybe. Healing by radiation still didn't heal them in Fallout 1/2, as far as I know, which is what this whole argument is about.

And again, you couldn't hit f5 to see if the post updated? Seriously, everyone I know has the decency to do that before posting, or at least they wait 5 minutes before reasoning. Basic posting edicate m8.

Yes, people who argue semantics are annoying. Your inability to understand basic English is not semantics however.

Except we saw in Searchlight that Obsidian made ghouls that didn't run, could use guns, and used the normal ghoul skin instead of the feral ones, mimicking the crazies from Fallout1/2 exactly. They LITERALLY already had it made in the released game. There was no constraint on them to use Fallout 3's feral ghouls, as they could have just used the ones they used for some of the ghouls in searchlight. You are literally pulling excuses out of your ass, and attempting to revise history yet again. Why the fuck can you not make a single honest argument? Or have you simply not played New Vegas?

All Fallout 1/2 showed is the same thing Dead Money showed, ghouls have no idea about their own physiology.


If you are going to lie, don't do it so blatantly, and especially not when it takes all of 2 minutes to look it up on any of the wikis.

If we're getting into semantics here, then I'm going to call you out. You spelled etiquette wrong.

 

[Someguy37]

I think the point of all this is Bethesda retconned lore from previous games and Obsidian had to roll with it. Ghouls needed water in previous games. Now they are zombies who aren't quite dead. Now you can lock a Ghoul in a room for 200 years and he will be just fine and dandy.

Except they really didn't.

They already had "feral" non-feral ghouls in New Vegas, it literally would have taken 5 minutes, tops, to replace all the actual feral ghouls with the non-feral ones. I can seriously make a mod that does it in that amount of time.

Nor did they have to make an entire DLC whose primary enemy is ghouls who are kept alive solely by the radiation of the Divide, as they would normally die due to the harsh winds of The Divide skinning them. They could have had tunnelers, deathclaws, and just normal crazy ghouls like the ones in Searchlight, but removed the whole "winds of le divide keep tearing em apart, and they keep getting healed by the radiation" plot. It would have saved them a bit of money too, since they wouldn't have had to make the marked men texture they made, and could have just used the normal non-feral ghoul texture.

If we're getting into semantics here, then I'm going to call you out. You spelled etiquette wrong.

You're right, I did.

Will correct that now.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I take it back. This guy is apparently a very good troll as he has you arguing over the same Sh** as in the other thread.