CVG interviews Pete Hines

[Xenophile]

Yeah, I have to agree with Lucky after playing the old games again after having laid them down years ago.. I am really glad that they are going First person and real-time. The old games really do show their age when you play them. I have really just come the the opinion that in a rpg, I think I like the realtime combat(with pause).. if you want tactical turn-based play, I think it has it's place, but not in rpgs. And yes I have played rpgs since forever, so I have seen the evolution.

I just think turn-based removes you too much from the experience. Yes, *gasp*.. it's less immersive. Just thought you might like a positive reinforcement Lucky.. god knows these board could use a few less hermits.

 

[Kyuu]

The old games really do show their age when you play them. I have really just come the the opinion that in a rpg, I think I like the realtime combat(with pause).. if you want tactical turn-based play, I think it has it's place, but not in rpgs. And yes I have played rpgs since forever, so I have seen the evolution.

Right. Because the turn-based combat is there because of the technological limitations of the time. It's not like it was an intentional design decision or anything.

No one is saying you have to like turn-based. But if you don't like it, then hey, you have a crapload of real-time games for your perusal. Again, there's no good reason to turn Fallout into one.

.. god knows these board could use a few less hermits.

... What? Where the hell does being a hermit figure into anything?

 

[DarkCorp]

After taking a moment to think, why can't bethesda please both sides. A free moving POV, and the ability to switch to either real time or real turn-based "none of this pseudo real time crap ala KOTOR". WIth the current status of technology, I believe that would not be too difficult to do.

Now whether the time it takes to fully flush out such an idea would be in tune to the money grubbers is another idea.

On the other hand, I believe Bethesda only wants to expend enough resources to satisfy one group of fans so I will focus more on this point.

If bethesda alienates the Fallout fanbase here, then I forsee nothing but financial loss. As many others have stated, there are plenty of other first person shooters (and probably better) out there that the fans of that genre can choose from.


P.S. I love my girlfriend and I am losing time with her at this very moment because I am such a passionate Fallout fan.

 

[Yellow]

Fallout was a white rose in a field of red.

And that's why I loved it.

But now it will just be a red rose in a field of red. Still a rose, but red, just like every other one.

 

[shihonage]

Since we're talking about combat... sometimes I wonder how Fallout would work with City Of Heroes combat mechanics - when you play a "guns" character in CoH.

 

[Jacen]

Mord_Sith pretty much lined out why I'm not inclined to like Bethesda's interpretation of Fallout. Things like exploding cars, nuke catapults... give me a break.

 

[Sorrow]

I just really like Bethesda's Elder Scrolls games, and I also happen to really like Fallout. I wish more of the people here would be willing to give Bethesda a chance and wait to play the game we're lucky to be getting at all.

Yeah, I should really be happy that continuation of my favourite classical PnP-based cRPG will be an action-RPG for brainless console kids .

I know Fallout and Fallout 2 are very special to a lot of people, myself included, but I don't think they are perfect games by any means. There are areas that needed improvement, and I'm happy that Bethesda is making a few big changes.

Of course it wasn't perfect, there were areas that sucked, like poor AI, poor combat system, etc.
Bethesda will make some of them suck even more.

To be honest, I am sick and tired that a lot of things that I used to like have to change, be improved or re invented in order to appeal to the mass audience.
So far things have only become more simpler and stupid instead of the glorious rebirth that promises to appeal to both the old fans and a whole new generation.

Exactly. Actually, I got sick of it around the times of Baldur's Gate and other Biowhore's RTS-adventure games.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Well, it's figured out to this:

People who have played Fallout, are against Bethesda's actions.

People who haven't played Fallout, or have played it and didn't understand it (i.e too complex for me!, etc)

Are with Bethesda's actions.

Either way, we have no control over the development of FO3, so we're screwed anyway.

 

[LuckyOasis]

I'm not a mindless console kid. I never had a console as a kid. My parents would never by me a Nintendo, even though I asked for one every single year.

I think the nuke catapult sounds awesome. I like Bethesda's idea that you can use the junk lying around to make new weapons. How do you know it was the car, itself, exploding? Maybe somebody launched a rocket at a car.

I also think you might be looking at the Brotherhood through the wrong lenses. I think they look pretty much like an updated version of the Brotherhood from the opening movie to Fallout. The armor looks a bit rougher around the edges, but other wise I look at it and it looks very, very similar. It seems like you want to see the Brotherhood as knight-like because that's what you're looking for and expecting from Bethesda.

As far as the Brotherhood not existing on the east coast, who says it does, exactly? The Brotherhood formed on the west coast after their commanding officer deserted, but go back and watch the intro movie to Fallout again. The Brotherhood was merely wearing what looked to be standard issue power armor. All of the troops wore that armor. It probably just fell out of use, or fell into disrepair in most places after the war. The Brotherhood still had theirs because of their strict isolationism, but a similar group of ex-soldiers, or deserters, or the remnants of a military brigade, or whatever could have formed just as easily on the east coast either just before or immediately following the start of the war as it did on the west coast.

No, they probably didn't walk from the east coast to the west coast, but we know that radios still worked. I find it easy to swallow the idea that the west coast Brotherhood could have been in radio contact with the east coast Brotherhood. Radios aren't exactly non-canon are they? The Brotherhood had some seriously advanced technology and could have been in constant communication with other like-minded groups around the nation.

Just because they couldn't drive, fly, and probably wouldn't walk from the west to the east doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't be on the east coast as an organization. I don't think an east coast presence of either the Brotherhood, or other people wearing the same power armor is a slap in the face of the storyline.

 

[LuckyOasis]

Well, it's figured out to this:

People who have played Fallout, are against Bethesda's actions.

People who haven't played Fallout, or have played it and didn't understand it (i.e too complex for me!, etc)

Are with Bethesda's actions.

I played Fallout and Fallout 2, and I loved both of them. I played them both a number of times, including both again recently this past summer. I understood the games, and they were certainly not too complex for me. What exactly do you think I found to be too complex about them? I've only been saying I found the combat to be limited; the weakest part of the series, and not a sacred part of the franchise. But yes, I agree with Bethesda's direction, and no, I don't think the rest of you are screwed. I think you'll probably really like Fallout 3 if you give it a chance.

 

[Wooz]

LuckyOasis, instead of double-posting, please use the 'edit' button.

The 'give it a chance' line has been used countless times. I suggest you take a look at NMA's articles to understand our stance.

Oh, before I forget.

*casts spell: Summon Roshambo*

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

I played Fallout and Fallout 2, and I loved both of them. I played them both a number of times, including both again recently this past summer. I understood the games, and they were certainly not too complex for me. What exactly do you think I found to be too complex about them? I've only been saying I found the combat to be limited; the weakest part of the series, and not a sacred part of the franchise. But yes, I agree with Bethesda's direction, and no, I don't think the rest of you are screwed. I think you'll probably really like Fallout 3 if you give it a chance.

The game was designed from the ground up to be PnP experience. A "GURPS" Post-Nuclear Role Playing Game.

If the combat is the weakest point, then the developers have severely failed in re-creating a pen and paper system. Which, I believe, they haven't.

*casts spell: Summon Roshambo*

OHFUCK

 

[Sorrow]

The game was designed from the ground up to be PnP experience. A "GURPS" Post-Nuclear Role Playing Game.

If the combat is the weakest point, then the developers have severely failed in re-creating a pen and paper system. Which, I believe, they haven't.

IMO, it is one of the weaker points, because it wasn't intended to be like it is from the beginning, but got added after losing the GURPS licence and is dumbed down in comparision with GURPS advanced combat.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

The game was designed from the ground up to be PnP experience. A "GURPS" Post-Nuclear Role Playing Game.

If the combat is the weakest point, then the developers have severely failed in re-creating a pen and paper system. Which, I believe, they haven't.

IMO, it is one of the weaker points, because it wasn't intended to be like it is from the beginning, but got added after losing the GURPS licence and is dumbed down in comparision with GURPS advanced combat.

That might be so, and many other things in Fallout were quickly strung up in the development process when they were short on resources; but they managed to create something beautiful out of it anyway. If I recall right, in one of the interviews - the ending of Fallout 1 was completely made up on a moment's notice; in the same matter of improvisation. I'd have to say it's bad that the developers didn't get exactly what they wanted (GURPS), but I still like how the game turned out regardless. But this still doesn't compare to the changes that the previous poster talked about. Third person, turn based, PnP gameplay compared to a First Person Action Shooter is a tremendous gameplay change. The best we can look forward to out of Fallout 3 is a STALKER-like gameplay experience. I think we'll agree that STALKER is not Fallout.

 

[Mord_Sith]

Atomic Ninjas review of Fallout 3

Did you guys had a feeling that Bethesda misinterpreted The Brotherhood from Fallout 1 and 2 ?
I mean we had to convince them that They have to do something else about the mutants than rather hide in thier bunker in F1.

Of course they misinterpreted the BoS… for [censored]s sake, they said the BoS were the noble knights of the wasteland, clearing the mutants out of the city. how more wrong can you friggin’ be?

Not to mention their utterly moronic squad behavior (paladins are meant to be elite fighters), their macho cursing (yes, nicely disciplined they are…), them allowing you to pick up a far more advanced weapon than they are carrying from a fallen comrade (can you imagine the BoS handing over tech like that in FO1 without being a member? I think not) and the state of their equipment (sure it might be war, but if a perfectly fine powerarmor doesn’t pass muster due to the solder line on a friggin’ eyepiece… well, then these heaps of trash certainly don’t either).

Pretty Fakking obvious...

-edit-

Besides, what makes you think that the American troops would survive in Canada after the occupation once the bombs dropped, there's bound to be some newfies and a 24 around somewhere!

-Edit 2 (sorry)-

Bos chapters by radio, yeaahhh, isolationist technophiles trying to contact and enlist over the span of the continent, do you realize the distance of a Ham radio's broadcast range?

Wikipedia

Because of the wide bandwidth and stable signals required, amateur television is typically found in the 70 cm (420—450 MHz) frequency range, though limited usage also exists on 33 cm (902—928 MHz), 23 cm (1240—1300 MHz) and higher. These requirements also effectively limit the signal range to between 20 and 60 miles (30—100 km)

-Edit 3-

Correcting myself, it seems shortwave can reach coast to coast.

Wikipedia

By 1924 many additional specially licensed amateurs were routinely making transoceanic contacts at distances of 6000 miles and more. On September 21, several amateurs in California completed two way contacts with an amateur in New Zealand. On October 19th, amateurs in New Zealand and England completed a 90 minute two way contact nearly half way around the world. On October 10th, three shortwave bands were officially made available to amateurs by the Third National Radio Conference, at 80, 40 and 20 meters. The 10 meter band was created by the Washington International Radiotelegraph Conference on November 25, 1927. The 15 meter band was opened to amateurs in the United States on May 1, 1952.

 

[Brother None]

I like Bethesda's idea that you can use the junk lying around to make new weapons

What? You can't do that in Fallout 3.

the opening movie to Fallout.

The guys in the opening movie of Fallout are US soldiers, not BoS paladins.

It seems like you want to see the Brotherhood as knight-like because that's what you're looking for and expecting from Bethesda.

Or because Bethesda has literally called them knights.

All of the troops wore that armor.

Only BoS armour has the BoS insignia, US military armour does not

 

[Sorrow]

That might be so, and many other things in Fallout were quickly strung up in the development process when they were short on resources; but they managed to create something beautiful out of it anyway. If I recall right, in one of the interviews - the ending of Fallout 1 was completely made up on a moment's notice; in the same matter of improvisation. I'd have to say it's bad that the developers didn't get exactly what they wanted (GURPS), but I still like how the game turned out regardless..

Well, even after dumbing down and imrovisation I find Fallout's system one of the best (if not the best) of cRPG combat systems that I have played.

 

[Dracon M'Alkir]

Well, even after dumbing down and imrovisation I find Fallout's system one of the best (if not the best) of cRPG combat systems that I have played.

 

[shihonage]

Yeah, I have to agree with Lucky after playing the old games again after having laid them down years ago.. I am really glad that they are going First person and real-time. The old games really do show their age when you play them. I have really just come the the opinion that in a rpg, I think I like the realtime combat(with pause).. if you want tactical turn-based play, I think it has it's place, but not in rpgs. And yes I have played rpgs since forever, so I have seen the evolution.

In Russia, when we had a checkers board, we could play several games with it. One of them was quite dumb, but fun for 5 minutes. It involved flicking your figures at the opponent's figures and trying to bump them off the board faster than they bump yours off.

Another one was checkers.

What you're seeing is not evolution, it is merely change. And I am tired of games that make me flick checkers off the board.

I just think turn-based removes you too much from the experience.

For some of us there's something quite special about that frozen moment in time, with ominous music and winds sweeping in background, as you move your cursor over the different opponents, seeing percentages of hit probability. "Oh shit, this may not end well".

In fact, frozen moments in time are quite popular in the media, even in shows like Heroes, where Hiro stops time to accomplish his tasks or defeat enemies.

Once the weight of all the variables and calculations that are under the hood of a complex turn-based combat system, them being tightly connected to your hard-"earned" equipment and stats and every quirk that is part of those items, really hits you, you just can't play an RPG without it.

That said, I am starting to sway toward the opinion that a Fallout-like released in this day and age has to have a "hacked-in" option for people with ADD, which switches the combat into WoW/CoH type combat, which is realtime yet loosely turn-based, while displaying a prominent warning that the experience is not authentic, it's not tuned, and you're not playing the game as it was intended. It's like playing Mario with some unlocked gag where he becomes Pacman.

But still, if the option can be hacked in quickly, why not.

 

[Moving Target]

I think the nuke catapult sounds awesome. I like Bethesda's idea that you can use the junk lying around to make new weapons. How do you know it was the car, itself, exploding?

.....Ummmm......

......what?