Democracy sucks ass.

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by DirtyDreamDesigner, May 15, 2005.

  1. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Actually, the law states Germany has elections, elections mean the constituency elects the body, this election is the "instruction". By choosing certain parties you're choosing their program, electing a certain path for the coming few years.

    It's the only practical system

    Federal as in federal direct democracy?

    If so, how do you think all these people could be kept informed on all relevant issues?

    How do you think people would have time for so many referenda?

    How would you finance it?

    You need to think things through a bit
     
  2. Quaid

    Quaid Give dese people air!!

    120
    May 10, 2005
    Quick note on the 'American System':

    There are three branches of government: The Executive, The Legislative, and the Judicial.

    The Legislative is the one you're referring to when you mention the Senate.

    (the below was copied and pasted from this site since it is easier than typing it all out)
    __________________________________________
    "There are 100 senators in the Senate, two from each state. Senators are elected by their states and serve six-year terms. The Vice President of the U.S. is considered the head of the Senate, but does not vote in the Senate unless there is a tie. The Senate approves nominations made by the President to the Cabinet, the Supreme Court, federal courts and other posts. The Senate must ratify all treaties by a two-thirds vote.

    There are 435 representatives in the House of Representatives. The number of representatives each state gets is based on its population. For example, California has many more representatives than Rhode Island. When Census figures determine that the population of a state has changed significantly, the number of representatives in that state may shift proportionately. Representatives are elected by their states and serve two-year terms. The Speaker of the House, elected by the representatives, is considered the head of the House.

    Both parties in the Senate and the House of Representatives elect leaders. The leader of the party that controls the house is called the majority leader. The other party leader is called the minority leader."
    __________________________________________

    Therefore, only the senate has equal representation for each state regardless of the population of each state. The House of Representatives is on the other end of the spectrum, allowing proportional representation based on population of each state.
     
  3. Ratty Sr.

    Ratty Sr. Ratty, except old Moderator Orderite

    Apr 23, 2003


    You do realize that tripartition of power is such a basic and commonly known concept that pointing it out here is akin to explaining principles of operating a light switch to an electric engineer?
     
  4. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Yes and no. The problem with Congress is that it has a limited number of seats and as such will never be able to have the same representation-per-number per state. Look at it this way:

    Say you have 100 seats and 10000 people, divided over 4 states by 3910, 4090, 1000 and 1000.

    Directly elected representation means each 100 people vote in 1 seat.

    Congress system means you have 100 seats, which you could divide as such: 39 for state A, 41 for state B and 10 each for C and D. This means that State A is screwed out of 10 votes while state B gains 10 votes. Not by actually gaining voting power in total, but by increasing the voting power of constituents, which is 1 vote=less than one person for A and 1 vote=more than one person for B

    This isn't that significant on the small scale, but it becomes very significant on a scale like the US

    Even worse, because not all people vote a state that works to get its people interested in democracy and has more people that care about democracy and vote does not gain more seats. Seats are divided by populace, not by voting, just like in the EU. I would hardly call that just
     
  5. Silencer

    Silencer Night Watchman Staff Member Admin

    Nov 7, 2003
    In Soviet Russia, people apply to you!

    Especially in the subway.
     
  6. Quaid

    Quaid Give dese people air!!

    120
    May 10, 2005
    Lets see - I notice there are a number of people on these boards from other countries, and they may or may not know how the American system of government works - since many countries (including the US) put the most effort into teaching their own form of government.

    Also, the statement I quoted implied that the 'American system' only had the Senate which has two seats for every state regardless of population, without mentioning that there is also a House of Representatives that has seats proportional to the state populations (which I've already stated). Perhaps he didn't mean it this way, but I decided to mention it for clarification.

    Considering my post is both factual and on topic, I'm not sure why you give a fuck Mr. Mod?
     
  7. the_move

    the_move First time out of the vault

    60
    May 16, 2005
    Elections do not give instructions, as the political do not
    keep the promises made in their "program". They forget about
    it as soon as they have "claimed the power". Maybe they even
    get lucky and get re-elected next time, since there are not much alternatives as mentioned earlier.
    Sorry but in Germany elections do not instruct. In no way!
    I have lived here for 29 years now. Believe me, I know
    how things run here. And they do not run like they should do.
    In fact they do not run at all.
     
  8. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    Meh, you're just upset because of Schröder-head. Don't worry, it'll pass
     
  9. the_move

    the_move First time out of the vault

    60
    May 16, 2005
    Nah, it wasn´t Schroeder all the way. Kohl was before and Schmidt
    even before that one, and they all were crap.
     
  10. Brother None

    Brother None This ghoul has seen it all
    Orderite

    Apr 3, 2003
    It might help your viewpoint if you actually explained how your alternative could possibly work
     
  11. the_move

    the_move First time out of the vault

    60
    May 16, 2005
    Well with "only" 80 million people instead of 300 million things
    might be a little easier. Altough I am certain, that it will still
    cause a huge problem. Therefor it should be done step by step.
    A good and helpful step for Germany would be to adapt
    the swiss handling of democracy at first, since this one is
    nearer to direct democracy as our. They have referendums, but
    they also have a parliament. Also - otherwise to our parliament -
    this one is bound to instructions AFAIK.