Bethesda's Lore Recons

[Askorti]

It only shows bad balancing on the part of Bethesda. They have flooded the game with crappy gear and made actual weapons really rare. You need something like level 25-30 and be somewhere in the southern part of the map to start seeing enemies carrying proper weapons. Not great weapons, but proper weapons like assault and combat rifles. In Fallout 2 you had enemies with light machine guns and Super Mutants attacking caravans you guard pretty early on. And don't get me started on Enclave patrols around Navarro.
That's the problem with enemies dependent on player level, it ensures that the game is either too difficult, because they level faster than you (Oblivion) or too easy, because they level slower than you (F4)

 

[SaucyLad]

They have flooded the game with crappy gear and made actual weapons really rare. You need something like level 25-30 and be somewhere in the southern part of the map to start seeing enemies carrying proper weapons.

Ugh, I hate that. Loot in game being tied in with player level is the dumbest thing ever. If I can manage to beat harder enemies at a significantly lower level then I should be rewarded with whatever it is they normally drop rather than some crap adjusted to my level.

 

[Romanophile]

I’m assuming that level‐scaling is back, considering that my friend found a raider with power armour and he’s level 38. Fallout 2 only had level‐scaling for bounty hunters, and it made sense for them. In Fallout 4, power armour feels less like a potent achievement and more like common loot.

 

[Crni Vuk]

I can only imagine what kind of clusterfuck it can be. For the case it's true. A place you raided at lvl 5, giving you T45 armor will spawn a full suit of Enclave-like late-game armor, just because you happen to stumple up on the same place again with lvl 45 or something. I mean ... did someone stock up the place again or something? And of course with late game items as well! How convenient. Something I already hated in Skyrim. A place you already looted is now filled again with generic monsters, items etc. but neatly tied to your new level ...

 

[Hassknecht]

I’m assuming that level‐scaling is back, considering that my friend found a raider with power armour and he’s level 38. Fallout 2 only had level‐scaling for bounty hunters, and it made sense for them. In Fallout 4, power armour feels less like a potent achievement and more like common loot.

In the beginning it felt like a cool find (well, not the one you get right off the bat, but the rest that you find while exploring), but the novelty wears off quite quickly when you suddenly have a dozen of them in your garage.

 

[Someguy37]

Is it necessary that a band of dirty raiders can still pose a threat to you when you're on your way to deal with the Enclave? .

Yes, because The Enclave would only make up like 1% of the enemies in the game due to their small numbers. Which leaves the other 99% of the game needing to be balanced.

They have flooded the game with crappy gear and made actual weapons really rare.)

That's how it should be though. Its been 200 years since the war, all the good guns would have been used/destroyed ages ago, and things like PA would either still be locked in their military grade cages, or rounded up by the few high tech groups like the BoS/Enclave. Raiders and the majority of people should have been forced to resort to useing junk-PA, and pipe weapons, years ago. The proliferation of shitty pipe weapons, and armor made of hacked together tires and bits of metal, is exactly how it would be.

That's the problem with enemies dependent on player level, it ensures that the game is either too difficult, because they level faster than you (Oblivion) or too easy, because they level slower than you (F4)

Enemies in Fallout 4, just like Skyrim, are not wholly dependent on player level. Zones are set to minimum level ranges, increasing the further southeast you go, so they always have enemies above your level there.

 

[Askorti]

I can only imagine what kind of clusterfuck it can be. For the case it's true. A place you raided at lvl 5, giving you T45 armor will spawn a full suit of Enclave-like late-game armor, just because you happen to stumple up on the same place again with lvl 45 or something. I mean ... did someone stock up the place again or something? And of course with late game items as well! How convenient. Something I already hated in Skyrim. A place you already looted is now filled again with generic monsters, items etc. but neatly tied to your new level ...

When it comes to enemies, not exactly. For example after you clean up Corvega, the raiders that spawn there later on will be just as weak, or a bit stronger. But that's because it's so close to the starting point of the game, and level of the enemies is at least partially dependent on location.

But if you go south and find Gunners, their equipment will depend on your level. Early on they will have barely any armor and unmodded weapons, but at level 45+ they will have pimped out combat armor, laser rifles, gauss rifles and all the good stuff. At which point it still will not be enough to do anything to you because you have your weapons and armor modded to the max.

At level ~47 I ran around with a pimped out automatic laser rifle, wrecking anything despite not putting any points into commando perk.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

I’m assuming that level‐scaling is back, considering that my friend found a raider with power armour and he’s level 38. Fallout 2 only had level‐scaling for bounty hunters, and it made sense for them. In Fallout 4, power armour feels less like a potent achievement and more like common loot.

I think those raiders are set to have power armor regardless of level. The loading screens say "Some raider leaders have fixed up old suits of power armor." So I think that isn't level-scaling and those particular raiders are programmed to have it from the start.

Power armor is not an achievement. I have found 2 or 3 suits of Power Armor just sitting randomly in shipping containers littered throughout the wasteland, another in the Boston tunnels, and I don't even roam around that much. I have about 5 suits of power armor just sitting in the garage at this point.

I'm not even using power armor because I don't like the HUD color and it seems that you can't change it.

 

[Someguy37]

I think those raiders are set to have power armor regardless of level. The loading screens say "Some raider leaders have fixed up old suits of power armor." So I think that isn't level-scaling and those particular raiders are programmed to have it from the start.

Some of them are random once you get to higher levels, but most of the early game PA using raiders are set to use them regardless of level. Usually raider bosses as you mentioned.

When it comes to enemies, not exactly. For example after you clean up Corvega, the raiders that spawn there later on will be just as weak, or a bit stronger. But that's because it's so close to the starting point of the game, and level of the enemies is at least partially dependent on location.

But if you go south and find Gunners, their equipment will depend on your level. Early on they will have barely any armor and unmodded weapons, but at level 45+ they will have pimped out combat armor, laser rifles, gauss rifles and all the good stuff. At which point it still will not be enough to do anything to you because you have your weapons and armor modded to the max.

Here's the various area's level ranges according to the guide map.
http://i.imgur.com/f1OD037.png
http://i.imgur.com/KRVBvrB.png

 

[Hassknecht]

Is it necessary that a band of dirty raiders can still pose a threat to you when you're on your way to deal with the Enclave? .

Yes, because The Enclave would only make up like 1% of the enemies in the game due to their small numbers. Which leaves the other 99% of the game needing to be balanced.

Or you get the armour so late that it's already balanced because most of the enemies you'll encounter will be tough enough... Not to mention that combat doesn't need to be the main focus of the game.

 

[Someguy37]

Or you get the armour so late that it's already balanced because most of the enemies you'll encounter will be tough enough... Not to mention that combat doesn't need to be the main focus of the game.

Getting far into the main plot isn't going to magically change that the previous 90% of the gameworld is full of low level raiders because it would be.

What you suggest would be fine if the game was Gear of war/CoD level-based, and linear, and you couldn't go back to do things in older areas of the games, and thus, all you needed was PA because the only thing you could do was the Oil Rig or w/e.

 

[DarkCorp]

And whats the problem with needing to worry about the 1 percent of badguys at the endgame?

This is NOT a balance issue as power armor is a CHOICE. One isn't forced to use PA vs dirty raiders. PA is only ever necessary vs the enclave/sms/master.

In the originals, if players exploit the game to get PA, thereby wussifying 90 percent of the games baddies, thats THEIR fault. What, the game is supposed to fucking hold the hand of the player to make sure he/she gets the 'full' game experience?

And I meant people dying to retarded radscorps early game, without PA. In the originals, unless your character was a total diplomat, they were easily dealt with.

 

[Someguy37]

And whats the problem with needing to worry about the 1 percent of badguys at the endgame?

Because the game doesn't end, thus the entire concept of endgame is meaningless.

This is NOT a balance issue as power armor is a CHOICE. One isn't forced to use PA vs dirty raiders.

One isn't FORCED to use anything against anyone. You can chose to fight super mutants in leather armor is you wish. Still doesn't change the fact all armors should be balanced in regards to each other and the overall games, with none making you so overpowered that you become immune to most of the game.

And I meant people dying to retarded radscorps early game, without PA. In the originals, unless your character was a total diplomat, they were easily dealt with.

The fact that the Temple of Trials has become an internet meme for how many people couldn't get past it says otherwise.

 

[DarkCorp]

1. The game ends when the PC kills the master and blows up the base. The sequel allows you to play on yes. However, without experiencing most of the game already, one isn't going to make it to the oil rig, never mind beat it, without cheesing. Again, not a problem unless the player cheats and spoils a whole bunch of stuff for themselves.

2. So the game needs to hold little Tommy and Tinas' hands, ok. Terrible idea, IMO. Makes sense with players today getting angry when their companions die or have to deal with things like friendly fire.

3. I made it past the temple fine. Results often vary when todays gamers, used to being spoon fed, get killed at the beginning of the original or in the temple.

 

[Someguy37]

1. Like it or not, Fallout 3 and 4 are not designed to end like Fallout 1/2, and its unlikely Bethesda will let Obsidian make a New Vegas 2 that ends given the massive backlash over it, even after they added in the big POINT OF NO RETURN! message. End game means nothing in games that don't end.

2. No, the exact opposite. Hand holding is letting people cheese the game, by getting god like armor at any point, ala Fallout 1/2, making the game have zero, or nearly zero, difficulty, and making them not actually have to play the game. What you describe is hand-holding shit similar to Skyrim, which just lets you craft a sword that does +1000000 damage, allowing you to one hit everything in the game. "WE CANT TELL LITTLE TIMMY NO!" "WE CANT HAVE THE GAME BE DIFFICULT AFTER A CERTAIN POINT!". what you describe is power fantasy bull, greater then even Fallout 4', which does it a lot.

3. I got past it just fine also. It was a meme even a decade+ ago however. "LE DUMB MODERN GAMERZ!" isn't the issue here.

 

[Crni Vuk]

No, the exact opposite. Hand holding is letting people cheese the game, by getting god like armor at any point,

Please stop saying this, as like getting the PA in F2 was somehow ... easy, or didn't require some knowledge about the game, like playing it or reading walktroughs. In F4 the PA is pretty much handed over to you, on a silver plate, in the first 5 min. of the game. And even if you don't, you will find countless of them everywhere in the wasteland.

 

[Askorti]

Oh come on Crni, didn't you know that in fallout 1 you can get PA in the first raider infested settlement you come across after leaving the Vault? Oh, wait, wrong "fallout" game....

 

[whirlingdervish]

omg not the "but you can run across the enclave infested desert regions to navarro, which you shouldn't know is there, save cumming and cheesing, and get the 2nd most powerful armor in the game" argument again..

Even if you did this, you might pick up a plasma pistol and rifle and some ammo, and still get your ass handled by the enclave patrols on your way back to the game area because you're low level and can't kill 4 of them before one of them hits you with a crit as you run off.

In fact, short of using gauss weapons and having a party and a leveled up character, you'll be incredibly lucky to make it back out of Navarro without more save scumming or straight up abusing the combat mechanics to flee the map every time after you did this.


One exploit for Fallout 2 does not make every stupid thing Bethesda does OK. How many times do we have to say this?

 

[Irwin John Finster]

2. No, the exact opposite. Hand holding is letting people cheese the game, by getting god like armor at any point

Do you get headaches from typing this stuff?

You get Power Armor and kill Deathclaws within the first hour of Fallout 4.

 

[DarkCorp]

LOL.

1. We are talking about lore retcons here. The originals were not lootfest/MMO grinds. Second, beating the game is a choice, so technically there is an end game. The freedom to play post end is more for completionists.

2. One had to survive the glow (bare minimum without cheating or by reading spoilers), save the initiate, or repair a broken set, to get power armor.

In the second, you have to somehow survive multiple enclave patrols and make it to Navarro or San Fran to get it. This is not taking into account a new player should have no idea on where San Fran or Navarro is in the early game.

3. Hmm, never really noticed people bitching about it back when I first registered for this site. But even if dumb gamerz isn't the sole problem, its certainly a big part of it.