Black or White: Making Moral Choices in Video Games

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
In part one of an editorial on morality in video games, GameSpot discusses the need for morality in games and the oft black-and-white nature of them. Part two highlights the Witcher, Fallout 3, Fable and BioWare titles from KotOR onwards, the author blissfully unaware of games that did it better but are, y'know, old.<blockquote>When Bethesda first looked to acquire the Fallout licence, one of the things that stood out for the publishers was the way the series handled morality. While the game's Karma system tracked players’ good, evil and neutral deeds, there was also a strong sense of moral ambiguity, meaning choices and actions went beyond the simple 'good' or 'evil'. Bethesda found this complexity convincing, and sought to implement a similar morality system in Fallout 3 that, while mechanically different, had the same spirit.

Emil Pagliarulo, lead designer for Fallout 3, says this has less to do with a well-designed morality system, and more to do with the players becoming invested in the game world.

“I’ve always felt that Bethesda’s style of games --typically first-person, with high-detail environments-- lends itself very well to this, simply because the environments are so believable so it’s much easier to get immersed and feel like you’re closer to the world and its characters,” Pagliarulo said.</blockquote>Graphics are the answer to everything.<blockquote>In Fallout 3, Pagliarulo and his team tried to ensure the morality meter was neither fleeting nor predictable. For example, while players know that stealing from someone’s house when they’re not around will be registered as a morally bad action by the game’s Karma system, there are a lot of situations that are left morally grey on purpose. Pagliarulo says the reason for this is because he didn’t want players to feel like the developers were the ones deciding what was right and what was wrong.

“We wanted players to make their own determinations. It was a real challenge for us to try and balance all this stuff out and to provide players with gameplay that was completely morally grey in some instances while having a Karma system that tracked specific good and bad actions in other instances.”</blockquote>
 
I love how the employees in bethesda always seem to put out their opinions like they are facts.

"People like limited moral choices in 3D environments because it looks, and hence, feels better than complex moral choices in 1D or whatever environments."

..

I recall there beeing this one guy in bethesda (quest designer or something) that went against the moral restrictiveness the company put forth (like how a npc can NEVER lie to the pc.), and how he got fired for doing so (though he didn't really say that in his departing post, but one can put the puzzle together).
 
I do agree that the art of making convincing grey and black situations. Most grey situations are just no-wins and most guys think evil is just Chaotic, with all the theft and barbaric headsmashing. I like Lawful Evil; the elaborate mindfucking or screwing over of some poor bastard you just met for the hell of it. Instead of stealing his money or killing him to get his house or valuables, you trick the law into doing it for you.

However, they need to do it without slowing the game down. Planescape featured this kind of stuff, but it felt like a friggin interactive novel with a little combat to me. Sometimes, I just want to get to the action of a story.
 
"We didn't want to make all the moral decisions for the player, so we gave them two a three choices we can later brag about" is what that last quote reads like.

Making stealing unambiguously bad, even if the owner does not exist, is in some ways a lot more damaging to the game's morality system than, say, railroading a quest or two (of which there still was plenty).
 
I blame Fallout (Don't kill me!) for this karma stuff. I really don't need a meter to tell me I'm evil, good, or neutral, but Fallout was pretty damn popular and everybody's like, "Hey, Fallout had it, that game kicked ass, let's put this our game!"
 
The karma system in Fallout is there to tell the player that his character is good or evil based on his actions in the game and this is how the rest of the game world will perceive AND will therefore react upon. I see it as a "just to let you know, this is how you're viewed".
 
I'm only vaguely familiar with very old games, but I'd guess that a comparable Karma system existed in some shape or form before FO. It was never implemented very well though. With the coming of Fable the Console RPG, it got completely ruined; the system in FO3 feels a lot like the one in Fable than like the one in FO or BG.

The closest to a decent "karma" system I've seen was the Virtue mod for BG2:ToB (the one that added "virtue" as general morality to the already existing "reputation" variable, and allowed for the alignment of the character to shift depending on actions).
 
x'il said:
The karma system in Fallout is there to tell the player that his character is good or evil based on his actions in the game and this is how the rest of the game world will perceive AND will therefore react upon. I see it as a "just to let you know, this is how you're viewed".
Reputation is different from karma. Hey, I screwed over 5 cities, but I made one the best I could make it. Does that make me evil? Maybe, but hey. That one city could absorb the others and create a utopia or something. I think karma is a bit silly, as it's based on what the dev's think is good and evil. The Tenpenny Tower quest comes to mind, here.
 
Beside some companions and three dawg, was there any npc ingame who really cared about the players karma? Can't think of any.

In my opinion, karma is pretty much useless in Fallout 3 and so is the "morality". It just fits perfectly to the type of games Oblivion and Fallout 3 are.... games for imagination. You imagine everything in this games. You imagine that you are a good thief, you imagine that you a peaceful person, you imagine that you are roleplaying, you imagine just everything...
 
Karma bars are useless in any game. I really am not that stupid to not know I'm fucking shit up for the poor civies.

And isn't imagining you are doing something roleplaying :) ?
 
x'il said:
The karma system in Fallout is there to tell the player that his character is good or evil based on his actions in the game and this is how the rest of the game world will perceive AND will therefore react upon. I see it as a "just to let you know, this is how you're viewed".

Yes, in Fallout 1 and 2, Karma is basically a fancy word for Reputation, which got completely misinterpreted in FO3.
 
Lexx said:
Beside some companions and three dawg, was there any npc ingame who really cared about the players karma? Can't think of any.

Your dad berates you if you blew up Megaton. And then he pretty much goes on the same as always. CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCE, HELL YEAH.
 
Brother None said:
Lexx said:
Beside some companions and three dawg, was there any npc ingame who really cared about the players karma? Can't think of any.

Your dad berates you if you blew up Megaton. And then he pretty much goes on the same as always. CHOICE AND CONSEQUENCE, HELL YEAH.

Not to mention he barely reacts humanly when you first meet him after combing the wasteland (searching for a "middle aged guy") and saving him from the matrix. And he delivers it all in a monotonous voice. Sigh...

Anyway, I don't think moral meters are meaningless... I mean we are talking about RPGs where you are The Hero of a larger-than-life-uber-quest, your actions deciding the fate of entire settlements... If the game was just about you trying make it in an incomprehensible, indifferent and immovable world... then yes, moral meters would be useless because morally gray situations would present themselves in every action. But with the aforementioned bigger-than-life plots, saving/ruining people is pretty much what you get to do.
 
I have more issues with the fact that sadly quite a lot of games are quite similar to Fallout 3 when it comes to "moral" and just go the very easy way with the simple extremes in either black OR white usualy.

But I think my view is anyway just either a minority or to ... complex? I dont know.

I have not played all RPGs of course but quite a lot over the last 15 years and I only found one "RPG" so far that did not offered you just the "extremes" of moral choices and consquences.

Even when you have games that offer you 2 or even 3 possible solutions to a issue its most of the time already from the begining predetermined, you always know what youre doing is either "good" "bad" or sometimes "neutral" and you get for everything most of the time in one way or another a equal reward with some exception here and there. You always see the game judge your actions and telling you the ethics behind it (and it often eough seems to me to be pretty close to a typical "chstian" or "western" view of "ethics"). Or to say it that way, its more in the game about what the programmer has seen as acceptable for "good" and "bad". Youre more playing the developers definition what a good or bad action is then see a world that would judge you on the "belief"of the NPCs and its groups.

Actions even if started with "good" intentions could lead to bad results or could be just seen by the characters as bad. For example. In a society about violance and crime how many would see a lenient sentence as the "good" answer and death punishment as "wrong"? Most games also do not really make you "pay" for your decisions, probably cause I guess most people see that as much to frustrating which I can understand but actualy I like such things I mean those simple "black" vs "white" games never ever really challange your moral and ehtics really. I have read somewhre that aprox 70% of the players go for the "good" solution even when the evil one contains the same reward. Now how many would still decide to be "good" when they would have to face a sacrifice ? Beeing "good" isnt always easy. Actualy most people are "bad" in real cause its so easy to do the wrong thing. I think it would be nice from time to time if a game would challange you in that and give you a reason to chose something cause you have decided to play that special character and thus give you a reason to roleplay. A Paladin would NEVER go for the bad solution even if it means that he has to willingly accept a punishment while a mage or some other character ventualy would care for other reasons usualy the morale or ethics of the organisation he is part of.

One of the few games which surprised me in that was Planescape Tourment where it really was for me at least impossible to judge any organisation or solution as either "bad" or "good" you really had to go with what you like more and most of the characters would judge you on their beliefs or at least on what the organisation would see as right. That was pretty entertaining even confusing sometimes.
 
A few, nothing big for certain. Also, the biggest consequences of your actions are that your party members may turn against you, if we are talking about in-game consequences, not what happens after the game ends. And then there's the thing with Morrigan at the end of the game, but that doesn't make up for being free to do whatever the hell you want.

Alas, the game is good, but Bioware still fails to understand moray grayness or the concept of choices&consequences.
 
terebikun said:
Dragon Age has some good gray choices, you guys...

Guys?

Some as in, three? :lol:

OakTable said:
Karma bars are useless in any game. I really am not that stupid to not know I'm fucking shit up for the poor civies.

No they aren't. Karma/Reputation/Alignment adds a lot to gameplay if it's implemented well, and isn't just for show like in FO3. In short, if it does something for you (changes reactions, affects story/quests, or maybe gives you different abilities) - then it's good. It doesn't really matter if it's more of less gray like PS:T or entirely B&W like KOTOR or Fable. IMHO it's not so much about grayness as it is about good design.
 
I dont think it has that much to do with design.

A game can have a very well designed quests and story and still just deliver only the typical "fantasy" good vs. evil cliche. I enjoy quite a lot of Bioware games for what they are "good" games. But they definetly do only touch the surface when it comes to a real ethic or moral chalange.

I am not a that big fan of "karma-o-meters" in games as usualy most games tend to simplify it a lot even Fallout (not talking about FINO 3)

What I have read about Age of Decadence though sounds like a very interesting approach where karma is somewhat replaced with reputation which you get from the different factions in the game. What ever if the game will be finished but it makes to me a lot more sense that people or at least organisations would judge you differently because of their principles and their own understanding of ethics.

Bioware RPGs just do here what most RPGs do, they already judge your action long before you even did it which makes it a bit pointless in my eyes. But well doesnt mean those games are bad or flawed. Would be like complaining about Hollywood which usualy as well delivers more or less cliche elements. Its I guess what sells and thus what people get. What I think is sad is just that at least with movies you have a lot of exceptions from the rule and many movies which are great and do not try to just go for a mainstream entertaiment if one can call it even that. Games particularly RPGs have become so narrow and focused on "what sells good" that developers and publishers dont even consider to do something outside of the box or something which is clearly going in a different direction.

What ever if Planescape now was a really good RPG or not is a matter of taste of course but fact is that a pretty big RPG developer and Interplay was quite big in that field in the past had at least the freedom to try a unusual way for a game and I think they had success. Today they would not even consider "trying" it anymore and its most of the time left to indi-games or modders. Sadly.
 
Oh dear, game morality. I wrote a lengthy piece on that topic a while back, mainly because I got vastly annoyed at how games handle morality, partly because I wanted to see whether there was any interest on a game 'developer' (meaning, lots of enthusiasts, a few actual dev's) forum for fleshing out morality. It turned into a nice debate, and one thing is, people might not actually want to be bothered by moral dilemma's in their games. Anyway, I don't want to cramp the forums style here so, if anyone wants to read some stuff on morality, click the spoiler. I just fished it out of the .doc file that I wrote it in, perhaps a year ago or so, but it might still be interesting.

(oh you can ignore the alternative I give; at the time I kinda felt obliged to try and deliver something 'better' or otherwise I'd only be complaining. I'm quite happy to only complain in fact.)

[spoiler:c9ef27af97]On the Genealogy of Game Morality – A call for more than Good and Evil

(again, this topic is far too long, I apologize in advance)

Some games have far too long stuck to a system of dualism between good and evil.

1.1. Locating the phenomenon
Games that bother with morality usually fulfil this function with a dualistic system of good and evil. On the one side stands a bastion of selflessness, helpful, kind, and generally the poor bastard who gets screwed over when it comes to cool looking skills in the end. And on the other side stands the pure baby-eating evil, egoistic, lying, deceitful, and backstabbing shady character clad in black and red. For some games, this is entirely enough. For other games, the implications of this system inherently create limitations that have far too long restricted their social aspects to an unnecessary shallow level.

1.2. Good or evil is all you get, but that's fine
Bioshock is a good example of a game that doesn't really need more refined morality. Yes, the limitation to only harvest or save little sisters can be deplored, but there isn't much that can be done with this anyway in my opinion. It is a linear game and a shooter, these generally suffice with a clear-cut distinction between good and evil. Other examples include the recent Infamous, or games that don't give you any choice as to what you do, and whatever other game which doesn't have much text or doesn't require you to interact with other NPC's. Star Wars games, because of their lore, also require duality.

1.3. I judge thee and thy actions, none shall change my verdict
Baldur's Gate type games, Neverwinter Nights, Fallout series, Mass Effect: these kinds of games would greatly benefit from a more refined morality system. Although they all have their own touches to it, and they give morality a different name each, all of them go with the basic dichotomy between good and evil. Baldur's Gate and NWN call it reputation, Fallout calls it karma, and Mass Effect has Paragon and Renegade. The most important common aspect between these games is that they make morality known to the player; they judge him by a statistic.

1.4. Non-dualistic ways of solving morality in games
The dualistic version is certainly not the only one available in game morality. A very often used way to judge the player is through character interaction, so that the game-world judges the character in a more refined way and dependant on the specific person you interact with. Deus Ex judged the player for his ruthlessness (in the first part at least), Gothic had you form alliances and thus create enemies; The Witcher is another good example of a game that doesn't rely on black and white choices and judgements. Some of the games under 1.3, such as Mass Effect, also use this method in combination with a dualistic system to create a more fleshed out world. The problem of this non-dualistic approach lies in its complexity and thus limitation to a relatively small world and a few main characters. Also, this approach usually isn't very flexible and is limited to only a few choices or 2-3 ways of playing a game. Its biggest downfall is simply that it isn't a system nor has been systematically used.

2. Implications and inherent limitations of dualistic morality
Being the nature of dualism, all you'll end up with will be good and evil actions. Neutrality, while often mentioned, basically has no importance in a system governed by dualism. The deeper implications of dualism are much more interesting than neutrality anyway, so let us move on to that.

By communicating the moral value of the player's actions to the player, the game judges the actions of the player as if there was an omniscient God-like authority, deciding whether your actions were good, evil, or not significant enough to register on the moral-o-meter. Morality thus is no longer in the players' hands. He cannot decide that an action was good, evil, or a necessary evil or anything else. He'll be deemed evil or good regardless of his own judgement, and because of the general usage of the morality statistic for other mechanics, the entire world will make it noticeable to the player, for example through bartering, conversations, questlines, and often skills. By giving this morality statistic such high importance, it is pretty much required for such a game to communicate the God-like judgement to the player. And so as not to confuse the player as to whether he is doing right or wrong with his potential doings, most actions of dual morality have little depth to them, and one cannot surprise a player by having an unintended evil be the outcome of an at first good action. The route to good or evil is crystal clear. As a consequence, perhaps unintended, the way people play such a game often becomes governed by this statistic, and they play pure good or pure evil.

True, you can ignore the statistic and play through such a game in any way. But the constant reminder by the entire world, the often glaring red or blue numbers of your moral-o-meter, and the remarks of NPC's in conversations will constantly remember you what you are according to the game. Story, quests, other NPC's and companions; all are morally impoverished since duality requires them to visibly go for either side. At most, they can switch sides. What you end up with is a simplified and impoverished moral and social world, dependent on a morality system clearly visible to the player.

3. The Dilemma of Alternatives and unpleasant surprises
The inherent problem behind systemizing morality is the fact that the importance attributed to such a system by the rest of the game pretty much makes it necessary to communicate judgement to the player so that he knows what effects his future choices will have.

If you want to have an actual system of morality, not just isolated events of interaction as the games under 1.4 do, you are basically required to communicate the judgement statistics to the player. And once again the entire circle starts. You give names to certain ways of playing, you communicate this to the player, and then the player aims to achieve one of these ways of playing fully, yet again impoverishing many elements of a game. A system of morality basically shoots itself in the foot by disabling challenging moral situations, because ultimately, morally grey situations are decided by people and not by a mechanic. Neither can you really surprise a player with an outcome of his actions. He'd be frustrated by suddenly being deemed treacherous, and he'd reload and get the intended outcome. This is also why games usually never have consequences that happen far in the future. The invested time makes it unattractive to load a possibly not even existing save-game from before the event in question. Consequences have to be limited, direct and clear, and there can be usually only two or at most three ways of solving a problem.

4.1. An alternative: People and Types of Morality
Therefore, instead of focusing on morality, I would like to vouch for a better simulation of people themselves and their ways of judging other people. This is already being used partly in many of the games under 1.3., but has never been developed into an actual mechanic governing a morality system. Ideally, judgement of any kind would not have to be communicated to the player through statistics but only through the world itself, while underlying mechanics and statistics can hum away in the background doing their job. But I also believe that, even in communicating any statistics, the following system would still be a one-uppance on the traditional dualism.

What I would like to see realised would be a system wherein each NPC in the world is attributed degrees of a few defining characteristics that decide their outlook on the world and the actions of other people, mainly you. The old D&D system already did something in the manner through lawful and chaotic combined with dualistic morality, but this is simply too...simple.

In contrast, imagine a character who is defined as Law-abiding (20/100), Pious (80/100), Greedy (80/100), Helpful (40/100), Utilitarian (70/100), Trustworthy (30/100) and you'd have the background statistics for a crooked money-grubbing bishop who values his faith as much as his coin, who is somewhat reluctant to help and who believes that the ends justify the means in most cases. As long as you donate to him, or the church, or wherever donations end up with this character, it wouldn't really matter much to him what crimes you commit. As long as you pay him well, you might find him to be trustworthy, but this relationship depends entirely on coin. Obviously, you should be weary of blackmail.

These statistics all revolve around dichotomies themselves, but the combination of all of them make up for a far more precise approximation than traditional systems I believe. The specific statistics of main importance still have to be worked out closer and the following list is of a highly preliminary character.

Law-abiding - Law-breaking
Honest - Deceitful
Generous/selfless - Greedy/Egoistic
Pious - Impious (dependent on specific faiths of course)
Helpful - Unhelpful
Trustworthy - Treacherous
Deontologist (actions themselves have to be 'good') - Consequential/Utilitarian (the ends justify the means)
Grateful - Unappreciative

As said, this is preliminary and more a suggestion than a set system. The biggest problem of these characteristics is that they don't exist on their own and are in fact interconnected. For example, to determine whether a character would betray you, multiple of these statistics would have to be used. If this character had previously been rescued by you and he was grateful, this would be a strong deterrent. On the other hand, if he doesn't care about such things, perhaps money can satisfy his loyalty. Percentages should be weighted off against one another to decide whether the final outcome ends in betrayal.

Now, for the player character, the standard way of starting out would be with all statistics at 50/100. Another way of determining starting statistics could be through a common set of choices regarding hypothetical situations, a system which in Morrowind was used to decide your character class. Any choice the player makes would change these statistics incrementally. The problem which remains now is how the world perceives the player character. As with your own view of people in the world, it would be unrealistic if everyone else had a satellite connection to your centre of morality, making you an obvious give-away.
[/spoiler:c9ef27af97]
 
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