Classified US military video depicting slaying of civilians

DarkCorp said:
Seems like a kind of we are fucked if we do and fucked if we do not scenario..
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As it always is with America. If we don't help were evil, if we do try to help were evil. Everyone wants our help, but they want us to do everything perfectly with out any problems, which is impossible and when the shit hits the fan its our fault for being there in the first place somehow.

I do think South Korea could beat North on their own, the North doesn't have the means to wage war.
 
No no no... nobody wanted the USA involving neither in Irak or Afganistan..
It was the decision of Mr Bush and his hidden lobby to overtake Irak for his own purposes..
 
I'll give you Iraq, but Afghanistan you can make a case that they wanted the Taliban gone (and thats where Bin Laden WAS), and when they were things were good and people were happy with it and us, it's only when we gave them back most of the control, is when they got angry at us and things started falling apart.

The moral of these wars is that the Middle East is not a place in fuck around in, always have been, always will be, nothing (of outside influence) will ever fix it
 
@arr0nax ... Who really gives a damn? People die and people get murdered in war. Do you have any idea what it is like to be out in the field? About how physically and mentally demanding it is of you? I spent a year out there and let me tell you this ... its fucked up out there ... fucked up for both sides ... the world would be a better place if china just said fuck it and rolled over the middle east with a massive firing line. However since America is making mistakes were getting all the flak in the world. What about Russia when they invaded Georgia? Apparently Paris Hilton was more of an issue. Grow some balls and enlist in the military and spend some time out there then tell me about how amazing your experiance was ...
 
Wait what happened to Paris Hilton? I NEED TO KNOW!

Bread and Circuses! THE FALL IS COMING!

On topic of our GIs returning home, I found it interesting that my bud that was in Iraq, has grown a defence mechinism to realisticly portrayed violence on TV. He laughs uncontrolably and tells me if i dont change the channel hes going to throw up. Its weird, as soon as the blood spatters, hes laughing hard - almost instantly. Guess we wont be watching "1000 ways to die" anymore...
 
Accusations on the American military should not be made lightly considering what the men and woman in said military give there lives for America, and while I don't like the government I respect what the soldiers, and the government do, even if they do occasionally screw the pooch, or jump the gun.
 
I do not think any military should be given anymore protection against accusations than any other organisations representing a government. The military being one of the branches that are allowed to exercise violence for the state according to law should be held to high standards and under a watchfull eye at all times. There is nothing that says that they should be revered or protected against taking responsibility for their actions if those actions are wrong or misguided. Sure they put their life on the line for their country, but so do firemen, police officers and medics every day and they are put under serious scrutiny. That the military is abroad and thus not at home potentially messing upp for the people they serve(Messing upp when doing service abroad can hurt your country in the long term as can a bad police force at home) does not mean you should get away with crimes or bad work.
 
DasCryborg said:
@arr0nax ... Who really gives a damn? People die and people get murdered in war.
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You lost every bit of credibility the moment you said that garbage. When you're supposed to be the "good guys" in the scenario, it shouldn't be accepted with a playful "Who gives a damn" when a bunch of innocent people get blown up, by someone controlling heavy military munitions who sounds far too happy to be shooting innocent people to pieces. I give a damn. I'd rather not see innocent people turned into a smear across the street, with the people who did it practically getting cheered on and supported.
 
mobucks said:
On topic of our GIs returning home, I found it interesting that my bud that was in Iraq, has grown a defence mechinism to realisticly portrayed violence on TV. He laughs uncontrolably and tells me if i dont change the channel hes going to throw up. Its weird, as soon as the blood spatters, hes laughing hard - almost instantly. Guess we wont be watching "1000 ways to die" anymore...
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I have a friend who behaves similarly, in the laughing aspect at least, not so much the throwing up. He was a machine gunner who served in Fallujah back in 04 during Phantom Fury so he saw a lot of combat. He mostly jokes about it now and is quite proud of all the people he killed. Granted it is hard to say if this is genuine joy or some type of defensive mechanism to try and cope with the things he saw and did.

As far as the feelings I have over the video, they are about the same. Innocent people die in war, I can't be bothered to care. Better use of our time and money logistics and operations wise than to try and figure it out.
 
those are your brothers, you don't give two shits about some durka durka rag head when compared to your fellow Marines
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If this is the attitude of a Marine recruit on this board, and as he claims, is the attitude of 'the Marines' then well, there isn't much that can be said.

Journalists, children and other civilians were murdered in cold blood, due to misidentification of weapons, from targets who were too far away to be a threat.

Furthermore, do we know if the clearance passed was attributed to the van, which clearly arrived to provide medical help and was in turn fired upon?
 
@Hoxie ... Well as it is said in Fallout "War Never Changes" so yes just remember in every war innocents will die and be murdered. Can't say that I have any feelings towards their deaths. Shit happens get over it, those people in the video are serving time in prison and probably waiting to die for their war crimes. I bet you weren't worried about innocent people when we were sending in our missiles and munitions when Clinton bombed Iraq, if you were then give me some evidence. Ever wonder how many innocents were killed then? Probably not, shit you may have even forgotten about that. War is fucked up but it happens and always will happen. Perceptions are viewed through a tunnle, tragic that innocents die yes. My point is if you really care then you will make a difference. If you just say you do and then continue to play on your computer and play video games then you truely don't give a fuck. I got 76 high value targets bagged and tagged and got multiple weapon munitions uncovered. The work I did helped Stabilize the City of Baghdad from insurgents. I rewrote Standard Operating Procedures that improved the efficency on the job I was doing by 50-60% to help the people that came after me. WTF have you done? Have you even sent a single care package to a single soldier out in Iraq? Probably not ... so I guess you care a whole lot ... now shut up ... eat your candy bar ... drink your soda ... and get back to what you really care about, your "sick" computer and video games ...
 
DasCryborg said:
Boo fuckedy hoo bullshit arguments
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About all I saw. Keep up with the hiiilarious attacks, oh worldly patron. Regardless of what you say, there's still no excuse for that dumbass cheerily blowing unarmed, innocent people up. I don't care about what you've done in the slightest, I don't have to give you shit of "evidence" or support some war effort to show I care about innocent people being massacred, by the people who are supposed to be the "good guys" in this situation. Get over yourself.
 
@Hoxie You're an idiot, so you know for certain that kid knew without a doubt they were unarmed civilians? I bet youd be pretty fucking Nervous too if you were on a Convoy and then you heard something about a group carrying RPGS came over the chatter. I don't believe the kid turned into the Camera and said look at my sick skills at killing unarmed noncombative civilians. You see what you want to see but you have no real idea about what the fuck happened out there. Perceptions are all sorts of fucked up in war especially when you hear there is a serious threat to your convoy over radio chatter. However you wouldn't know anything all you know is that killing innocents is wrong! So looking at the situation with outsider eyes is obviously the same as being there in person with your life on the line and the mention of RPGS coming your way.
 
No, those people in the video aren't in prison and won't face war crimes and THAT is the problem. For some reason Americans are willing to tolerate violence against innocents that just so happen to be in a different country while that would NEVER be tolerated if it happened here.

If you replace the variables and location it would be one of the biggest stories in domestic news in years.

I doubt they thought they knowingly killed unarmed people, but the fact that they did and didn't seem to mind much is incredibly telling.

DasCryborg said:
Grow some balls and enlist in the military and spend some time out there then tell me about how amazing your experiance was ...
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No thanks, enforcing the will of a group of old white men on people without their consent isn't really a hobby of mine, I'll still pay my fair share of military wages and benefits with my also hard earned money, though.
 
Hoxie said:
DasCryborg said:
@arr0nax ... Who really gives a damn? People die and people get murdered in war.
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You lost every bit of credibility the moment you said that garbage. When you're supposed to be the "good guys" in the scenario, it shouldn't be accepted with a playful "Who gives a damn" when a bunch of innocent people get blown up, by someone controlling heavy military munitions who sounds far too happy to be shooting innocent people to pieces. I give a damn. I'd rather not see innocent people turned into a smear across the street, with the people who did it practically getting cheered on and supported.
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What a sec, are you talking in general or just in this video? In this video I see several guys that are clearly armed, and no I'm not talking about the camera guys/reporters. Innocent people seems a little bit of a long shot. One of the guys in the vid has an RPG. As far as the reporters goes, wrong place, wrong time. They knew the dangers of the job, hanging out with armed guys could get you into trouble. Regrettable as it may be.

EDIT: When the helo is watching them, don't look at the guys in the crosshair, look at the guys in periphery, they are armed. One even rest the RPG on the ground, while standing upright. I'll give you the exact time. Let me re-watch it.

EDIT 2: (A post of mine from April): Nope, the intro to the short version states that some of the men were armed. Just re-watched it. Watching the FULL version at 2:15-3:00 watching some of the guys in the background they are clearly carrying weapons, and one appears to be an RPG. What ever it is it's very long and heavy, as he rests it on the ground while still standing erect. At 2:34 is when one of the camera men pokes his head around the corner and appears to take a photo of the helo. If I didn't know ahead of time that was a camera I would easily mistake it for the business end of an RPG. (Which begs the question, he snaps a photo of the helo, realizing they're being watched, as the helo is circling, why didn't they drop all weapons at that point?) Watch it closely. They were definitely with armed men.

The Van situation though is shady at best. They were rendering aid, however, the pilots thought they were dealing with insurgents, should I let other insurgents (in helos' mindset) take off with their wounded comrades? Probably not.
 
DasCryborg said:
I'm an ass with no idea what I'm talking about.
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Agreed.

They were in an attack helicopter, plenty out of the range of an RPG. The guy shoots into a group of people, who he can see don't have weapons. Then shoots into a van, again with no armed people. Sounding far too happy about the situation that he's getting to kill people.

"No, those people in the video aren't in prison and won't face war crimes and THAT is the problem."

Also agreed. Like I said, it's insanely stupid that these people haven't been brought up on something. Instead having the backing of die-hard "Patriots" and fuckhead bigots, applauding them for giving more dead "Hurr turrurist" bodies to whack off over.
 
Hoxie said:
They were in an attack helicopter, plenty out of the range of an RPG.
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Well yes, of course they were out of range of the chopper in question. They were still armed insurgents who could later engage Coalition forces. Armed enemy combatants were confirmed and were engaged, it is really not that hard to understand.


The van situation is unfortunate for sure but also not something I am going to wig out over. Mistakes are made in the heat of the moment and far worse ones have been done in recent years. It was also unfortunate that unarmed civilians and journalist were in the vicinity of armed insurgents at the time. By now I think it is pretty common knowledge that is how the enemy operates and thus civilian casualties are even more inevitable. It is something the Israelis have been having to deal with while engaging in combat operations for a very long time and they still get massive amounts of backlash for it.
 
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