Dead State is now on Kickstarter

[Radman]

Lexx, I take it you're the 'shoot first' type of DayZ player then...

The game has changed since its initial release for the worse in my opinion, team-work isnt happening and the maturity of the playerbase has dropped significantly.

DayZ is still a very good survival game but it is being spoilt by this type of mentality.

Oh NOEZ! I am suffering from the logical, natural reaction to the incentive structure that the game provides!

Yeah this is the type of attitude im talking about...

Becasue it is SO MATURE to call people "MW kiddies" for acting logically in a game, that only gives you so much incentive, right?

You reap what you sow.

I'm sure I do...

MW players or 'kiddies' are a special breed of players that aren't really renowned for their maturity, infact I blame them for the slow, dumbing down of modern gaming...

The fact is when the alpha was first released team work was something that was emphasised. I remember teaming up with a bloke I'd met out scavenging in a barn, we stuck together for a good four hours and found some decent loot. We parted ways and that was that.

Now with your mentality you'd have just shot him as soon as you saw him for his beans, 45 ammo (it was 45 at the time) and his water bottle.

DayZ isn't supposed to be a deathmatch game - it's supposed to be a survival game with emphasis on teaming up.

 

[Lexx]

Now with your mentality you'd have just shot him as soon as you saw him for his beans, 45 ammo (it was 45 at the time) and his water bottle.

Well, no. I'd have to shot him, because if he has seen me, he will probably shot me.

DayZ isn't supposed to be a deathmatch game - it's supposed to be a survival game with emphasis on teaming up.

Then the game mechanic must change, because currently it is a full pvp, full loot game, where you can lose all your progress from the past hours in 2 seconds.

But yes. As soon as someone is suggesting something, at least a million want-to-be hardcore realism players are swinging the "carebear" and "realism" club.

I was suggesting a kind of parley!-system. If two players meet each other and agree on parley, they cannot kill each other for x minutes. This won't solve the problem, but it is a start to add "technical trust" to the game (other people could still kill you while that). Of course, this idea was shot down, because we ain't no needing for carebear shebang.

 

[Radman]

Now with your mentality you'd have just shot him as soon as you saw him for his beans, 45 ammo (it was 45 at the time) and his water bottle.

Well, no. I'd have to shot him, because if he has seen me, he will probably shot me.

My point of the post was he didnt shoot me, nor did I shoot at him. The first couple of minutes were tense, with me shouting 'friendly' down the mic at him and him doing the same but it turned out he was just doing what I was trying to do - trying to survive.

DayZ isn't supposed to be a deathmatch game - it's supposed to be a survival game with emphasis on teaming up.

Then the game mechanic must change, because currently it is a full pvp, full loot game, where you can lose all your progress from the past hours in 2 seconds.

But yes. As soon as someone is suggesting something, at least a million want-to-be hardcore realism players are swinging the "carebear" and "realism" club.

I was suggesting a kind of parley!-system. If two players meet each other and agree on parley, they cannot kill each other for x minutes. This won't solve the problem, but it is a start to add "technical trust" to the game (other people could still kill you while that). Of course, this idea was shot down, because we ain't no needing for carebear shebang.

In a way I agree, it should be about realism over hand holding or forced mechanics.

Its a tricky one but I firmly believe the mentality of the playerbase needs to change.

I'd sooner see some form of 'mental state or emotion' bar where needless killing affects your player in various ways - be it shaking or throwing up or some other negative trait - criminals who kill often go through these fazes, even hardened criminals.

 

[Sub-Human]

I'd sooner see some form of 'mental state or emotion' bar where needless killing affects your player in various ways - be it shaking or throwing up or some other negative trait - criminals who kill often go through these fazes, even hardened criminals.

Or they could put a big-ass marker above your head and make you glow in the dark. Counter Strike style. So next time someone sees you, they'll give you a headshot and you won't even notice them.

 

[gumbarrel]

MW players or 'kiddies' are a special breed of players that aren't really renowned for their maturity, infact I blame them for the slow, dumbing down of modern gaming...

And of course, this is based on your genuine interactions with them and not on any preconceived notions about the "MW kiddie" stereotype, right?

The fact is when the alpha was first released team work was something that was emphasised.

And how exactly was it "emphasised" with the gameplay mechanics? There really wasn't (and still isn't, from what i've seen) that much of an incentive for you to team with a complete stranger. You can still do all the team work you want with friends on board, ofc.

Also, in the begining people didn't know any better. So the situation in your little anecdote was more common. But as it was already explained to you multiple times, the mechanics of the game simply incentivise people to shoot, rather then try to befirend, random strangers. Has nothing to do with your made up "MW kiddie" mentality that somehow go in to a game, that has nothing in common with that type of game at all.

Now with your mentality you'd have just shot him as soon as you saw him for his beans, 45 ammo (it was 45 at the time) and his water bottle.

Yes but, again, that's just how the game works right now. It is plain and simply safer and more convinient for players to do that. So, a lot of peolle will do just that.

DayZ isn't supposed to be a deathmatch game - it's supposed to be a survival game with emphasis on teaming up.

Yes, and Modern Warfare is supposed to be a "Realistic Military Shooter", but it's totally the players mentality that makes it dumb and not the game itself, right?

Truth is, most players will adjust their behaviour based on how the game actually works, rather than how you think it should work in fantasy land.

As of right now, this is what players do, becase this is the best possible alternative they have, and this is something, that has happened to other games in the past.

It's the game that needs to change, not the player's mentality.

 

[mobucks]

Maybe for every murder you commit, the next time you die, you can't start a new character for X minutes. Not really the place to post suggestions I know but I'm pretty much done with DayZ for now so

 

[Crni Vuk]

so ... Lexx ruined it for you. Never guessed he would be so evil

 

[Radman]

MW players or 'kiddies' are a special breed of players that aren't really renowned for their maturity, infact I blame them for the slow, dumbing down of modern gaming...

And of course, this is based on your genuine interactions with them and not on any preconceived notions about the "MW kiddie" stereotype, right?

I think the gaming community in general will support my opinion on the MW playerbase...

And how exactly was it "emphasised" with the gameplay mechanics? There really wasn't (and still isn't, from what i've seen) that much of an incentive for you to team with a complete stranger. You can still do all the team work you want with friends on board, ofc.

Considering it take two people to use a blood pack and your chances of survival increase dramatically when working with another seems to fit this - then of course i'd argue the built in voice communication system promotes team work.

Also, in the begining people didn't know any better. So the situation in your little anecdote was more common. But as it was already explained to you multiple times, the mechanics of the game simply incentivise people to shoot, rather then try to befirend, random strangers. Has nothing to do with your made up "MW kiddie" mentality that somehow go in to a game, that has nothing in common with that type of game at all.

There were still bandits in the game, whats changed is the type of people who played.

Similar thing happened to another online game that was looking to be very promising, perhaps you've heard of it (perhaps not) Face of Mankind?

In 2005 you had a mature playerbase but it quickly got infiltrated by morons and idiots who saw the game as nothing more then a TF2 clone.

Yes but, again, that's just how the game works right now. It is plain and simply safer and more convinient for players to do that. So, alot of peolle will do just that.

But what? Thats murder - its considered murder ingame and the only reason 'thats the way it is' is because people continue to do it - instead of assessing a situation and going in peacefully or shock horror resorting to words they'd sooner pull the trigger on their gun and be done with it.

Yes, and Modern Warfare is supposed to be a "Realistic Military Shooter", but it's totally the players mentality that makes it dumb and not the game itself, right?

Are you a Modern Warfare player by any chance? Yes it is the playerbase - look at how SA:MP RPG works or other close nit RP communities - they dont have this problem because they are mature players.

Truth is, most players will adjust their behaviour based on how the game actually works, rather than how you think it should work in fantasy land.

As of right now, this is what players do, becase this is the best possible alternative they have, and this is something, that has happened to other games in the past.

It's the game that needs to change, not the player's mentality.

I disagree, the playerbase needs to change its current mentality - it boils down to restricting freedom again. Im not against bandits but it defeats the purpose of the bloody game if everyone is hostile or a murdering sociopath for no valid reason.

 

[TorontoReign]

Most of this is irrelevant to Dead State and Kickstarter. Fucking start a new thread or something.


Just hate to see a good topic derailed.



$91,580 Pledged of $150,000 Goal. Hopefully it makes it.

 

[gumbarrel]

I think the gaming community in general will support my opinion on the MW playerbase...

Another baseless assumption, also, Argumentum ad populum.

Considering it take two people to use a blood pack and your chances of survival increase dramatically when working with another seems to fit this - then of course i'd argue the built in voice communication system promotes team work.

It is incredibly easy to get voice communication in every multiplayer game ever made with modern 3rd party programs. And how exactly does voice communication in DayZ promote team work any more than in any other game out there with the same feature built in (like Modern Warfare)?

Considering it take two people to use a blood pack and your chances of survival increase dramatically when working with another seems to fit this

Sure, but there is always that huge risk on the back of players heads - will he backstab me at any point?

Can I actually rely on him? Will he take his sweet time to revive me?

Can I trust him to not accidentally shoot me? And if he DOES shoot me and I defend myself, I will become a BANDIT. Can I take that risk?

All of these become pretty big concerns when you can loose EVERYTHING as a result.

Of course, playing with FRIENDS that you can actually fully trust kind of negates most of these (and sometimes you can't even trust those people as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZM3SBZTzvwA#t=2874s), but they are still HUGE concerns when it comes to playing with complete strangers.

There were still bandits in the game

So what? You can become a bandit by defending yourself, or by accidentally shooting a team mate in a fire fight. Not to mention players who just spawned, who used to be hardcore player killers with their previous characters.

But what? Thats murder - its considered murder ingame and the only reason 'thats the way it is' is because people continue to do it - instead of assessing a situation and going in peacefully or shock horror resorting to words they'd sooner pull the trigger on their gun and be done with it.

If you defend yourself from a team of bandits, guess what, your team is now bandits as well.

You accidentally shoot your team mate in a fire fight, you are now a bandit.

The game simply has no way of knowing weather or not something is murder, or self defence, or an accident. So the bandit system is worthless right now.

Also, the PvE is pretty underdeveloped right now, so people don't focus on it as much as on the PvP aspect.

I disagree, the playerbase needs to change its current mentality - it boils down to restricting freedom again. Im not against bandits but it defeats the purpose of the bloody game if everyone is hostile or a murdering sociopath for no valid reason.

Even if we assume, that the playerbase is the real problem, then how the hell are you going to change that?
Are you going to use a magic stick to change their way of thinking?You will still have to address the problem by changing the game itself.

 

[Radman]

Another baseless assumption, also, Argumentum ad populum.

But its not baseless though is it? Its widely held that MW arent the most mature of playerbases - you cant dispute this...

It is incredibly easy to get voice communication in every multiplayer game ever made with modern 3rd party programs. And how exactly does voice communication in DayZ promote team work any more than in any other game out there with the same feature built in (like Modern Warfare)?

Because its localised voice communication, meaning that only players within a certain area can hear you, this would suggest the devs intended players communicate with one another - I wasnt talking about 3rd party programs, I was talking about the system ingame.

Sure, but there is always that huge risk on the back of players heads - will he backstab me at any point?

Can I actually rely on him? Will he take his sweet time to revive me?

Can I trust him to not accidentally shoot me? And if he DOES shoot me and I defend myself, I will become a BANDIT. Can I take that risk?

Thats the point, you'll never know if you simply gun the chap down in cold blood will you?

All of these become pretty big concerns when you can loose EVERYTHING as a result.

Yup they are, but welcome to a realistic survival game...

Of course, playing with FRIENDS that you can actually fully trust kind of negates most of these (and sometimes you can't even trust those people as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZM3SBZTzvwA#t=2874s), but they are still HUGE concerns when it comes to playing with complete strangers.

I agree but why should you instantly shoot someone because they arent on your ventrilo channel?

Wheres the fun in it?

So what? You can become a bandit by defending yourself, or by accidentally shooting a team mate in a fire fight. Not to mention players who just spawned, who used to be hardcore player killers with their previous characters.

Im talking actual bandits, not just in name...

If you defend yourself from a team of bandits, guess what, your team is now bandits as well.

You accidentally shoot your team mate in a fire fight, you are now a bandit.

The game simply has no way of knowing weather or not something is murder, or self defence, or an accident. So the bandit system is worthless right now.

Also, the PvE is pretty underdeveloped right now, so people don't focus on it as much as on the PvP aspect.

Agreed the PVE needs working on.

Even if we assume, that the playerbase is the real problem, then how the hell are you going to change that?
Are you going to use a magic stick to change their way of thinking?You will still have to address the problem by changing the game itself.

I believe players should go into a game with a more adult mindset - If Face of Mankind taught me anything its that once you gave a community total freedom, certain people will always find a way to abuse it.

 

[mobucks]

Split? there is a thread in general gaming for DayZ. LOL at this video

Of course, playing with FRIENDS that you can actually fully trust kind of negates most of these (and sometimes you can't even trust those people as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZM3SBZTzvwA#t=2874s), but they are still HUGE concerns when it comes to playing with complete strangers.

 

[Lexx]

I agree but why should you instantly shoot someone because they arent on your ventrilo channel?

Man, understand. You should kill someone instantly, because else they will kill you (chance for that is good). Then you lost your progress from the past hours(!) or days(!). This sucks for most people. Guess why it is so popular to disconnect from the server in a firefight? Nobody wants to lose their hard grinded equipment.

Yup they are, but welcome to a realistic survival game...

But it is NOT realistic. The dude in front of me with his handgun, he is pointing always at my head with it, because he doesn't have animations to holster his gun! Also his face is never scared, never angry, his eyes are always dead and they tell me nothing about his current mood. Will he kill me in the next minute, because he is laughing right now on his chair at home about what a fool I am to trust him? No idea. But will I want to find out with losing my cool weapons and rare backpack? Nope!

There is no trust in this game when it comes to strangers and - like was said already often in here - this is pretty much because of how the game works. This has just nothing to do with being mature

 

[Crni Vuk]

Lexx is right. Just accept his logic.

 

[gumbarrel]

There is no trust in this game when it comes to strangers and - like was said already often in here - this is pretty much because of how the game works. This has just nothing to do with being mature

What's laughable is his definition of mature - if I am following this correctly, mature to him means playing the game the way that HE wants. All those people that are playing the game in DIFFERENT ways, that don't conform to his idea of the perfect survival game are all obviously immature pricks

 

[Crni Vuk]

thats because you misunderstood him. Because you actually want from HIM to play the game how YOU want it to be played.

Thing is, if the game play does not support this kind of behavior people will go for what is the most efficient way to play. This has nothing to do with being mature or not.

Its because it is a game. And it sure is not fun losing the progress of several days. So people will naturally avoid it the more equipment they have.

 

[gumbarrel]

thats because you misunderstood him. Because you actually want from HIM to play the game how YOU want it to be played.

I don't want him to do anything. This is about how the game works right now and why people act the way they act.

Thing is, if the game play does not support this kind of behavior people will go for what is the most efficient way to play. This has nothing to do with being mature or not.

This is what i've been saying this entire time.

 

[Crni Vuk]

eh my bad ... I confused you with the other poster. No clue why. Should really check the names more often ...

 

[Radman]

Lexx is right. Just accept his logic.

No, He isnt...

As i've already pointed out (an argument that has been ignored) mature online RP communities manage fine with total and open freedom.

The problem is with a generation of gamers that arent used to not being hand held and led through games.

Seems like one or two people on here fall into that bracket of gamer.

 

[Crni Vuk]

so ... you are really saying that Lexx is such a player and that the problem is not with the fact that the gameplay supports shoot-first-ask-questions-later scenarios?

Again. This has nothing to do if the players are mature or not.