Dead Space 3

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Tagaziel, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    You quoted my damn post, and then you said ''you guys'' which isin't exactly precise. It's not my fault you can't write clearly and come across as socially inept even on the internet.

    I also like how my opinion is 'gibberish'' and verifiable facts about the game are ''utterly false''. Your posts are entertaining if nothing else.
     
  2. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    And I followed up that post with a response directed at you, then followed that with a new paragraph that expressed succinctly who I was moving on to. Did I have to make some kind of visible barrier to denote that? No. Your lack of reading comprehension does not equate to my lack of writing clarity.

    Verifiable facts indeed. The facts CONTRADICT your points, that's why I said your "opinion" was complete gibberish. Fine, you wanted more, you got more.

    Here's your entertainment (at your expense).

    - - - - -[Visual Divide #1]- - - - -

    "Evil religion, complete with creepy iconography and armies of faceless mooks, has overtaken mankind because everyone being turned into ravenous monsters is such an incredibly awesome prospect."

    You equated ALL Unitologists (including Danik) and their beliefs to Mercer and his beliefs, which is simply and utterly wrong. Unintentional? Well that's what you did. You claimed that they ACTIVELY believe that the Necromorphs are their salvation, when this is entirely not the case. Even in Dead Space- the ONLY game we encounter this, in the form of Challus Mercer -it's made abundantly clear, again and again, that Mercer is the ONLY Unitologist who sees the Necromorphs as his religion's promise. His fellow Unitologists are repeatedly displayed to not share this in the slightest. Verifiable. Examples, the Dead Space comic, logs found in Dead Space, Dead Space: Downfall. All the rest, besides Kyne, see the Necromorphs as just some hostile alien lifeform that coincidentally inhabited Aegis VII, where their precious Marker was located. Verifiable- the Dead Space comic, logs found in Dead Space, Dead Space: Downfall. They REFUSED to believe that the two were in any ways related. Those few who suggested that the Marker be left behind because it "gave them the creeps", or directly or indirectly implied that the Marker was to blame for the colony going to hell, were treated with utter admonishment from the Unitologists, because they COULDN'T ACCEPT that the Marker was anything but Divine, and the notion that the Marker had ANYTHING to do with Necromorphs was utter blasphemy, to them. Example, Captain Matthius, in all of his depictions. When Mercer tried to share his new beliefs that the Marker's plan was for them to "join" the Necromorphs, they spurned him and considered him a lunatic. Verifiable, Dead Space Chapter 10. Kyne was the only Unitologist (that we're aware of) who saw the Necromorphs, and readily accepted (but not before considerable research) that they were the biproduct of the Marker, and his reaction to this was anything BUT welcoming with open arms. He stated, quote, "The Church is WRONG!" and recruits Isaac to try and stop the Necromorph outbreak by returning the Marker to the planet and pacifying the Hivemind.

    This trend of Unitologists staying in denial over the correlation between the Markers and Necromorphs continues in Dead Space 2 and Dead Space (mobile). When Daina expresses at the end of Dead Space 2 Chapter 5 that her church intends to use Isaac to, quote, "Spread glorious convergence to the entire galaxy", this is in reference to Unitology's belief in their depiction of the afterlife, not ACTUAL Convergence, as we discover it to be in Dead Space 2 and Dead Space 3. Her behavior while guiding Isaac and the Unitologists who come up against the Necromorphs in both games (including the exceedingly zealous Inner Circle- Danik's army) consistently treat them as a scourge.

    In the case of the Inner Circle, even its members cannot accept that the "blessing" of the Markers is, in fact, the Necrormophs. Verfiable- Unitologist Artifacts found in Dead Space 3 and Danik's own comments throughout the same game. Its members respond to the horrors of each and every Necromorph outbreak that they unleash as either total proof or at the very least a possibility that Unitology is wrong. In several instances, Unitologists have to reason that the deaths shouldn't be worried over, because EVERYONE will be reborn, if they succeed in their goal, not just the faithful. (This is in stark contrast with their religion up until this point, which "demands a tithing" to get reborn, and this is because they had to rationalize a reason for why they could be correct in doing what they were doing, despite all the evidence that they were completely mistaken.) Even Danik has no such illusions that becoming a Necromorph is his and everyone's gift from the Markers. He repeatedly expresses that his twisted rationalization (although he doesn't perceive it as twisted) is that the Necromorphs are the result of mankind "tampering" with the Markers. Verfiable- Unitologist Artifacts found throughout Dead Space 3. Danik refers to the Red Markers as, quote, "aberrations - these copeis", and blames the Necromorphs they spawn on humanity having tread on God's domain. He expresses at every opportunity that he truly believes that the Black Marker had no such defects (though this is false- Dead Space: Martyr) and that succeeding in his goal will bring about the enlightenment of mankind. He doesn't equate the Necromorphs with this, otherwise, he would have commanded his army to sacrifice themselves to them. Even when faced with the facts of what his actions will bring about, by Isaac (Dead Space 3, Chapter 17) he refuses to accept this, and claims that Isaac simply "fears what he doesn't understand" and again shortly before the finale.

    So, we clearly see the Unitologists are not nearly as absurd as you offhandedly portrayed them. They're certainly MEANT to come off as exceedingly stupid, to players, because we have the benefit of knowing things that they- and even Isaac -are not aware of.

    - - - - -[Visual Divide #2]- - - - -

    "'Romance'' story nobody gives a fuck about (talking of Ellie here)."

    This is ENTIRELY your opinion, and yours alone. I didn't call this "false", so forgive the ambiguity of it being lumped up with the rest in my previous response. It's not false, it's just not true. You don't care, but I and many other fans sure do. Granted, it directly caused SEVERAL of the game's "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???" cutscene moments (which were a glaring flaw of the game, but not unforgivable) and it could have certainly be portrayed better. But the relationship between Isaac and Ellie was explored very well. They never came off as childish, or illogical, and the love triangle felt natural. "The scene" in Chapter 15 was an especially powerful moment in the game. It was infuriating to watch the jealous boyfriend be a jealous boyfriend, sure, but this is no different than watching the Unitologists march to their own destruction. We see things from our perspective as the player, not from the character's perspectives. With the benefit of hindsight, even the irrational behavior exhibited by Captain Norton can appear to make perfect sense, in his emotionally-stressed perspective.

    "Almost every single NPC that's not Isaac or the sane ally du jour is trying their best to get killed by being as stupid as humanly possible."

    Kinda follows the same logic as the above point, hence the lack of a third "Divide". Again, they look stupid from our perspective as the player, but this is no different than watching any horror, suspense, or thriller flick, and screaming at the screen, "HE'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU, YOU DUMB BITCH!!!" The character's don't have the benefit of the omnipresence as the viewers/players do, so unless we place ourselves in their shoes, we can't claim that they're being "as stupid as humanly possible". Norton's behavior, as mentioned above, made perfect sense to him, but he was strained because of the situation. Even the brief character Rosen expresses his rational- not too unlike Norton's -to Isaac, quote "Some of us just wanna go home." (Dead Space 3, Chapter 7)

    The death of the 2 "minor characters" aboard Norton's ship were NOT the result of any form of mental deficiency. One gets taken out by an explosion, the other gets partially decapitated by a piece of debris. Neither of them could have anticipated this. The "more important characters" suffer no bizarre deaths as a result of incompetence, either. One plays an uplifting role as they converse with Isaac throughout the opening Chapters of the game, and ultimately because of an injury, decides to sacrifice for the benefit of the group. The other succumbs to a moment of panic from a phobia, ultimately leaving them vulnerable to a Necromorph. The latter instance FEELS like another "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???" moment, but this is simply the "player knows what's coming" instance, yet again; not the actual character being stupid. It's like blaming the black characters in 80s films for dying so early. It's not their fault they were part of the establishment of a stereotype that the black guy always dies first.

    - - - - -[Visual Divide #3]- - - - -

    "A lone engineer scared out of his mind kills a shipload of Necromorphs, but an entire craft of trained soldiers with Stasis modules gets owned by one. basic. space. zombie."

    This is what made me lose any respect for the integrity of your response. This is just blatant stupidity. You described a TYPICAL "zombie movie scenario", and derided it for being the result of "one. basic. space. zombie." Yeah, society gets destroyed overnight by the apocalyptic plague of [insert whatever] but a few very resourceful protagonists make it out against all odds, despite everyone else failing to do so. This is the "zombie plot model", so why are you even complaining about it? Several times throughout the series, it's openly stated "a single [one] can take out an entire..." and they showed this to be the case. In Dead Space: Aftermath, it was a SINGLE Necromorph that brought down the USG O'Bannon. In Dead Space it was 2 scientists who became infected with the recombinant DNA they were experimenting on, and the escape of one that resulted in the loss of the entire Aegis VII Marker labs. In Dead Space: Downfall, it was a single Infector that snuck aboard the USG Ishimura that led to the Planet Cracker becoming overrun. This is standard "zombie pandemic spreads" scenario stuff, so why are its flaws exclusive to Dead Space and not the genre as a whole?

    - - - - -[Visual Divide #4]- - - - -

    "Coming to terms with your inner demons (via shooting the crap out of them)... apparently blows up the ominous all-purpose evil plot device somehow."

    You clearly misinterpreted the events of Dead Space 2's finale, but you've misinterpreted the entire series thus far (from what I can tell) so this is to be expected. For starters, the final battle was NOT "coming to terms with your inner demons (via shooting the crap out of them)" at all. Isaac had come to terms with his inner demons much earlier, when "Nicole" encountered him with open hostility for the last time, questioning him what she meant to him. Just as Stross was unable to face the truth that he had murdered his wife and child and ultimately snapped, resulting in his death (thus failing the Marker's objective), when Isaac admitted that he felt guilty for Nicole's death because he "made her go" to the Ishimura, and that he couldn't let her go, because she was everything to him, "Nicole" accepted this response, and began helping guide Isaac, rather than haunting him any further. This was the moment Isaac came to terms with his inner demons, and no shooting was involved. Of course, it was likely more to do with the Golden Marker changing its tactics of manipulating Isaac, after it witnessed the failure of its harassing methods on Stross, rather than a genuine "Step 3: Acceptance" as "Nicole" claimed.

    The actual final confrontation that ended the game, on the other hand, was NOT Isaac "coming to terms with his inner demons (via shooting the crap out them)". This was Isaac LITERALLY battling the Marker, itself. Throughout the series, it has been stated with clarity, time and time again, that part of the Markers' mystique is that for an object that can be naturally made, they are unnaturally resilient to any and all damage. It took dropping a "continent" on one simply to shatter it (Dead Space), and it took throwing one such fragment into a nuclear fusion reactor core to destroy it (Dead Space: Aftermath). All verifiable facts.

    For all intents and purposes, Markers are "indestructible", so it was a big deal that Isaac was able to destroy one, on his own. This wasn't done by shooting at it, although from his mental battle with the Marker, it appeared to players (and perhaps Isaac, as well) that he had to shoot at the shadowy images attacking him, "Nicole", and at the "Heart of the Marker" to stop it. This was Isaac literally breaking its control over him, and the effects of this effort are plainly visible in Dead Space 3. He no longer suffers from his dementia-induced hallucinations, and Marker's no longer have an effect on him (unlike Carver, who begins to hallucinate shortly after coming within proximity of a single Black Marker), although his mind is permanently altered. He can read and write Marker script, and is more sensitive to Marker signals, witnessing "visions" as a result of them, but these are Isaac literally translating the psychic information with perfect clarity, not coming under their manipulative influence. But his battle with the Golden Marker was more than freeing his mind of its control; it was disassembling the Marker, itself. Because the Markers are such phenomenal objects of unfathomable power and resilience, entirely due to the signals they are receiving, by Isaac breaking apart the MARKER'S "mental capacity", he effectively rendered it an inert, harmless object. Ironically, what actually destroys Markers was sicking the very same methods against them that they used to manipulate human beings in the first place, into creating more of them, and supplanting dead bodies to allow more Necromorph outbreaks to spread.

    The ending is even left with ambiguity (just as with Dead Space 3's ending) as it's never outright stated if Isaac can CONTROL- or indeed, is even aware of -this "ability" to destroy the Markers. It may have been totally unintentional, but it served his purposes, and benefited him in the long run, so we never see him dwell on that.

    - - - - -[Visual Divide #5]- - - - -
    [spoiler:eb721ca243]"A moon is a giant necromorph you kill by flinging Markers at it??"

    Just plain wrong about that. Not the "moon is a giant Necromorph" part, obviously, but the notion that Isaac "kill by flinging Markers at it". How is poking its eyes out killing it? It's not. The battle with the Moon didn't result in the Moon's death, it resulted in Isaac and Carver recovering the activation module of The Machine. It was the activation of that, which led to the Moon being drawn into the planet, and crushed, that killed it. It's unreal that you missed that.

    Now part of that complaint was also THAT the Moon was a giant Necromorph, and this crops up very often, which I find curious. How is this such a deplorable thing? As I previously mentioned, Necromorphs are an HOMAGE (not rip-off) of several other sci-fi plagues/aliens, including Xenomorphs, The Flood, The Thing, and Zerg. While the Zerg Overmind wasn't a plot twist, The Flood Gravemind was, so allow me to compare the two.

    Both the Gravemind and Moon served IDENTICAL roles in their respective species. Both were assembled by amassing countless tons of dead biomass. Both were collective consciousnesses that psychically controlled their underlings. Both aimed to devour all life in the universe by spreading their contagion. Both manipulate series protagonists to help free them of their imposed confines. There were multiples of both, so neither of them were the true omnipotent controllers of their respective race. Halo (if not the entire franchise) is largely considered one of gaming's storytelling masterpieces, and the manner in which The Flood were introduced (and an unexpected stint of Survival Horror following it) were part of that. The Gravemind rivals only the series' co-protagonist Cortana as the fans' favorite character of the series, because of his personality, which complements (and foreshadows) his sinister intentions. Yet even without his ability to speak, his introduction was neither sudden, nor was there a lack of clues hinting at it, and his role in the story was never one that was questioned like how fans are questioning the role of the Brethren Moons.

    Again, the circumstances of the Moon mirrors that of the Gravemind, yet the reception from fans still differs. The Moon was hinted at both in the actual game Dead Space 2 and by developers afterward, and its true nature was insinuated on multiple occasions throughout Dead Space 3 before it was finally revealed, so its revelation was never sudden and unexpected. Although it doesn't have an audible voice, it does communicate just as the Gravemind does (telepathically) with its potential prey, and simply looking back at its subtle manipulation is bone-chilling to think about. The Moon serves as an excellent antagonist for Dead Space; it simply seems that it's not liked nearly as much as its contemporaries, such as the Overmind, because it's never heard speaking, directly, just as Pocahontas was criticized for having animals that couldn't speak. But such a criticism is childish to make.[/spoiler:eb721ca243]

    So, there you have it. All of you points, which I'd claimed were "false", proven untrue, and all with the very same verifiable facts that you insisted coincided with your "opinions". Enjoy!
     
  3. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    1. And nobody makes the Marker-Necros connection? They have access to tons of information, it's not like it would be a secret to them. It may be unrelenting denial if not willfull sacrifice, but it's still bloody stupid that they didn't catch on. And them being so powerful is utterly puzzling; seriously, entire armies of mooks? Able to openly defy the government? Fleets? It's really far-fetched. Before you say it happened before, that was in the Middle Ages, with an uneducated population and a large power vacuum. With a seemingly powerful, unifying government and a fairly educated society, such fanatical bloodlust and extreme power seems extremely unlikely, designed only to make the player hate something (the fanatical religion of evilness), then shoot at something human.

    2. Jealous boyfiend? His very first message towards Isaac after he just meets Ellie is basically to threatren him. While both of them are in a Necromorph-filled ship. And it only becomes more stupid from there, looks like. Genre-driven stupidity is still stupidity. If he wanted to go home and wanted Isaac to stay away from his girlfriend, why the hell recruit Isaac for a mission that has a strong likelyhood to have necromorphs in it (since they're presumably going after Markers)?

    I'm not ''blaming'' characters (how can I, they don't write themselves do they?), I'm ''blaming'' writers and their propensity to make disposable NPCs that exist to accomplish a task, then die to fishy circumstances. And Dead Space does that a lot. And I don't like it at all.

    3. Are you serious? Because the genre does it sometimes, it's OK to include incredibly retarded plot points in our game? That's your excuse? It was a military warship, filled to the brim with heavily armed soldiers with Stasis modules. Against the basic Necromorph that Isaac dispatches with a few rifle bursts without a second thought. And they get owned. it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, moreso because it's a key plot point. It doesn't happen off-screen, so you can't just imagine the army got overwhelmed or whatnot. They really got the entire ship slaughtered by one dumb necro. It didn't even have reinforcements, as these cannot produce other necros by themselves. Sorry, there is no defending that absurdity. There's ''the protagonist is incredibly competent'' and then there's ''everybody BUT the protagonist cannot show any sort of competence whatsoever''. How can you explain otherwise that Necromorphs are apparently so devastating that lone ones can take down entire stations, but that Isaac kills thousands of them alone? The Ishimura is justified, it's a civilian ship that was boarded by an infector.

    4. So in short, he destroys a marker with his mind somehow because the plot demands it. Thanks for proving my point. What exactly is there to interpret? In his head, he shoots the visual reprsentation of the Marker, or its consciousness or what have you, and then the Marker spontaneously ceases to exist. This isin't some deep concept to grasp. It's no more complicated than Sauron vanishing when the One Ring gets destroyed.

    5. [spoiler:df48e7d118] Yes, it was the very concept that made me chuckle in disbelief. It was lame, cliche, overdone, B-movie worthy, ect. It's a telltale sign of writers trying way too hard to add something big and impressive and ''epic'' for the player to fight. Just like the Human-Reaper in ME2. [/spoiler:df48e7d118]

    So there you have it, not convincing me at all that DS didn't have a silly story. Your attempt was commendable (no sarcasm, it was) but it fixed nothing.
     
  4. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Wrong again. You're confusing a gameplay mechanic with canon. Necromorphs "reproduce" just like any zombie. Coming into contact with them will mean you've come into contact with their recombinant DNA, and if you die and are within the influence of a Marker, this means you will be reanimated as a Necromorph. Again, verifiable (Dead Space: Extraction). Just because IN-GAME an Infector is required to produce more Necromorphs (which originally was just to showcase them producing ENHANCED variants, not generic forms) does not mean it's an absolute necessity for the species. It's not. Sources confirm this to be the case, and it was never like this was a confusing matter to begin with. YOU just never grasped that (like everything else).

    Furthermore, a military vessel is populated by MORE than military personnel. There are always engineers and non-combat-geared individuals stationed where they're needed, and it can easily be assumed that non-combat personnel were stationed where the USM Valor recovered the Necromorph-inhabited escape pod. Why would they need soldiers armed and ready to open an escape pod? All it took was the death of a single person to start the chain of events leading to the death of everyone on board. You simply don't allow for the POSSIBILITY of something you don't like to make any sense. It's not that it actually doesn't make any sense.

    Hah. And how does this matter? I've already voiced that WINNING a debate is meaningless to me, next to being on the right side of it, and this is no different. I don't care that I can't convince you. You're stubborn, bull-headed, and in denial. I KNOW I can't convince you, just like no one can convince a Unitologist that their revered Markers will lead to their own race's extinction. (Yes, I'm comparing you to a Unitologist that you spent your opening "rebuttal" railing against so spitefully.) It doesn't matter to me that you're not convinced. I've displayed solid facts, not sweeping speculation, and they corresponded with my stance, so all evidence appears to support that I'm on the right side of this argument. Your agreement on this matter is of total irrelevance.

    Cute attempt (and subsequent failure) at turning my words around on their head, though. Kudos for trying. =)
     
  5. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    You make it seem like it's some sort of brilliantly written epic when it's a story about space zombies killing everyone but the protagonist because the plot says so. Take your ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm done with this farce.

    Oh, and if you want to seem brilliant in your head, at least adress all the points a person makes. Why the hell are you even frequenting a forum if you refuse to see anything but your way?
     
  6. Multidirectional

    Multidirectional Mildly Dipped

    531
    Sep 12, 2008
    And I used to think the fact that Dead Space has crap writing should be, like, common sense. Wonders of internet.
     
  7. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    The necromorphs are Unitology's intended end result of marker exposure.

    The problem here is that you do not understand the Dead Space story. The entire human race is on the brink of going extinct due to resource shortages. Planet cracking imploded after the Ishimura disaster and humanity is rapidly depleting its reserves. Just the fact they can access resources in space, doesn't mean they can efficiently exploit them to met the ravenous demand.

    Second, Unitology exploded due to a religious vacuum. It was the first religion with actual, physical evidence of divinity (or so the founders thought, after they killed Altman). By 2514 it's also a massive mainstream religion with billions of followers, many of them thoroughly indoctrinated.

    Third, EarthGov's power is slipping, due to both the resource shortage and aggression from the Church of Unitology. Markers were a last ditch effort to regain their footing, but after Titan, it's no longer an option.

    Basically, human society is imploding. That's the key point you miss.

    Yeah, that was crappy writing. It's like Norton suddenly went full retard the moment they reached Tau Volantis. He was a gruff, but competent officer on Luna and during the initial sequence on the Eudora. Then he's, well, a moron. Suddenly and unexpectedly.

    Actually, as pointed out in Dead Space 3, a single necromorph is enough to cause infestation. It's a retcon, but it patches up the plot hole you mention.

    It doesn't cover the rest of them, most notably how the marines on a black operation, armed to the teeth, expecting danger, opened the escape pod without any kind of cover or even peeking in through the porthole.

    It's a hallucination caused by the marker. Isaac was shooting the big glowing thingie in it, but in reality, he was destroying the marker (containment devices or similar). It's not hard to grasp. Carver experiences the same thing during his crazy segments.

    You've been dealing the same ways with giant necromorphs since DS1.

    Also, Ilosar, tone down the hostility. You're coming across as very immature with your "Take your ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm done with this farce. " attitude.
     
  8. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    You make a good point. I got that everything is far from roses and sunshine, but it still seems a bit out there than a religion got big enough to have armies of fanatics and fleets enough to rival the government. Not impossible, just... out there and far-fetched. Like, say, Cerberus having the ressources to suddendly have a massive army in ME3. Yes, they tried to explain that one, but it was still very, very clumsy and I see it as an excuse to have humans to shoot at to vary from the space zombies.

    Also, there's no real doubt that Unitology is depicted as evil, or at least so dark grey as to make little difference. The entire church is based on a giant lie, for starters, and of course the trying to kill you or taking you alive for evil experiments thingie.


    Exactly. That the necro would do some damage is expected, they don't know about the dismemberment thing, but taking on the entire ship? That's just preposterous. I honestly didn't know about the infection spreading as soon as someone gets offed by a necro, but that seems both a retcon and something that should have been made clear in the first place. Not including that important detail reeks of sloppy writing at best, and there's only so much gameplay and story segregation I can stomach before simply ceasing to take the story seriously.

    Wasn't the battle all in his mind? Which is why, if you lose, Isaac is seen standing around, then impaling himself with his own Javelin? Because hallucination or not, I really don't see how small arms fire could harm a Marker, let alone destroying it so completely. I always thought that he won a mental battle (represented by a fight, because video game) and that the Marker just... broke down... somehow.

    Well, there's giant, and there's this. I just think they went overboard there is all. The Convergence concept is kinda interesting, but breaks suspension of disbelief a bit. [spoiler:1ad58a8b3f]Cobbling who knows how many bodies together in space to form a sentient moon? Meh. Trying too hard, I say, but that's just me.[/spoiler:1ad58a8b3f]

    I get extremely annoyed when people act like know-it-alls with vast intellect and moral superiority, and being smugly compared to a religious fanatic because I don't subscribe to a person's opinion stretches my patience very, very fast.
     
  9. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Once again, your lack of reading comprehension is your problem, not mine, nor any sign of my lacking writing clarity. I said FROM THE START that the series' story has its pitfalls, but that the end result is still "good". Never did I claim it's some "brilliantly written epic", you simply (falsely) interpret it that way. Likewise to the "point" that I "refuse to see anything but [my] way". You couldn't grasp what I said if that's what you think I said. "Being right" is not the same as "always right". It takes effort. It takes critical introspection at a constant level, so much so that it borders on pathological self-doubting. It NECESSITATES contemplating what others think. You can't be right if you're not, ya'know, actually right. It's not self-righteous, it's the exact opposite. I simply expressed that "winning" is meaningless. If I'm on the losing side, so be it, as long as it's the right side. But if it's the wrong side, I don't care if I win; it's still wrong. YOU have to be full of yourself to interpret that as "holier-than-thou".

    Except that they're not, like I already explained. Mercer was the only Unitologist who believed that the Necromorphs were his religion's promise of "rebirth", and everyone he shared this with thought he was deranged. Unitologists COULDN'T accept that their holy Marker and Necromorphs were related. The fact that they were didn't matter. It's not a question that the two are related. It's simply addressed, in every game, that Unitologists CAN'T ACCEPT that. They see the correlation every time. People point out the "coincidences" to them, but they can't bring themselves to accept that their faith was wrong. This is simple Theology 101.

    No more "evil" than the "religion" they were based off of. Scientology is founded off of one big lie, and they have genuine power and control to levy influence where they see fit. Although they don't kidnap for purposes of "evil experiments thingie", they DO kidnap, house-arrest, brainwash, you name it. No moral person SHOULDN'T see if for what it is: evil. But that doesn't change the fact that they can't see it that way. Grow up "knowing" only one way, without knowing the reality that it's all wrong, and tell me it's obvious to you how mistaken you are. So it is with Unitology. It's very well depicted, and yet skirts the line just barely enough to avoid being sued to kingdom come, considering its "inspiration".


    Like I already pointed out, it's NOT a retcon, it was part of the story since the beginning. It was explained in Dead Space that the origin of the infections was the recombinant DNA, and this was demonstrated in Dead Space: Extraction. Both games were released at the same time, and both games simultaneously launched the series. I mean, isn't "established from the start" a core definition of "not retcon"?


    Did you never play Halo, or something? Because I already addressed this with the glaringly obvious comparisons to the Gravemind. They're. The. Same. Damn. Thing. You can be a "Halo sux" fanboy, if that's your thing, but you'd be a colossal moron to insinuate that it isn't hailed for its storytelling (or at least parts of it), and the Gravemind is part of that. The method of infection is all that differs, between the two. One is the result of "vestigial" soldiers and non-combatant biomass simply merging, the other is forcibly drawn into a singular, critical mass by ways of a powerful gravitational force (or thereabouts).

    Here's a thought: Don't do it, then? I did nothing more than state the truth. You've been full of yourself, and your stubbornness in this topic rivals that of the Unitologists you, ironically, find so deplorable because of their incompetence and dim-wittedness. I'm stubborn, of course, but so what? I embrace that, because it's who I am. Used properly, that's not a negative quality. But you haven't been using it properly, in this discussion. Being stubborn doesn't mean I refuse to acknowledge facts (I even went out of my way to address your points, despite the fact that they were simply and utterly wroooooooooong), it just means I'm willing to stick up for something I find important. And the truth, as far as I'm concerned, trumps all. Whether Dead Space is an amazing story or just a good one is subjective, so that's not what I'm talking about. However, when I asked people to explain to me why they said it's story "made no sense" (among other complaints), you provided solid statements that I could refute with absolute certainty, except you refused to acknowledge that they were refuted. Doing so wasn't "proof" that the series is perfect, it was simply a clear demonstration that YOUR reasons were false.

    Your problem, ultimately, is a lack of comprehension. It's infuriating that I demonstrate a point, then you'd follow it up with a claim that ignores the point in its entirety, and you've done this several times. THAT'S why I can't be bothered to "address all the points a person makes", because what's the point, with you? You'll just ignore them as if I never said them.

    I don't hate you, Ilosar, and honestly, I'm not trying to go out of my way to insult you. This topic is, to my recollection, the first and ONLY instance where I've found myself at such odds with you. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm trying to demean you, but I'm just doing what I always do; stick to the facts to the bitter end. I've got no problem with you not liking Dead Space as much as me; to each their own. It's just the manner you're addressing it. You come off (to me) as though because you don't like it, nobody else should, and that your reasons for disliking it should be universally shared. If you could just acknowledge that you're wrong when proven wrong, I'd have no problem with your take on the series. Taste is subjective, and not based on facts. Opinion is all bullshit, but everyone has one. You can say what you want about the series, but as long as it can be addressed with facts, I will do so. You stating "I don't like it" is something I can't touch, so if that's all you've got to say, then we have no issue.
     
  10. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I'm reviving the game to say that I think I broke the game.

    Basically, on Impossible, I'm breezing through the endgame thanks to my two trusty guns.

    The first, the Smartgun, is a double chaingun with a total of 342 rivets, an insane rate of fire, +12 Damage EACH and to top the ridiculous off, it has Stasis coating. Basically, whatever I point it at dies. It's like a chainsaw, except with rivets instead of teeth.

    The other is a battle rifle with a rocket launcher underneath. Both +12 Damage, making each already powerful bullet in the 20 round magazine the equivalent of an anti-materiel round and the rocket launcher just ridiculous, especially since it has the explosion amplifier installed.

    I love this game.
     
  11. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    That's what I love about the new Weapon Crafting system (and why I wrote a guide for it). It doesn't matter how good one weapon is, there's HUNDREDS of other possibilities, and they can account for personal tastes for all kinds of gamers.

    I personally don't care much for Rocket Launchers, because I get by with regular Grenade Launchers, and I like having twice the clip capacity. I also found myself very, very satisfied with combining a Force Gun and a Shotgun with Acid Bath attached, which would decimate anything in front of me. And yet in all the experimentation I've done, I've explored and read about countless other designs, each one sounding perfectly appealing, and many users swearing by something I wouldn't have thought to create. The design possibilities are just so damn entertaining!

    Why's it called the "Smartgun", by the way? <.<
     
  12. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    youre still supposed to play an survival horror game *ducks and cover* :hide:
     
  13. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    I prefer the rocket launcher because of its point-and-shoot nature (and bigger 'splosions, particularly with the MK-V amplifier). Clip size is not a problem, since I've nearly maxed out the reload stat for the military engine base.

    It's a cheeky Aliens reference. While the Aliens Smartgun is an independently tracking light machine gun with perfect accuracy, my Smartgun simply fires so much ammunition in a given direction that it's impossible not to hit. I actually giggled like a madman when Furioso enlightened me to the beauty that is the chaingun.

    I'm playing System Shock 2.
     
  14. AskWazzup

    AskWazzup Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Aug 21, 2008
    The number 3 gives away that this game is trash, no point in discussing it anymore :lol:
     
  15. Multidirectional

    Multidirectional Mildly Dipped

    531
    Sep 12, 2008
    So, finally started playing this after replaying DS2. Holy crap does it insist on kicking my ass. I'm actually tempted to drop down difficulty to Hard. Plasma cutter is still my best weapon as I don't have resources to craft anything better yet, in chapter 5. I'm hoping lowering difficulty won't be necessary, I'd hate that.
     
  16. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    I go the opposite route, where my Military Engine core AND Survey Charge core have their clips maxed, so I rarely have to bother with reload, until a fight is over. Once again, how I love that the Weapon Crafting system can allow for nigh-infinite variation that satisfies practically every taste. =)

    Some players made "double barreled" Rocket Launchers to get around the lack of ammo capacity, but that just seemed like a waste, to me. I preferred to use precision at a distance, and rely on the Grenade Launcher (with Explosion Guard), Force Gun, and Shotgun when in close quarters. It made all those instances of calling down the supply elevators and waiting for Necromorphs to spawn after it locked down a very simple matter of "stand in corner, shoot in front of me, nothing ever comes close".

    I like stacking as much as I possibly can of particular attributes, so I end up with a weapon that possesses monstrous properties. For example, my Shotgun is affixed to a S.C.A.F. Frame (+33% Damage) and is upgraded with 4x +3DMG/+3SPD Circuits, so its rate of fire is almost seamlessly semi-automatic, and its damage output shreds Necromorphs to pieces, even at a considerable distance! I would have added even more to it to further increase its damage into the range of obscenity, like the Mk V Full Zoom Scope, but I found that to be more of an inconvenience than a helpful Attachment, especially in the case of a not-typically-long-range weapon such as the Shotgun. Still, it's theoretically applicable to make it even more pointlessly beastly. =)
     
  17. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well apparently a Dutch games website got a rumor that EA has declared the Dead Space franchise to be 'Dead'.
    The sales of Dead Space 2 and 3 have been thus far very disappointing, making EA decide to cancel the pre production of Dead Space 4 (this is the biggest rumor bit) which had already started.

    If I can find some reliable English sources about this news I will post it here.
     
  18. SnapSlav

    SnapSlav NMA's local DotA fanatic

    Jul 1, 2012
    Yeah, from what I heard there was confirmation that 2 separate studios under the name "Visceral" were being laid off by EA- one which had nothing to do with Dead Space, and was being completely liquidated, and the other being the actual Visceral behind Dead Space, just being "downsized". Since this was following a claim that EA "required" 5 million copies sold of the game to "justify keeping it", it appeared to most that this was EA's response to not getting the unreasonable numbers they were demanding.

    That's not to say the series is actually going to be killed off, of course. Visceral will be forced to cut back on their staff, but they'll still be around. If they get booted completely, we can still see a change in hands like we did with Duke Nukem or Fallout, so that name will be perpetuated even if by a different party. In short, it's all just an absurdly political matter. From a practical standpoint, Dead Space may indeed be "dead", but not necessarily from a standpoint of "Will there be no more games?" That remains unfortunately nebulous.