Bioware Backlash
- Thread starter Treyster
- Start date
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Fuck's sake, why are people putting words into her mouth like that? She never said she hates games or don't want to play them or anything of the sort. She said she prefers the narrative aspect, and would like to fast-forward the combat (that said combat composes the vast majority of a Bioware game is another problem entirely) because she isin't good at it. That's it. And it was 6 years ago, and she mentions in the interview (interestingly, that part never comes up in the otherwise heavily edited Reddit article that sparked that ridiculous keyboard warrior crusade) that she was pregnant and as such could not devote much time to actually playing games. Not only that, but people are attacking her for ruining Bioware when the only thing we know about her writing is that she did the Deep Roads portion of Origins, which are way too goddamn long but have some good (imo) writing.
I'm not really responding to you in perticular, WesDude, just to the whole bunch of whining loons. Criticism is all fine and dandy, but people should get their damn facts straight.
brfritos
Humma Kavulaaaaaaa
Ilosar said:
To be honest I think the whole subject is totally out of proportion.
I mean, she's a fucking writer, not a gamer!!!
She doesn't like combat, ok.
And the problem is...
Jennifer Hale also stated in tons of interviews she don't like to play games, never played ANY of the titles she worked on, but people don't bash on her because of this.
The only thing the article has a point is that Bioware seems to have lost her patience.
The devs in the official community are being extremelly rude and snarky with the fans, sometimes with reason, most times without it.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
Suffice to say the BSN can be a pretty nasty place, and I can somewhat understand that they want to police the impossibly whiny fans there. But let's drop it, no discussion about moderator actions on other forums here IIRC.
TheWesDude
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Ilosar said:
well, i would like to know her breadth of gaming experience.
its all about context and exposure.
if she has not played many games, or at least games with real story and not contrived story like halo, then her being a writer for a "rpg" company is kinda weird.
there are lots of RPGs and even the older ones with great story and great writing.
i dont care if she plays games she has written for. i dont care if she plays primarily console games. what i do care about is someone who writes for RPGs without playing other works in that field.
otherwise she is writing in a vacuum. without context or exposure to her medium. which means she cannot be considered an "artist" as being an artist requires context and exposure.
and if you are taking my position as a slight against her, you are very wrong. i do not blame her in the least. who i do blame is the people in bioware that hired her to contribute/create art ( words/story ) for a medium she has no real context or exposure to.
DevilTakeMe
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Ben said:
I'd like to point out at this point that other games, like L.A. Noire, would let you skip the "action" if you failed at it... a lot.
DevilTakeMe said:
Yup. I personally couldn't give a hoot, granted that developers will likely never assume that the majority of players will be skipping the combat portions of the game. I'd only have a problem with skipping combat if it seemed to lessen the quality of that part of the game.
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
She explicitely said that she felt that way at the time because she was pregnant/on maternity leave and thus had no time to play many games. She also lacks the hand-eye coordination to play many real-time games correctly, which is a pretty common occurence really. Whenever she has played other RPGs I have no idea, and I don't much care, as her job is to write, and given the available info, she is not the abyssal writer some people portray her as. It has nothing to do with ''content'' or ''exposure''. It's nobody's business whenever she likes the same game as them (because this is what the argument is about here, I'm sorry). She never said she hates games or doesn't enjoy playing them, I wish people would stop claiming that.
All in all she's just a spacegoat for a fraction of the gamer population that hate Bioware for various reasons now, and those idiots find her an easy target because she said something that can easily be twisted in a scandalous declaration and she doesn't look like a Victoria's Secret supermodel. And let's not get into the sexually insecure twats that complain that ''homosexuality was forced down their throats''.
well the "homosexual option" feels kinda artifical though in recent Bioware games.
The notion that she can't possibly be a good writer for a video game company because she doesn't play video games is asinine, sorry. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people involved in video game development actually play video games less than you'd think, if at all. It really has no bearing on their ability on way or the other.
Also, taking this... "incident" as indicative of some kind of larger backlash against Bioware is stretching it. In the real world, Bioware is still very successful, ME3 will sell like hotcakes, and SW:tOR is actually doing very well (no, I don't care if you hate MMOs). I'd be the first to tell you that popularity and quality do not go hand-in-hand, but that's not the point. The point is, Bioware and their products are still held in high-esteem by most of the gaming community.
Really, their shit isn't that bad. ME1/2 were fun and I'm looking forward to number 3, regardless of whether not they strictly adhere to the "RPG" moniker (who cares?) or if the quality of the writing falls short when compared to the classic Fallouts (but certainly is far superior to what you'd find in any modern Bethesda title). But then, I enjoy games like Halo (I'm specifically referring to the first one here), Final Fantasy, etc. so I suppose my tastes run counter to a lot of the "oh woe for the golden-age of cRPGs, everything that comes out now is shite" population around here.
Also, taking this... "incident" as indicative of some kind of larger backlash against Bioware is stretching it. In the real world, Bioware is still very successful, ME3 will sell like hotcakes, and SW:tOR is actually doing very well (no, I don't care if you hate MMOs). I'd be the first to tell you that popularity and quality do not go hand-in-hand, but that's not the point. The point is, Bioware and their products are still held in high-esteem by most of the gaming community.
Really, their shit isn't that bad. ME1/2 were fun and I'm looking forward to number 3, regardless of whether not they strictly adhere to the "RPG" moniker (who cares?) or if the quality of the writing falls short when compared to the classic Fallouts (but certainly is far superior to what you'd find in any modern Bethesda title). But then, I enjoy games like Halo (I'm specifically referring to the first one here), Final Fantasy, etc. so I suppose my tastes run counter to a lot of the "oh woe for the golden-age of cRPGs, everything that comes out now is shite" population around here.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
I agree that the reaction is extreme but to claim that gamers are the only people on the internet who do this is equally stupid. I also think that it is fair to call them out for sinking to the same level of inane vulgarity. If you are going to respond with insults then they need to be witty and, as a professional, should avoid expletives.
Ignoring the fact that RPGs tend to have inferior combat to games to focus on said type of combat, there are a number of genres that have no combat at all. Puzzle games, adventure games, visual novels, hell a lot of board games have extremely simplistic combat. The point is that it's not a requirement for the game and she has something of a point that many RPGs, which are so plot heavy (quality aside), could work fine as an interactive story. That said, that she has a point is arguably something of a problem. The narrative should should be written so that it's more entwined with the combat, and I don't mean that it should interrupt it. Bastion and Arkham Asylum are good examples of games whose narrative flows with the gameplay.ZeusComplex said:The idea of a "skip combat" option is pretty absurd in my eyes. Then why make games? If she wants to write un-interactive content, then stick with books. Or movies.
You add it to broaden your market share. People do in fact watch youtube collections of all of the cinematics from games so why not integrate that option into the game and sell more copies? There is a false dichotomy being presented here which is that it's a choice between better combat or this. That said, doing more intricate things like removing all of the enemies from a game is far more of a technical challenge than she seems to understand and could have an effect on the rest of the content.ZeusComplex said:
I hadn't noticed the name, once sea pointed it out the article started to make more sense. Your description of him is apt.Brother None said:
Ilosar
Vault Fossil
I'll give you that four of the five potential romances being bisexual in DA2 was really stretching it, but the point of contention was that she wrote Anders, who at one point makes a move unto the player regardless of gender, and you can't turn him down without Rivalry points from him (which is logical, if you ask me). This was interpreted as ''forcing homosexuality'' by the aforementionned sexually insecure twats. There was a small controversy when some guy whined about it on the BSN and David Gaider basically told him to shut it and stop being homophobic.
Kyuu said:
It really isn't, they dropped an incredible number of players after the first free month ended. Mass Effect will keep them afloat, but TOR's been steadily sinking since the start.
Ilosar said:
For me at least its not about the fact that they are there as option. It is about how silly they are written. The quality of it is what concerns me. It simply feels artificial. That is all.
Homosexuality in gams ? Sure. No problem with it. As long it feels natural.
Take Fallout Vegas. You are not thrown with "wow sex here with that character!" around every corner. In fact, one of the most intelligent companions is a homosexual. And yet he comes of like a usual dude (as far as "usual" goes for a wasteland). I would not mind a "sex" option here either. But it is not needed. That is what I personally see as mature writing.
Fuck. If I want sex everywhere or a sex option with every character then I will go watch a porno. Not play a game. Sex for itself is not mature at all. As like in some article I have read about "sexuality" and "sex" in todays video games. It seems like many game developers do it like 14 year old school girls/boys when it comes to sex where they write down "cock" and "vagina" feeling mature but giggling at the same time like crazy.
Hoxie said:
How about you wait 6 months post (successful)launch to have a look at subscription number? Also anecdotes aren't statistics.
And a number of the players they didn't lose were the people who wanted to unsubscribe, but couldn't because they hid the button in some fine print ON THE LAST DAY of the free month. And when people started posting a workaround in the forums, the threads were systematically deleted. I'm glad I didn't get on board that ship.Hoxie said:
Any links fedaykin, that's interesting info I seem to have missed. I did catch the TOR Dancing Exploit thing .fedaykin said:
Back to topic the whole thing reminds me of Interplay boards after release of BOS, somewhat ironic.
ZeusComplex
Still Mildly Glowing
The best romance Bioware has ever done is still Baldur's Gate 2. It was subtle, and sweet. As a romance should be. You could completely mess it up without even knowing it, and it added a bit of emotional involvement with the character you where having the romance with. Heck, one of the characters will flat out end the relationship with you, if you jump straight into the sex option. I thought that was pretty clever.
I guess I should rephrase my comment since I don't want to come off as ignorant. Combat in a game where combat adds to the story shouldn't be skipped. Maybe if there is an option to watch the combat in a abrigged cutscene, I can see it being a option I would take. Bioware games are built off the excitement and drama of combat. Adding in the option would take away a large majority of the drama and impact, in my opinion. If the drama is portrayed through a daring and challenging boss fight, then skipping it outright would lessen the impact of the event. But yes, there are ways to play a game without combat or action. Hell, in games where I'm able to take a diplomatic path, I will usually try to take it both for the challenge and satisfaction of completing it. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I really don't get the idea of skipping content.
Talking to friends about this matter however, I'm actually surprised at the amount of people that would love to skip certain parts of certain games to get to the story. I'm proving my argument wrong now, and I realize it. But I guess I'm in a minority of this subject. Like I stated, I just don't understand it.
I guess I should rephrase my comment since I don't want to come off as ignorant. Combat in a game where combat adds to the story shouldn't be skipped. Maybe if there is an option to watch the combat in a abrigged cutscene, I can see it being a option I would take. Bioware games are built off the excitement and drama of combat. Adding in the option would take away a large majority of the drama and impact, in my opinion. If the drama is portrayed through a daring and challenging boss fight, then skipping it outright would lessen the impact of the event. But yes, there are ways to play a game without combat or action. Hell, in games where I'm able to take a diplomatic path, I will usually try to take it both for the challenge and satisfaction of completing it. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I really don't get the idea of skipping content.
Talking to friends about this matter however, I'm actually surprised at the amount of people that would love to skip certain parts of certain games to get to the story. I'm proving my argument wrong now, and I realize it. But I guess I'm in a minority of this subject. Like I stated, I just don't understand it.