Cool! Tesla tanks in Fallout! Cross promotion with Red Alert

jamesmcm said:
Yeah parts of the game feel rushed (lack of any vehicles, can build very few weapons, etc.) but I think Bethesda will do a much better job with Fallout 4 when they have more time and have learnt from Fallout 3.

I think Bethesda are a great games company really.

I see with this "improvements" only one problem ...

"My idea is explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun."
- Tim Cain, a Fallout developer

Sadly this is one of the things Bethesda is not doing well
 
Crni Vuk said:
Sadly this is one of the things Bethesda is not doing well

Have you played Morrowind GOTY edition?

I think it shows quite well that Bethesda are capable of producing a great, open-ended FPS/RPG. For example, you can choose to kill travellers rather than escort them and steal the reward, etc. It's a shame they seem to be going backwards with Oblivion and then Fallout 3 but I can only assume this is because they were rushed (the expansion to Oblivion makes some better environments).
 
jamesmcm said:
Have you played Morrowind GOTY edition?

I think it shows quite well that Bethesda are capable of producing a great, open-ended FPS/RPG. For example, you can choose to kill travellers rather than escort them and steal the reward, etc. It's a shame they seem to be going backwards with Oblivion and then Fallout 3 but I can only assume this is because they were rushed (the expansion to Oblivion makes some better environments).

Sadly, MW is the last good game that Beth has released (and even some hardcore Daggerfall fans would disagree).

Oblivion was a watered down, POS compared to MW. And it wasn't rushed. They worked on it for years.

Same goes for FO3. You simply can't pin FO3's shortcomings on it being rushed. They developed it for years.
 
rcorporon said:
Same goes for FO3. You simply can't pin FO3's shortcomings on it being rushed. They developed it for years.

Perhaps, that is a worrying conclusion. But I hope Bethesda won't dumb the games down too much - (many of the changes in Oblivion were due to porting it over to consoles).

I wouldn't say Morrowind is a dumbed-down Daggerfall, sure lots of mechanics were removed but Daggerfall had some major issues due to it being so larger like texture re-usage, quest repetition, etc.

I hope the next BethSoft engine will support seamless environments - then they can add some of the Daggerfall mechanics (like climbing into towns, etc.) back in.

I can see that the games have been dumbed-down to a certain extent but I don't think all hope is lost. IMO, the improvements made to Oblivion outweighed the dumbing down (it's a shame they dumbed it down in the first place though) and the new stealth system was an incredible improvement.
 
As long certain people remain in charge over Bethesda I would not bet to much on "drastic" changes in the future. To insult individuals is not nice ... but here just a feq quotes.

"Fallout 3 might contain to much to read for the consoe players"

“God, is this too inaccessible for console players?”

“Dialogue wasn't a battle we wanted to pick. There were other things that were more important for us to spend time and energy on… we just don't have unlimited monkeys and typewriters.”

"Violence done well is fucking hilarious."

"Fantasy, for us, is a knight on horseback running around and killing things"

"Well, most good RPGs have action."

"If we focus on anything most though, it is the "dungeon hack" experience. That's the meat of the game."


As long this kind of thoughts remain with Bethesda a change to "deep" RPGs is almost impossible.
 
Care to give some sources on those quotes?

Yeah, it's a shame BethSoft are moving the emphasis to console games but I guess it's just a sign of the times - even Valve are console based now.
 
jamesmcm said:
Perhaps, that is a worrying conclusion. But I hope Bethesda won't dumb the games down too much - (many of the changes in Oblivion were due to porting it over to consoles).

I wouldn't say Morrowind is a dumbed-down Daggerfall, sure lots of mechanics were removed but Daggerfall had some major issues due to it being so larger like texture re-usage, quest repetition, etc.

I hope the next BethSoft engine will support seamless environments - then they can add some of the Daggerfall mechanics (like climbing into towns, etc.) back in.

I can see that the games have been dumbed-down to a certain extent but I don't think all hope is lost. IMO, the improvements made to Oblivion outweighed the dumbing down (it's a shame they dumbed it down in the first place though) and the new stealth system was an incredible improvement.

The step down from MW to Oblivion was, for me, too much to take. They took what I considered to be a superb FPRPG and turned it into some console garbage where skills meant nothing.

ie: In Morrowind, to pick a lock you had to have a high enough skill. In Oblivion you could have a skill of 1 and pick any lock in the game as long as you were good enough at the mini game.

The same thing happened with Persuausion. In MW it was a skill check, in Oblivion it was a ridiculous mini-game that involved a rotating circle.

I find FO3 to be simply Oblivion with guns, and I mean that in nearly every sense of the word. Grab a melee weapon and swing it in FO3. Then, swing a sword in Oblivion. IT's the EXACT same animation.

The dialogue system, the NPC animations, the horrid, NPC faces, etc, etc, are all recycled from Oblivion.

Sadly, the developers at Beth are either too lazy or not inclined on getting a new engine (they've used the same engine for Morrowind, Oblivion and FO3), and I doubt we'll get a new engine for TES V.

In order for me to even consider purchasing FO4, they'll have had to have created / bought a new engine, and fired Todd Howard.
 
jamesmcm said:
Neither of those articles source their quotes though so it's pointless. Any real reliable sources?
Vince is pretty reliable. Thats my thoughts anyway. Or do you want to accuse "Vince" who did the NMA review and even some Bethesda Forum moderators see as "good" review a liar?

But as we already talk about ... lieing or better "not accurate content/quotes"

Chapter 5 - Oblivion -- E3 Demo Video

*Edit
by watching Chapter 6 - Oblivion - E3 Demo Video it is somewhat interesting that you ALWAYS even in Fallout 3 demos you seen him only playing "pimped" characters with awesome skills and thus never ever give the impression of a "natural" feeling to gameplay ... I ask my self why ...
 
Thinking that NMA's gonna be a reliable source for Bethesda quotes is... questionable. Foucaultian sourcing doesn't make something real.
 
Corvin said:
Thinking that NMA's gonna be a reliable source for Bethesda quotes is... questionable. Foucaultian sourcing doesn't make something real.

What exactly are you implying about NMA here?
 
Corvin said:
Thinking that NMA's gonna be a reliable source for Bethesda quotes is... questionable. Foucaultian sourcing doesn't make something real.
Why should it be questoinable?

You know one of the first things people would "point" at NMA would be inacurate sources/wrong quotes.

Again. Even moderators at the Bethesda Forum thought Vince's review was "good" when someone posted it at the Bethesda forum. But it had to be closed. You know why? To much flaming from die hard Beth fans ... a moderator eve appologized cause sorting out the posts started to become a full-time job.
 
When those quotes aren't anywhere else on the net... gotcha quoting seems awful convenient.

I didn't find it a bad review either. I just didn't think of the quotes as some potent primary source about the psychology of Bethesda.

I'm hardly a die hard Bethesda fan. I didn't enjoy Oblivion until my sister got me a very heavily modded copy. I think Fallout 3 has a bunch of issues.

Of course you attempt to paint me as a 'die hard Bethesda fan.'
 
Corvin said:
When those quotes aren't anywhere else on the net... gotcha quoting seems awful convenient.

I didn't find it a bad review either. I just didn't think of the quotes as some potent primary source about the psychology of Bethesda.

I'm hardly a die hard Bethesda fan. I didn't enjoy Oblivion until my sister got me a very heavily modded copy. I think Fallout 3 has a bunch of issues.

Of course you attempt to paint me as a 'die hard Bethesda fan.'
It was more just a side note. I dont know if you are a die hard Beth fan or not. And it doesnt matter to me. So for the case you get that kind of impression I am sorry. It was more just to show why the thraed got closed in the Beth forum. Anyway.

Obviously you dont find many of such quotes. Some have been made in previews. Others are from interviews, that were made as videos.

Threads with dev quotes get closed in the Beth forum emidiately. You dont have to believe them. But they are accurate. Vince is not known in the Fallout community for beeing someone that makes up things for his liking.
 
The violence quote: "Violence done well is fucking hilarious" isn't an exact quote but it IS the precise sentiment that was expressed in the Gamers With Jobs podcast they did a month or so ago with someone from Bethesda. My jaw dropped at that one.

The "dialogue being a battle" quote is pretty well known and appears in plenty of places around the Web.

Unfortunately, scholarly attributions aren't too feasible on the Internet. I leave those to Monsieur Michel Foucault. Now _there_ was an impressive mind: the guy could write dense, incomprehensible theory that still speaks to fundamental truths about power structures all the while getting his groove on in the SF leather bar scene. Talk about multi-talented!
 
Commiered said:
Diablo 3 will shit all over Fallout 3 in sales. Starcraft 2 will as well. Just in South Korea I bet more people will buy Starcraft 2 than Fallout 3 will sell worldwide. A simple hack and slash and an iconic RTS will garner a much wider worldwide audience than a niche setting like post-apocalypse USA. Yes, it is a niche setting despite the sales that have been mostly on the back of a brilliant marketing strategy.

Of course it will, it would have outsold a Fallout 1 and 2 clone also. Fallout isn't a huge franchise.
 
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