Culture of Fallout

Kadscaner said:
Since Fallout's culture and atmosphere is based heavily on the culture of mid-20th century America, would there have been segregation laws into the 21st century? Would the civil rights movement have happened?
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I was under the impression that the pre-war culture in Fallout wasn't so much based on mid-20th century culture, but on the utopian visions of a 21st century which were prevalent after WWII and up to mid 60's. A juxtaposition of the dream of a better future, but which hid the nightmares of the reality they lived in. Most of those visionaries who dreamed of utopias had some pretty progressive ideals, and often saw things like racism and classism and sexism as humanities growing pangs that we would eventually do away with in that brighter future. Gene Roddenberry comes to mind, even if he is a much later example.

The thing about that that utopia, though, is the same problem that has doomed all the other utopian experiments in American history to failure. A poor understanding of human nature, and the hubris to think we can change it. I always took that as a tie-in to Fallout's iconic line about War never changing. War never changes, because people never change. Human nature never changes. So those utopias, no matter how promising, will always succumb to basic human failings... greed, fear, etc.

And yeah... I didn't notice it in FO3 and NV (especially the DLC) so much, but when I went back in the original games - nobody cared about the old world. It was just, for lack of a better phrase, the background radiation of people's lives. They were more concerned with building their own societies, their own glories, and merely picked the bones of the old world as resources without giving much of a damn to it's lost glories.

One thing that's been bothering me lately when seeing people fight over "NCR vs. Legion" politics, is that Legion supporters criticize republics for being corrupt and inefficient, which is fair - but then say it's dumb to follow a government that models itself after the government which caused the Great War in the first place. I don't think that was the point Obsidian was trying to get across. It's not that the Old World American government caused the war with it's greed and corruption - after all, several governments following several different political philosophies were engaged in the war as well... most notably Communist China. It's not that either of them "caused" the war... but rather, that neither of them could prevent it's inevitability. They were both, after all, very human institutions.

Also... as an aside, Caesar taught the tribes how to engage in Total Warfare. Nuclear Armageddon is the absolute fulfillment of Total Warfare. Legionfags have no room to talk about who's leading who down the same paths that doomed the old world.
 
R.Graves said:
You know... You're actually really intelligent. Which is surprising because your username didn't exactly give me high hopes. Is "deep fried dookie" a reference that I'm not getting?
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Naw, I'm actually a pretty crass person, so I just tend to have a lot of time alone to think. :vatted:
But thanks for the compliment.

The name isn't a reference that I know of. The word dookie just always makes me giggle, and it's just what entered my head when I made the account. Probably could have gone with my usual handle, but "BoozeJunky" doesn't seem as appropriate now that I don't drink (much).
 
peadar87 said:
Why not? As RangerBoo touched on, it worked for Veronica
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Just gonna throw in my thoughts on this subject:
The Legion and Brotherhood's opposition to homosexuality was just one part of the group's mechanics which is to increase the number of people available to aforesaid factions (though for differing reasons), not its core mechanic. It was subtle and fitting for the two factions.

Making a group purely centered around being homosexuals who are being persecuted would only appear to be superficially pandering to the particular group of people and is usually difficult to pull off when it comes to writing since failure would only make the faction seem shallow and dull. This was probably why the Rainbow Federation was cut and never returned (the Restoration Project does not even mention them).

Besides, homosexuality would not become much of an issue in the current Fallout timeline since post-War civilization is relatively stable and has no need for constant re-population (except in places where large numbers are needed like the Legion or Brotherhood). Perhaps in the early days after the War, there may be some persecution against people not doing their part to revitalize the species but after a while, population numbers will stabilize and they will start indulging again. So, the tribe of gays would probably not work in current and future Fallout games based on the current timeline of the games.
 
R.Graves said:
Any other particularly stupid cut content?
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Not sure about stupidly cut content but there is content that have been stupidly cut out (though it may fall under stupid cut content) like in Fallout 4 where apparently there was a quest where the player can lead a coup to overthrow Arthur Maxson so that you can become the new Elder if you got sick of the guy. It may be nonsensical and sounds more like a power fantasy but it does change the story a little (a bit... Okay, the player would probably still be an errand boy for the Brotherhood so no difference anyways).

The link only has audio for the quest:
 
CerberusGate said:
Just gonna throw in my thoughts on this subject:
The Legion and Brotherhood's opposition to homosexuality was just one part of the group's mechanics which is to increase the number of people available to aforesaid factions (though for differing reasons), not its core mechanic. It was subtle and fitting for the two factions.

Making a group purely centered around being homosexuals who are being persecuted would only appear to be superficially pandering to the particular group of people and is usually difficult to pull off when it comes to writing since failure would only make the faction seem shallow and dull. This was probably why the Rainbow Federation was cut and never returned (the Restoration Project does not even mention them).

Besides, homosexuality would not become much of an issue in the current Fallout timeline since post-War civilization is relatively stable and has no need for constant re-population (except in places where large numbers are needed like the Legion or Brotherhood). Perhaps in the early days after the War, there may be some persecution against people not doing their part to revitalize the species but after a while, population numbers will stabilize and they will start indulging again. So, the tribe of gays would probably not work in current and future Fallout games based on the current timeline of the games.
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That makes perfect sense. You might still be able to incorporate the concept into some larger faction of outcasts, but yeah, when you put it like that, an entire faction of homosexuals doesn't really make sense in-universe.
 
Izak said:
The town of intelligent racoons in Fallout 1.
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Eh, that actually sounded pretty cool. But I don't think That would have meshed well with fo1 so its probably for the best That it was cut. Would've been fine in fo2 IMO. Then again fo2 had enough things that shouldn't speak talk to you.

Just off the top of my head:
  1. Molerats
  2. Death claws
  3. Plants
  4. Brahma (Easter egg)
There may be more. Still I'd love to see at least a lone s'lanter in a Fallout game. At the very least a well done mod.
 
DeepFriedDookie said:
I was under the impression that the pre-war culture in Fallout wasn't so much based on mid-20th century culture, but on the utopian visions of a 21st century which were prevalent after WWII and up to mid 60's. A juxtaposition of the dream of a better future, but which hid the nightmares of the reality they lived in. Most of those visionaries who dreamed of utopias had some pretty progressive ideals, and often saw things like racism and classism and sexism as humanities growing pangs that we would eventually do away with in that brighter future. Gene Roddenberry comes to mind, even if he is a much later example.

The thing about that that utopia, though, is the same problem that has doomed all the other utopian experiments in American history to failure. A poor understanding of human nature, and the hubris to think we can change it. I always took that as a tie-in to Fallout's iconic line about War never changing. War never changes, because people never change. Human nature never changes. So those utopias, no matter how promising, will always succumb to basic human failings... greed, fear, etc.
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Fantastic post, I agree about the NCR and Legion, and about the pre-war government and the inevitability of the nuclear war.

Your post made me wonder though, is there really much information given about whether the pre-war was some kind of broken-down utopia (or just a good old-fashioned dystopia)? I always figured that it was just a world very similar to our own. More war-torn by a long and constant Cold War sure, and more technologically advanced (as it would be, being seventy odd years in the future) but other than that I never felt like a utopia (or dystopia) was implied. The 1950s utopia spiel always felt more like a Bethesda invention.

On the point about the Rainbow whatever, yeah glad they cut it. This world doesn't need more hamfisted bullshit, we get enough of that from Bethesda with their "polyamorous" crap. Fallout New Vegas treated the subject perfectly, both with the Legion, Brotherhood of Steel and the NCR. Major Knight comes to mind and his saying that homosexuality just isn't talked about in the barracks.
 
Earth said:
Your post made me wonder though, is there really much information given about whether the pre-war was some kind of broken-down utopia (or just a good old-fashioned dystopia)? I always figured that it was just a world very similar to our own. More war-torn by a long and constant Cold War sure, and more technologically advanced (as it would be, being seventy odd years in the future) but other than that I never felt like a utopia (or dystopia) was implied. The 1950s utopia spiel always felt more like a Bethesda invention.
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We know from Fallout, Fallout 2, the Fallout Bible and from salvaged Van Buren lore that there were quite a few food riots in the cities, the new plague was tearing through America, the government was extremely militaristic, Europe had become a hell hole and the cost of standard items was ridiculous, so definitely not on par with real life.
 
Izak said:
We know from Fallout, Fallout 2, the Fallout Bible and from salvaged Van Buren lore that there were quite a few food riots in the cities, the new plague was tearing through America, the government was extremely militaristic, Europe had become a hell hole and the cost of standard items was ridiculous, so definitely not on par with real life.
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"not on par with real life."

um...
 
Earth said:
Izak said:
We know from Fallout, Fallout 2, the Fallout Bible and from salvaged Van Buren lore that there were quite a few food riots in the cities, the new plague was tearing through America, the government was extremely militaristic, Europe had become a hell hole and the cost of standard items was ridiculous, so definitely not on par with real life.
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"not on par with real life."

um...
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:roffle:
 
The only way to make a Utopia is through a dystopia.

Brainwashing the masses to believe only what you tell, take down freedoms, destroy individuality until all that's left of their soul is an empty space allowing the government to pour whatever mixture it wants.
 
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