DBZ

I am shocked at the negativity towards DBZ, i thought this kind of RPG game based forums would like cool animes like DBZ, oh well. Intresting opions about DB though.
 
...If you're going to take a walk on the wrong side and suggest playing excellent CRPGs is anyhow related to DBZ...well, go ahead, should be fun...
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Ghost In The Shell.


Nuff said.
Click to expand...

Yup.

I'm not too into anime, and I really only know the more mainstream series and films. I'm a big fan of Ghost in the Shell (the films and Stand Alone Complex), Cowboy Bebop (mmm, noir), and I've recently been getting into Samurai Champloo. Akira is pretty sweet, too.

Not a big fan of Princess Mononoke, everyone raves about it but it doesn't do too much for me. I watched Steamboy a couple of weeks ago, the setting was cool but I didn't care too much for the actual movie.
 
Richoid said:
I am shocked at the negativity towards DBZ, i thought this kind of RPG game based forums would like cool animes like DBZ, oh well.
Click to expand...

Only if shit like Final Fantasy is your idea of an "RPG".

Really, DBZ is the most overblown and overrated anime ever, which is both ironic and insulting when you consider the amount of cutting and censoring that was done on it, and it might have been an okay story if left at Dragonball instead of rendered into a formulaic and predictable recycling of it's own urine with each new "bad guy".

It's like every time they found the Dragon Balls, I wished that the show would finally be over so my nephew would no longer be watching that dreck, but I was forgiving since he was 12 at the time.

Considering this is a CRPG forum dedicated to one of the finest CRPGs ever made, the quantification of Fallout's quality does not quite match up with the quantity of dreary story arcs and throwaway characters of DBZ.

In short, these aren't the BioWare forums. Try on BioWare's site.

Malk, DDD: Masamune Shirow and Hayao Miyazaki, 'nuff said. Their works together are like complimenting faces of two mirrors, yet one in science fiction of near-Asimov quality, the other as wandering and creative as Jim Henson's forays into the fantastic.

Comparing their work to DBZ would be like comparing Jeunet and Caro or an otherwise decent modern movie director (I honestly can't think of one at the moment) to Tom Green. Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed, Nausicaä, Castle in the Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, Mononoke-hime, Kiki's Delivery Service, Lupin III. And this is from just two directors/manga artists, and I already can cite examples that can whip the shit out of "clearly the best anime in history!" by just their flaws alone.

Then I could go into an anime with a REAL story (compared to DBZ, not Shirow or Miyazaki), REAL character development, and some better action, Neon Genesis Evangelion. BTW, fuck Gundam, aside from generic mechs and occasional action interspersed with some hideously boring dialog that has no relevance to anything you could ever be interested in regards to the show, there was really nothing to it that hadn't already been expressed in far better, imaginative means.

Then I could go into more series befitting noteworthy status better than the spewed crap of DBZ. Such as the one picked up briefly by Cartoon Network, Big-O, which had a far better plot driving ability than "OMG aliens are attacking, we need to go train how to fire our Chi from our asses in a new and improved way...and go blonde to spout ever more fucking stupid things!"

Akira, Lensman, Vampire Hunter D 1&2, Patlabor, Demon City Shinjuku, Record of Lodoss War (I loathe the English dub version), Wicked City, Venus Wars (for animating some damn good combat), Robot Carnival, Silent Möbius, Project A-ko, Dirty Pair (original and Flash) etc. (It's really not even a contest unless you go by numbers, and then you'll find that Pokémon now has a bigger audience than DBZ, so I doubt anyone here will use that kind of quantification from now on.)

That stuff is quality, depending upon your tastes, but there IS something to them other than what eventually amounted to an action figurine marketing campaign.
 
I have to admit that I enjoyed Gundam stemming from a long-held Battletech fandom. I can't get enough of humanoid war machines, though the show "jumped the shark" with Turn A Gundam and has devolved back into a formulaic shitfest. That Tomino did a character play instead of another war drama was a huge deviation from the norm, and the setting worked surprisingly well.

Then I could go into an anime with a REAL story (compared to DBZ, not Shirow or Miyazaki), REAL character development, and some better action, Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Click to expand...

I didn't really notice any character development in Evangelion outside of the last minute "Hey life is alright." At the end of the show, Asuka was still a cunt, the blue-haired chick was still boring, and Misato still wanted to jump Shinji's bones.

Couple that with a bunch of meaningless religious symbology and a story that still makes no fucking sense whatsoever, and you've got a fanservice gumbo that teens and lonely women still debate about as if it had any relevance to anything outside of their lonely depressions.
 
They played some DBZ on Belgian TV at one time.


I thought my television had frozen up.
 
Bradylama said:
I have to admit that I enjoyed Gundam stemming from a long-held Battletech fandom. I can't get enough of humanoid war machines, though the show "jumped the shark" with Turn A Gundam and has devolved back into a formulaic shitfest. That Tomino did a character play instead of another war drama was a huge deviation from the norm, and the setting worked surprisingly well.
Click to expand...

I found other mech series aside from Gundam later on, though I too liked Battletech, only some episodes of MS Gundam I could stomache, the newer Gundam stuff is just plain mind-numbing. There are now a nauseating number of mech anime and manga around, I tend to be far more interested in Shirow's work because he actually knows the basis of what he was designing, plus coupled it with Asimov's angle on humanity with machines.

I didn't really notice any character development in Evangelion outside of the last minute "Hey life is alright." At the end of the show, Asuka was still a cunt, the blue-haired chick was still boring, and Misato still wanted to jump Shinji's bones.
Click to expand...

I wasn't speaking so much about character development overall, as they didn't seem to change much (true), but more about character depth and fleshing them out a bit in relation to what happens. Especially given the blue-haired chick towards the end in regards to the "automated" EVA units.

And hey, I DID say it was in comparison to DBZ. :D

Couple that with a bunch of meaningless religious symbology and a story that still makes no fucking sense whatsoever, and you've got a fanservice gumbo that teens and lonely women still debate about as if it had any relelvance to anything outside of their lonely depressions.
Click to expand...

The beauty in it is that every character and device is created for a reason, though often left ambiguous. Every character has their own personality disorder, their own reason for developing that way, and an exploration of how far mankind has truly "evolved" and "progressed" when it still falls prey to the same problems as before, repeatedly.

Personally, I really couldn't watch it more than twice, as it got annoying. But as I said before, mileage and personal preferences with this may vary, many people do like the religious references and background depth given to Dark Myth, despite almost no action going on; it is mostly an exploration into lore and what it would mean if it proved true in contemporary times. Others despise how it has almost no action whatsoever.
 
I found other mech series aside from Gundam later on, though I too liked Battletech, only some episodes of MS Gundam I could stomache, the newer Gundam stuff is just plain mind-numbing. There are now a nauseating number of mech anime and manga around, I tend to be far more interested in Shirow's work because he actually knows the basis of what he was designing, plus coupled it with Asimov's angle on humanity with machines.
Click to expand...

Shirow's seemed to have developed a bit of a fetish for shiny femmes, though. It's all wet and buffed, like they're a Mall floor.

Turn A is pretty much the best Gundam yet in my opinion. It was original, and had some pretty unique mechanical designs. The new SEED shows, however, are retarded as all Hell. Destiny tried to infuse plot elements ala The War on Terror, only the bad guys ended up ineffective and the good guy was a bad guy, which completely illegitimizes any topical aspect of the retarded plot. They also made the universe implausible within their own property by throwing in rehashed versions of the original One Year War mobile suit designs, but the ZAKUs and DOMs are acronyms this time, so it totally doesn't count. Try explaining that to some braindead Gundam fanboys.

Edit: That is, that the people of two completely different universes with different histories and cultures would end up developing identically and functionally similar weapons systems with similar naming conventions.

I wasn't speaking so much about character development overall, as they didn't seem to change much (true), but more about character depth and fleshing them out a bit in relation to what happens. Especially given the blue-haired chick towards the end in regards to the "automated" EVA units.

And hey, I DID say it was in comparison to DBZ. Very Happy
Click to expand...

True, in comparison to DBZ it has much better production values and a more talented team, as well as a story that is interesting up until the creator stopped caring.

There was a hilarious decoding of the show's character symbology somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

Others despise how it has almost no action whatsoever.
Click to expand...

So much for anime being an "artform." :)

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen any shows other than the romantic comedies or coming of age stories that didn't have any action in them. I'll have to look out for Dark Myth out of principle, now.

Edit: Found it.
 
Bradylama said:
Shirow's seemed to have developed a bit of a fetish for shiny femmes, though. It's all wet and buffed, like they're a Mall floor.
Click to expand...

Shirow's synthetic femme infatuation is for another topic, I think. :D

Turn A is pretty much the best Gundam yet in my opinion. It was original, and had some pretty unique mechanical designs. The new SEED shows, however, are retarded as all Hell. Destiny tried to infuse plot elements ala The War on Terror, only the bad guys ended up ineffective and the good guy was a bad guy, which completely illegitimizes any topical aspect of the retarded plot. They also made the universe implausible within their own property by throwing in rehashed versions of the original One Year War mobile suit designs, but the ZAKUs and DOMs are acronyms this time, so it totally doesn't count. Try explaining that to some braindead Gundam fanboys.

Edit: That is, that the people of two completely different universes with different histories and cultures would end up developing identically and functionally similar weapons systems with similar naming conventions.
Click to expand...

*twitch* Yeah...so they could, like, still call it Gundam and everyone would know what they were talking...about...well, not really. Yeah, that was pretty boneheaded of them.

True, in comparison to DBZ it has much better production values and a more talented team, as well as a story that is interesting up until the creator stopped caring.

There was a hilarious decoding of the show's character symbology somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.
Click to expand...

The Wiki entry has a pretty thorough explanation of the theories, but also explains the psychological disorders each of the main characters have, as well as going into the symbology of 108 Japanese Buddhist Sins, etc.

So much for anime being an "artform." :)

To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen any shows other than the romantic comedies or coming of age stories that didn't have any action in them. I'll have to look out for Dark Myth out of principle, now.
Click to expand...

There is plenty of gore (gratuitous when you involve the "hungry ghosts", those who died without purpose in life and death), but very little action to it, and it is mostly centered around Japanese Buddhism and some fiction, set into modern times and places in rural Japan. Watching it multiple times to see what goes on should be expected. More info here.
 
...

*twitch*

DBZ. Damn. I recall having quite a lot of fights over that diahrrea of an animated series back when I lived in teh Paris ghetto.

Precisely over the fact it was utter shit, and some of my Arab friends loved the violence in that show. Needless to say, the debate level for ten year old kids was pretty low, and it quickly degraded into physical fights.

So when they were busy impersonating their sangoku's or other imbecile heroes, I kicked their balls.

Good times.
 
Wow and I thought the only anime fans were Kotario and Ratty who are hardcore and me though not anywhere near as much. Glad someone brought up the subject.

Which reminds me...

I one day decided to tell my Father about anime and to give an explanation of why I liked it and I wrote this (note the bolded part);

One thing I enjoy that I've been meaning to tell you about I've ignored, because I wasnt sure how to explain it. I'll try now.

I very much enjoy a form of TV and movie entertainment called "anime". Its animation, but not at all like cartoons. The reason being is that its all Japanese and apparently the Japanese dont have any revulsion to gore or adult subjects so there animated shows are often meant to be seen as much by adults as children. However with them being animated it makes it much easier to have stories about science fiction and fantasy.

You see it was around 1998 a close friend exposed me to anime with a show he had on tape. I felt childish watching animation, but I quickly realised these werent "cartoons". They had occasional gore and sometimes discussed innapropriate subjects like drugs or sexuality. Not in a perverse way, but in a way that wouldnt make it much different than most of the shows on TV now. This meant I didnt find it childish and could enjoy it which is lucky since its mostly sci-fi or fantasy and there wasnt much of that on TV at the time that wasnt meant for kids or was done badly. He told me that anime had been brought to the US by people friends with Asians and was slowly gaining popularity and that in a few years it would be on mainstream television.

A few years later Cartoon Network (an American channel) started showing anime late at night after midnight for American audiences. I would stay up late and loved watching it though the only show at the time was "Outlaw Star". Since then Cartoon Network now has multiple anime programs in their "Adult Swim" block which they only show late at night and recently a new channel called "The Anime Network" came about on cable though I dont get it.

Since I often have to get up early I cant stay up late to watch it and currently I'm occupied by other forms of entertainment, but each holiday I'm slowly accumulating DVD episodes and movies of some I've had recommended. There great!

If you stay up late or have a tape I'd suggest watching the anime that comes on after midnight on Cartoon Network if only out of curiosity. One show that was brought over to the US relatively quickly after it was released in Japan and also coincided with the increased showing of anime is "Inuyasha" (dog-demon) which is probably the most popular anime and was what started the enjoyment of anime to be mainstream as far as sci-fi and fantasy go. The show is easy to enjoy since its drama with comedy and action. Basically its meant to be viewed by everyone and anyone.

It seems that anime fans are relatively common now. For your information there is also "manga" which is the written form. A good comparison would be to American "comic books" though manga like anime is adult oriented and has themes children wouldnt understand.

Also if you ever rent movies and you want something that is a perfect example of great anime I think you should watch "Akira" or "Princess Mononoke". I've seen both and many people consider them to be the best movies for anime of all time. I think you would particularly like "Princess Mononoke" if you try to see the symbolism which I think you'd notice.

I've been meaning to tell you all this for awhile, but always thought it would require a bit of an explanation.

I think my enjoyment also coincides with the fact that no good shows for science fiction have come out in the past 5 years though I have some friends telling me that "Stargate: SG 1" is as good as "Star Trek: The Next Generation". I'll watch that show eventually.
Click to expand...

I'm just wondering...did anyone else have kinda the same experience in the sense that they discovered anime at around the same time there was nothing relevant on TV considering sci-fi/fantasy which means they were starved to find something else to enjoy? I sometimes think my liking of anime has just as much to do with anime itself as the fact that its alternatives are nil.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
I just kind of randomly discovered anime when I was younger. My friend and I used to walk to the video store that was down the street, they had a "five movies for five days for five dollars!" kind of deal, so we'd rent whatever looked cool. One rainy afternoon we picked up Vampire Hunter D, and that started it all.


Also, SG:1 is not better than ST:TNG, but it is pretty damn good.


PS - Batman: The Animated Series is arguably the greatest animated series ever created. Take that, Japan!
 
My Dad is far away and I only really email him with rather bland messages saying I'm being productive with a job and college and I'm excited for the future.

He eventually asked what I did in my free time thats just for fun and I he had known nothing about anime.

He actually seemed slightly interested.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
Bradylama said:
Also: in case you missed it before.
Click to expand...
*Ahem*

I don't have much to add (yes, yes; DBZ is amazingly bad and there are various examples of good anime/manga by such assorted aforementioned artists), besides that Azumanga Diaoh is really quite sublime. Trivial, yes, but that is part of the charm (besides, it is nice to get away from the normal conventions). One of the best series in anime history, if it is given serious consideration.

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is looking good, though it is rather too early to say anything definitely. Let it be said this is completely random to the topic, being something I simply happened to have on my mind.
 
Azumanga is a charming little "coming of age story" that I feel one would have to be of distant relation to river trolls not to enjoy on even the lowest levels.

The fact that boys never enter into the picture of a show that follows a group of teenaged girls at a mixed gendered school seems highly suspect, but I suppose the lack of that element adds to the lighthearted appeal.
 
Bradylama said:
NMA isn't exactly an anime-watching crowd by and large.
Click to expand...
i think you would be amazed. but the thing is, NMA is mostly very outspoken on their (diverse) tastes and i doubt any would fall for crackerjack repetitive DBZ crap thats about as deep as Rosh's tolerance for noob bullshit...

as for the stuff i like (keep in mind i'm new to this):

Best (in random order):
Akira (duh...)
GITS
Berserk
Full Metal Alchemist (except the end)
Naruto (except the filler...)
Trigun
Noir
Wolfs Rain
Shingetsutan Tsukihime
Kurau Phantom Memory

worth seeing:
Samurai.X.Trust.and.Betrayal, Hellsing, GetBackers, Gantz, Grenadier

on the shortlist to be watched:
Elfenlied, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Bleach & Full Metal Panic
 
Malkavian said:
Man, I forgot all about Wicked City. Now that was an awesome anime.
Click to expand...

My fondest anime-related memory was mindfucking some poor Mormon Airman by playing that in the lounge. It was a "horrified, yet strangely curious" situation - he was disgusted but couldn't look away or leave. We would have "secured lounge nights" where basically anything could be played, but it was scheduled and marked so nobody could get offended by walking into it, and no porn. He dared to go into the lounge when someone was playing Soft Cel's Countdown, to use the phone to call his wife.

"Dude...there's two cartoon girls on the television...and they're FUCKING!"

Too bad I couldn't have gotten away with some Chôjin densetsu Urotsukidôji. :twisted:

EDIT: Trigun and Hellsing, true, another two great ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top