Kadscaner
NMA’s only mutie
Since Fallout's culture and atmosphere is based heavily on the culture of mid-20th century America, would there have been segregation laws into the 21st century? Would the civil rights movement have happened?
Culture of Fallout
- Thread starter Kadscaner
- Start date
RoboStang
First time out of the vault
Bethesda is mainly responsible for romanticising the pre-war world, and their lore is poorly done and very inconsistent. The first two Fallout games make it clear the the pre-war world is unimportant, and that the creators are going to focus on the factions after the war.
"The end of the world occured pretty much as we'd predicted. The details, trivial and pointless."
"From the ashes of nuclear devastation, a new civilization would struggle to arise."
The original designers used the nuclear war mainly for exposition to build a game world with. Whether or not there were civil rights movements before the war is not important because the world ended and now Caesar's Legion doesn't give a shit about anyone's rights. lol
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The-Artist-64
"Set Phasers to Fun."
If we're going by Black Isle standards:
The pre-war world actually more closely resembles the 1980s, with motorcycle football and leather jackets being all the rage for some reason. Counter-culture is actually quite prevalent- there's gangs, hackers, hippies, all that sort of thing. Also, Bakersfield has grown huge. No idea how that happened.
The disputes between the thirteen U.S. commonwealths seems to suggest that each region had its own culture, and each commonwealth tried to emphasize this culture as much as possible. For example, one would see the New England Commonwealth having lobster festivals every month and promoting their state(s) as the best in the country. This was because each one had to be louder than the others in order to get federal funding and resources. Regionalism overruled nationalism, it seems.
Politically, it resembles the 1970s, with an oil crisis and punks protesting an ongoing war. Relations between the United States and the Soviet Union are warm in the face of a growing China, mirroring the U.S.-China relations of the time but with the PRC and USSR switching places. There also seems to be a 50s nostalgia among the populace, which may be a typical case of decades nostalgia.
Technology and advertising are really the most major things I noticed in the originals which give off a cultural flare of the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't overtly a retro-futuristic version of one decade so much as a blend of the culture of all those decades.
The pre-war world actually more closely resembles the 1980s, with motorcycle football and leather jackets being all the rage for some reason. Counter-culture is actually quite prevalent- there's gangs, hackers, hippies, all that sort of thing. Also, Bakersfield has grown huge. No idea how that happened.
The disputes between the thirteen U.S. commonwealths seems to suggest that each region had its own culture, and each commonwealth tried to emphasize this culture as much as possible. For example, one would see the New England Commonwealth having lobster festivals every month and promoting their state(s) as the best in the country. This was because each one had to be louder than the others in order to get federal funding and resources. Regionalism overruled nationalism, it seems.
Politically, it resembles the 1970s, with an oil crisis and punks protesting an ongoing war. Relations between the United States and the Soviet Union are warm in the face of a growing China, mirroring the U.S.-China relations of the time but with the PRC and USSR switching places. There also seems to be a 50s nostalgia among the populace, which may be a typical case of decades nostalgia.
Technology and advertising are really the most major things I noticed in the originals which give off a cultural flare of the 1950s and 1960s. It wasn't overtly a retro-futuristic version of one decade so much as a blend of the culture of all those decades.
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RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
You pretty much hit the nail on the head @The-Artist-64. The original Fallouts were inspired heavily by Mad Max and Mad Max The Road Warrior which were made in the late 70's and early 80's. The early Fallout games were pretty anachronistic. Black Isle did a good job mixing different periods and their cultures together to give the Fallout setting its unique flare.
The-Artist-64
"Set Phasers to Fun."
Exactly. One of the game's most interesting designs was its ironic division between the civilized perception of the old world (something Bethesda took way too literally) and the truth of the anarchy that broke out in the days before the Great War and afterwards. There was always this 'every may for himself' vibe- hence the vaults, personal fallout shelters, etc. It was a scramble for survival.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
The-Artist-64, mind going to Sugarbombed and explain this, because I tried and they constantly think that Beth's interpretation is utterly and always correct.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Isn't Sugarbombed an NMA equivalent but for Bethesda's Fallouts? I imagine they'd believe Bethesda's interpretation regardless of the original intentions.
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Pretty much, though some of them are really nice and open minded.
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
Oh I don't doubt that, I just imagine they're more into the whole pre-war 50's utopia thing.
Kadscaner
NMA’s only mutie
I won't lie, I do enjoy the whole 50s aesthetic to everything. But I think it coulda been done better...
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
The 50's aesthetic is fun but it just doesn't make sense that the world would get stuck in that era, especially considering how fascist America became towards the end of the war. I'm not saying there shouldn't have been a 50's influence - that's always been a part of Fallout - but it should have been a kind of nostalgia for the glory days of the US, not an ideal 50's future.
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Kadscaner
NMA’s only mutie
Yeah, I hear you man
Dr Fallout
Centurion
Bethesda makes the pre-war period seem almost idyllic, Fallout lore says otherwise.
RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
Exactly. This is what meant by how the original Fallouts were inspired by Mad Max. I imagine that the prewar world would be similar to how the world was in the first Mad Max movie. Civilization is on the brink of collapse. Chaos, paranoia, lawlessness and disorder rule the streets. The US government is becoming more fascist and controlling in an attempt to control the situation and bring back law and order to the populace. The prewar world was a dystopian world.
In Bethesda's Fallout the prewar world is like something out of the Stepford Wives. An idyllic world that hid a dark underbelly when in the originals and NV portrayed it as anything but. In the words of what @TransgenderVaultDeweller said in the first NMA podcast, this feels like a McCarthy, Cold War era propaganda game.
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CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
Weren't there massive riots throughout the cities? Inflation of prices for basic goods? Soldiers freely committing war crimes as long as they were being patriotic about it? Secret groups in the government conspiring without restraint? A plague created by the government as a bio-weapon that wound up being spread to America accidentally?
The lore established by Fallout 1 and 2 show that pre-War America was a dystopian nightmare that was falling apart around its people that was eventually ended by an even worse wake-up call. Even New Vegas had this in mind with all the riot gear found in Hopeville.
Yet 4 had the gall to portray the pre-War times were happy times that could recover with time rather than what it actually was. If they wanted to go nuts with the 50s aesthetic, they could have tried to portray the people's obsession with said aesthetic as their way of trying to ignore the world that was falling apart around them rather than giving a bland idyllic world that could recover as the intro to Fallout 4 suggests.
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RangerBoo
Resident Schizo Poster
You know the intro for Fallout 4 could have worked if they played it like this:
The Sole Survivor and their spouse start off freshing up in the bathroom talking about the war veteran party they are going to. When the player looks out the window they can see police in riot gear or soldiers in power armor patrolling the streets. The news reporter will talk about a riot happening in Boston with the Sole Survivors spouse commenting about another riot happening and that they are thankful that they live in a gated neighborhood and don't have to worry about the chaos disrupting their lives or threatening their home.
It would have shown how detached the rich and privileged are from the real world and reality. Kinda like in real life. Sadly Bethesda didn't do anything like that which was a real missed opportunity.
The Sole Survivor and their spouse start off freshing up in the bathroom talking about the war veteran party they are going to. When the player looks out the window they can see police in riot gear or soldiers in power armor patrolling the streets. The news reporter will talk about a riot happening in Boston with the Sole Survivors spouse commenting about another riot happening and that they are thankful that they live in a gated neighborhood and don't have to worry about the chaos disrupting their lives or threatening their home.
It would have shown how detached the rich and privileged are from the real world and reality. Kinda like in real life. Sadly Bethesda didn't do anything like that which was a real missed opportunity.
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CerberusGate
I should save my game in a whole new slot
This! This would have been just right. This could have been the blending of Bethesda more competent writing and established lore but I guess the writers did not think it through nor did they care, which is a shame.
If I recall, New Vegas managed to present this idea in Dead Money. When Sinclair invited his guests to the Madre, I got the impression that he (and Mr. House) were the only rich folk that were wary of the oncoming Great War becoming a reality and were among the few elite folk that took precautions to prepare for it (with Sinclair making a war shelter for Vera and the other folks he invited and House with the anti-warhead defenses on the Lucky 38).
Izak
I Shot The ALBATROSS
That would've been fucking awesome! Waking up to see everything's at the chaotic but ignored status quo, if not a little off, only to have your world literally implode. If that were the actual intro it would probably be the coolest one in the Fallout series to date.
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Dr Fallout
Centurion
You know what would be better? To get to the Vault Shelter you have to run past fences with large groups of poor people trying to get past, and you can hear screams, gunshots and explosions in the distance. At some points you see power armored soldiers spraying bullets into the crowd, in a weak attempt at stopping them. After a while you're running not only to beat the bomb but also the rabid crowd which aims to enter the Vault at all costs.
Earth
Vault Senior Citizen
The only thing "1950s" in the original Fallout's would have been the Cold War-style propaganda. That idyllic society presented in Fallout 4 is moronic. That was the vision of Fallout the pre-war American government wanted to present to the world, not actual reality.
As @Dr Fallout says, the final days would have been nightmarish. People killing each other to get to vaults or any other kind of safety when they realised the nuclear fallout was imminent. Was it the west coast that was bombed first? Imagine living on the east coast realising you only have less than an hour to live.
Also, to people who say, oh but Vault Boy in Fallout and Fallout 2 is all 50s style. Is it? Looks more like a cartoon for children to me. Like a Mickey Mouse cartoon but with the Vault-Tec mascot.
As @Dr Fallout says, the final days would have been nightmarish. People killing each other to get to vaults or any other kind of safety when they realised the nuclear fallout was imminent. Was it the west coast that was bombed first? Imagine living on the east coast realising you only have less than an hour to live.
Also, to people who say, oh but Vault Boy in Fallout and Fallout 2 is all 50s style. Is it? Looks more like a cartoon for children to me. Like a Mickey Mouse cartoon but with the Vault-Tec mascot.