Bioshock Infinite

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Tagaziel, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I'm surprised we don't have a topic discussing the game.

    To kick off, my incongruous thoughts:

    * While heavily hyped, Bioshock: Infinite actually DOES live up to it.
    * On higher difficulties, especially 1999, the game's a good, fun challenge.
    * The story is awesome. I don't say that often, but it's great.
    * The interplay between Booker, Elizabeth, and Comstock is brilliant. Unlike Bioshock, this is very much a character-centric story for which Columbia is a backdrop, which is good in my book.
    * Although I was skeptical, Ken Levine came through and his game is truly original and doesn't rip off System Shock 2.
    * Comstock House. Most horrifying experience I had in a looong time.
    * Elizabeth is, for me, the best written and coded companion/character this year.
    * It's brilliant.

    I feel that if you can only buy one game this year, this should be it.
  2. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    It's great and the Luteces are fantastic characters but the story, while very good, isn't exactly airtight and there are some things that could/should have been addressed better. Also the sound the tears make when you point the camera at them annoyed me to no end in arenas full of them. Also Elizabeth should have had some more reactions to the environment or more interaction with Booker, she is a bit muted. I mean, look at this (spoiler warning)

    Ending is fantastic though and it's mindbowling that you can't upgrade everything! :O
  3. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    While it is true that there should have been more unique interactions for Elizabeth, I felt that the current state of the game is still good in this regard. I think its awesome that she also points out goodies to pick up (I would've missed several lockpicks if it wasn't for her) and the sarcastic wit she is endowed with is awesome.

    Looking at it from another angle, though, I think it's understandable that eventually Elizabeth becomes more withdrawn and muted. In the span of hours after breaking her out of confinement she's forced to bear dozens of traumatic experiences that would break lesser people.

    I think my favourite little touch is how her transition from a girl to a woman is marked in the game, after the last vestiges of innocence are torn down by her own hand.

    By the way, which parts aren't airtight? I'm curious if we're thinking about the same things.
  4. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    That part is generally handled well, but there are parts where she uses one of her gameplay quips that clashes with the tone of the moment.

    Elizabeth:I can't get used to the killing :(
    Booker:Can you open this lock?
    Elizabeth:Can do! :)

    I think it's faulty programming because some of her lines for those moments are appropriate in tone.

    Well, I have to replay it yet (bought a Move yesterday, curious to see how well it works), but off the top of my head:

    [spoiler:05c99e9d39]-Booker angst for 20 years for her daughter and when the Luteces call him back he's in perfect fighting conditions

    -We are told that travelling trough dimensions makes people near the tears merge their memories together (Chel Lin, the dead soldiers, Booker and the dead Booker) but later we are told that travelling through dimensions makes the brain recreate memories where there's none (?)

    -Why did the Luteces wanted to reinforce the false memories of Booker, by the way? The "bring the girl back to NY" in the box, "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt, this is your last chance", "don't disappoint us" on the body in the lighthouse. You can come up with good reasons but the game gives absolutely zero justifications.

    -At one point Book & Eli jump dimensions twice and end in a dimension where Booker is dead and in a message he says that Elizabeth was probarbly brought to Comstock house and the Memorial was empty. So...what happened to that second Elizabeth? Does that mean that when we save Beth later she is actually a different Elizabeth from a dimension where they never jumped dimensions?

    -Ok, so Flink spied Rapture through a tear and copied the plasmids. How did he copied them without ADAM? Why they work with salts?[/spoiler:05c99e9d39]

    Other things aren't plotholes but just awfully convenient stuff.
  5. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Yeah, it's an oversight. I was lucky enough to not have this situation, with Liz being pretty reasonable (and in the context, lockpicking felt like a way for her to stop thinking about dead people for a moment).

    I think Irrational simply forgot to divide the responses into those that are played both when Liz is content and not, and those that are played when she's dealing with trauma.

    [spoiler:d7db9c607e]- I think he was working for Pinkerton's most of that time, before getting kicked out and ending up on the bottom of the bottle. It is also possible that he came from an universe where Anna and his wife both died in childbirth.

    - I think it refers to one and the same process. The nosebleed is a side-effect of the brain absorbing new memories (good thing Booker doesn't stroke out).

    - Motivation? I think that after 122 tries, they really needed to make sure Booker doesn't fail or lose track of the objective (like in the case of Martyr Booker). The dead guy at the lighthouse was an assassin sent by Comstock, the Luteces simply made sure he didn't get the jump on Booker.

    - It's complicated. I think Old Liz sent us back to the universewith "our" Elizabeth, who replaced the one on Monument Island (who may have been already saved by another Booker). I think it's left unresolved, because the game already introduces enough temporal paradoxes and having two Elizabeths at once would probably make Booker's head explode.

    - I have no idea how vigors work. Maybe Fink used Tenenbaum's finished work as source and then looked across the world for alternatives to ADAM slugs?[/spoiler:d7db9c607e]
  6. Multidirectional

    Multidirectional Mildly Dipped

    Sep 12, 2008
    The only consistently enjoyable thing about this game to me is atmosphere. I grow bored with actual gameplay rather quickly. It's ok'ish to play in short bursts, an hour at a time or so. Shooting mechanics are about as satisfying as in first Bioshock, which is to say - not at all.
  7. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I guess we're different. I always found the feedback incredibly satisfying, especially Bioshock's pump-action shotgun, which brough back memories of Doom 1's shotgun.

    The hand cannon is my favourite in Infinite. Wish upgrades applied to the weapon would appear on it, like in BS1, thought.
  8. Arden

    Arden Still Mildly Glowing

    Feb 26, 2010
    Thanks guys, sounds like a good purchase then, but I need one more piece of info: how long does a playthrough take?
  9. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I don't have the numbers (played on my brother's computer), but I estimate it at around 15 hours for me, maybe slightly less. I didn't explore everything there was to explore, though, and may have missed a few spots, since I was going through the game faster than usual (not playing on my own PC).
  10. SuAside

    SuAside Testament to the ghoul lifespan

    May 27, 2004
    General comments:
    - The menus are console shit. Settling for this kind of menus is downright disappointing.
    - Checkpoint saves are console shit and needs to die a horrible & painful death. Sure, it's simple & easy to implement, but it's lazy and retarded.

    Gameplay comments:
    - The extreme limit on guns carried is quite silly in my eyes. I could've lived with 1 handgun & 2 longarms for instance, but the current way to do it, is quite annoying. I suspect this was primarily implemented since playtesting revealed people did not use their vigors enough.
    - I quite enjoyed popping headshots with the M1 Carbine, but found many other guns unappealing. I also ended up not really using the vigors quite as much as you're supposed to, except near the end. I always try to save powers and stuff for when shits gets tough, but hoarding here makes no sense.
    - With your little helper by your side, you nearly never run out of ammo, health or spirit. I'm not sure if I quite like that game mechanic. The ammo can be quite scarce at time, so that's kinda trying to force you to get you to alternate your playstyles, but with Liz by your side, you've got your own personal TF2 dispenser on your back.
    - I am not a fan of ressurection in the game. Though I only died once (due to carelessness on my part), so I nearly missed that it was possible. :s

    Story comments:
    - I quite enjoyed the general themes: religious zealotry, sects, hero worship, political manipulation, racism, slavery, parallel universes, power going to one's head,... But the problem was they were too "in your face" from the moment they're shown in the game. I think the game would've made a lot bigger impact if they had fooled you into liking the society at the start, to then suckerpunch you in the gut by showing what's going on behind the scenes to make this "perfect" society work.
    - Even if not entirely explained ingame, pretty much everything can be 'spun' to acceptable levels. The game is pretty consistent, so that's good.

    The ending (there be spoilers ahead):
    The ending is pretty OK and it is very predictable in my eyes that the Booker you play would have to die to redeem himself. They work up to it throughout the entire game, so I'm somewhat at a loss to hear so many people did not see it coming or did not understand it.
    The fact that Booker=Comstock is evident from the start, though I falsely believed at the start that Rosalind could potentially turn out to be an older Elizabeth.
  11. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    It's a great game alright, but I have gripes with it;

    -The guns and their upgrades are fairly boring, and have no special ammo. Seriously, +dmg and reload speed upgrades and thats it? Where are my flaming Rivet Gun? My rocket spear launcher? My electric shotgun? Those are far more interesting. Also only two weapons kinda sucks, they should have gone for 3 or 4 like in Far Cry 3. The guns also feel kinda... weak? Except for the Hand Cannon which seemingly everyone uses. I liked the Carbine myself.

    -Vigors are recycled plasmids, I don't think there's a single original Vigor save maybe for Bucking Bronco. They could really have added some novelty.

    -The story is good, but I'm bummed that they completely abandonned the political side of the plot to focus exclusively on the metaphysical. The Founders and Vox Populi conflict ultimately become excuses to have you shoot blue and red guys, respectively. Also the ending was a bit... contrived? I can't put my finger on it. But maybe it's because [spoiler:d488e9ed6b] I just dislike all those trime travel and reality warping nonsense in general, albeit the after-credit scene does hint at a good ending and wraps things up so it's not bad. [/spoiler:d488e9ed6b]

    -Checkpoint system in an exploration-driven game? Meh...

    -The Skyrail concept is great, but underused. There's maybe 5-6 combat arenas that really use them, which is a shame because it's very, very fun to zip around on them.

    Laundry list of things I liked now;

    -Elizabeth is both a great character (a female that's not a damsel in distress nor a cliche action girl) and a great NPC with cool interactions and numerous uses in combat. Never felt like an escort mission and not having her around later on was weird sometimes.

    -Enemy variery is nice, I really liked fighting the Patriots, albeit the Siren and Handymen are a bit too annoying.

    -Gorgeous visuals. I still slightly prefer Rapture's art design, but Columbia is beautiful.

    -Likeable characters in general, my favourites were the Luteces (and what would you know, Jennifer Hale strikes yet again with her fantastic voice acting). Comstock was a bit over-the-top however, but I guess that's the point.

    -Good challenge on Hard/1999 mode, albeit I'm slightly dissapointed the latter only buffs enemy HP and damage, rather than do anything meaningful.

    -Just long enough, it doesn't overstay its welcome.

    -The overall combat is still satisfying, even if the guns could really use some work.

    -Good PC port. Yes, we are in a day and age where this has to be pointed out.
  12. CthuluIsSpy

    CthuluIsSpy A Smooth-Skin

    Dec 20, 2011
    I didn't like it that much, tbh.

    It felt...unfinished to me. I was expecting something a bit more.

    Both factions are complete, almost cartoonish assholes. The game felt a lot more linear than the previous too, probably having something do with the decision to add checkpoints, and the ending felt...rushed.

    Also, Comstock House. What was up with that, and why was it over so soon? That level was great! Probably one of the few times stealth is necessary (and functional).

    I also disagree with the idea that no matter what you choose, the outcome will be same. To me that just came across as them being lazy and trying to avoid actual choices and input into the game.

    The game isn't terrible mind you, it is a good game, I just don't think it lives up to its hype.
  13. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    So far the game put me through lots of corridors with the occasional plaza to explore the meaningless loot, sometimes interrupted by the obnoxious cutscene that ofcourse can't be skipped. I am enjoying parts of the city and it's atmosphere, but I don't see what's supposed to be so special about it. Dropped the game for some days but will keep playing in hope it gets better, although I already cringe just thinking about that some stupid NPC will follow me all the goddamn time..
  14. Stanislao Moulinsky

    Stanislao Moulinsky Vault Fossil

    Jul 16, 2009
    What level have you played on? In my Hard playthrough she threw me two items per battle at best.
  15. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    Yeah. Liz is a life saver on 1999, not a dispenser. I stopped counting the times she saved Booker's ass in my playthrough.

    As for the ending,

    [spoiler:2d16bf4fff]the alternate realities theory postulates that actions create alternate universes. Since Comstock's baptism is the action from which all the realities develop, drowning Comstock removed an entire branch of realities that never should've existed and restores Booker to his life in 1983.

    Except richer for all the knowledge he gained and certainty that his daughter has genius-level IQ.[/spoiler:2d16bf4fff]
  16. gabahadatta

    gabahadatta First time out of the vault

    Jun 8, 2005
    Overall, for me: It is a very good game, but with a great deal of potential wasted. It has a great story (and audio design) and very average gameplay/shooting mechanics.

    The game has a poor start (the first thing you encounter after beginning is some meaningless loot that draws you away from the story before you can dive in it), rather boring first half (slow story progress with only few interesting moments, too many and too boring fights), poor game-play and story-wise mid-game boss, nice second half, and awesome ending that makes you forget most of the flaws you encountered earlier.

    B:I also feels a little "shallow" at times. I.e. citizens of Colombia behave like talking mannequins, are not believable. They have no character nor story. The overall feeling is similar to watching a scene at the museum rather than actual living people. Or they behave in an absurd way like:
    "Hey! Don't cross that line or we will turn into mindless zombies and attack you! We can't harm you and we will surely die? So what? We are poor and starving and you have a lot of money and are willing to buy that bottle from us? No way, we will rather die!" etc".
    things like that are breaking immersion for me instead of enriching it.
    Overall I feel that this project rendered to be too ambitious for the team capabilities and/or at the later stage of development someone in the management was afraid that there was not enough action/shooting and devs had to implement/develop that side of the game in a hurry (and because of that nor the storytelling nor shooting parts could be polished)

    This video nailed B:I problems pretty nice:


    Actually, checkpoints are there not because it's "retarded console shit so let's use it" but because of many heavily scripted events and fights during game - loading game while script is in progress will break the whole event. In other words: since B:I is filled with long, complex scripted encounters, bug-free free save system would probably be almost impossible to implement.
    Yes, it is annoying, but unfortunately necessary.
  17. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    check points

    aww well, looks like I have to skip this game :|
  18. Makta

    Makta The DICKtator

    Jul 29, 2010
    Passing on a "awesome" game just for that? :|

    Seeing how i loved the first game but never tried the 2 others.. How would you rated this compared to the first? Or the second one? Thinking of picking up all 3 soon but i'm not sure.
  19. gabahadatta

    gabahadatta First time out of the vault

    Jun 8, 2005
    For me it is not as good as the first one, but still good and definitely worth playing.
    I think on average it is better than the second one, but has both more excellent and more annoying elements/moments.
  20. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    All dying means is that you restart at a checkpoint 5 seconds away from where you died, losing nothing but a few dollars.

    Because enemies have hitscan weapons and bosses have massive HP pools, it becomes extremely difficult to stay alive at high difficulties. Health management is not a function of player skill but a timer on how long you can stay exposed. This does not make the game hard, only tedious, because it is still impossible to fail.

    The only way dying inconveniences you is a tiny, tiny amount of wasted time and draining your cash, which means you won't be able to buy as many upgrades or resources which in turn means that you will die more for reasons that really are not in your direct control, leading to more wasted time.

    This is what we call "shitty systems design."

    No it's not. The story is not especially interesting or complicated. The setting itself is evocative and there are good character moments sprinkled throughout the game. But the story? As in, the plot? No, it's nothing special, and if you look closely for a second it has dozens upon dozens of gaping plot holes everywhere, flimsy character motivations. The entire middle section of the game is full of pointless A->B->C->D fetch quests which have nothing to do with the overall story and which serve no purpose whatsoever except to waste time by throwing you into shooting gallery after shooting gallery, often using the same environments 2 or 3 times over.

    The game has massive, massive problems with tone and themes. It thinks that by including topics like race in a story, somehow you are providing commentary. It goes from being an inspiring Disney-style adventure to an extremely dark exploration of how violence impacts individuals. It's a coming of age story for Elizabeth. It's a mind-screw adventure. It tries to be an arthouse piece. In the end it is none of these because it can't pick any one and stick to it. As a result it just falls flat.

    Booker and Elizabeth do have some nice moments, but Comstock? Comstock is just a racist caricature who wants to rule the world because he's evil. Most other players in the story are just stand-ins for ideologies and personifications of social issues, not characters in their own right.

    Right. It just rips off Halo and Half-Life 2 instead, with less effective world-building and gameplay than both. Genius!

    You must have not played too many games.

    You mean with her innovative AI that lets her pull consumables out of her ass for the player, or teleport around the environment so she can do idle animations on the scenery?

    Why is it brilliant? Because it's a generic shooter with nice art direction and a mind-screw ending which even the developers likely did not think through very much and decided that if they made something vague and weird enough it'd trick people into thinking it was deep and thoughtful? It's the Lost of videogames.

    Or you can find Half-Life 2 for $5 or less and play the same game but better.