Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

The most ridicolous thing in this game to my eyes yet is still that interface. Who in their right mind would think such a shitty "apple" interface would cool and fitting to a fantasy setting? Not even mentioning it's lifeless, boring and even clunkier than the one in previous games.

Ilosar said:
Also, action-adventure is a bit too harsh imo. The game still has skills and stats (but no attributes) being an integral part of character developpement. It's more like a light RPG with free-roaming to me. and it certainly seems to work out just fine for Beth, Skyrim sells more than Modern Warfare 3 on Steam.
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You can have thousands of stats and numbers in a game, it's still not an rpg when those stats don't actually do anything worthwile in the game.
 
yes interace is probably the worst. Cant see those argonians ever mixing with the tiger-races. But the furries will go nuts over it I am sure ;)

Ahem. Anyway. Cant say the visuals look that impressive. Better then Oblivion. But after such a long time that was kinda expected.

What really kills the game for me is "infinite" Dragons. Yes. You thought cliff-racers in Morrowind have been annoying ? Just wait for their bigger brothers suddenly appearing around every corner. Oh look at that another *yawn* frost dragon to get his soul. And I am sure those will be all monsters without brains so no talking dragons which *gasp* might be friendly. Like those Oblivion gates which had no real purpose either. Hope they at least care about it enough this time to give you at least REALLY a feeling this is some kind of attack or invasion not like in Oblivion where those gates poped up and the NPCs acted like it was the usual every day shit.

Ilosar said:
Also, action-adventure is a bit too harsh imo. The game still has skills and stats (but no attributes) being an integral part of character developpement. It's more like a light RPG with free-roaming to me. and it certainly seems to work out just fine for Beth, Skyrim sells more than Modern Warfare 3 on Steam.
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The Codexians invented the "Hiking simulator" for Oblivion/Skyrim. And I think yeah that describes it the best way. Because seriously. There is (probably) not much more you can do with it. Walking around (hiking) on mountains and killing random creatures.
 
While the animations are still stiff I can't help but think we're being over critical with them, at least compared to other games, in part due to how bad the previous games were rather than letting the game stand on it's own merits in a slightly wonky way.
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I find that some are overly critical of Bethesda in general, especially here and on the Codex. While they most definitely are not my favourite developpers, I still think they do decent games that can be very enjoyable at times. Of course, as Sea pointed out, their inability to fix even basic stuff in between their games gates on me too, that's why Skyrim is not a 60$ purchase (on PC to boot, greedy bastards) for me neither. As RPGs, their games are about on par with Dragon Age 2. As sandboxes, they manage but cannot beat Rockstar games or stuff like Just Cause 2. Unless they vastly improved their world-building and choice-consequence model, they will always remain second-class in those aspects to me.
 
You know what, I actually sort of enjoy the "hiking sim" aspect of Morrowind and Oblivion. Truth be told, whenever I start them up, I just go into the console and level up all my stats just so I can just go and run around (and before you go and call me out as a munchkin, I get my challenge fix from games like DCS: A-10C, thank you very much).

I think a bunch of people might have a better opinion of TES if they started looking at the games more as toys than games (toy in the sense of all the powerful options at your disposal with the console and editor), which would be sort of the same dichotomy I use with ArmA.
 
agiel7 said:
You know what, I actually sort of enjoy the "hiking sim" aspect of Morrowind and Oblivion. Truth be told, whenever I start them up, I just go into the console and level up all my stats just so I can just go and run around (and before you go and call me out as a munchkin, I get my challenge fix from games like DCS: A-10C, thank you very much).

I think a bunch of people might have a better opinion of TES if they started looking at the games more as toys than games (toy in the sense of all the powerful options at your disposal with the console and editor), which would be sort of the same dichotomy I use with ArmA.
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EDIT: Actually, no, I don't even know what to respond to this post. :|
 
All I'm saying is if you're one of those people who are that put off by the mechanics and balance, you can probably breathe a little life into it by abusing certain things.

And hell, for some people it's worth bypassing the game part some mediocre designer made just to see something cool the artists made.
 
guys defending Oblivion and Bethesda ...

Do you people even enjoy "RPGs" ?

Hey no one ever argued that some can have fun with Oblivion or Bethesda games in general. But please. don't shit on us of which actually think those games are bad RPGs. You know if Oblivion would be sold as "hiking simulation" or something like that no one here would be complaining because he would have no right to do so. But those games are sold as "the RPG of the century". So its just natural that a game by Bethesda will have to be judged that way. And even if you love their games but you can still be critical enough to see that those are just bad RPGs. I mean hell. Already GTA is a better game when it comes to the Sandbox feeling.
 
Well, by this thread I can tell that the Elder Scrolls games are at least good for folks who want to vent their frustration out.
 
TBH, I can't play any bethesda developed game without loads of mods/plugins(Maybe except Buggerfall) :-x I just had to use them even in Morrowind.
Mods were the only thing that kept me to any of those games. For real, maybe The Elder Scrolls world is pretty much different than most fantasy universes but still - just look at Oblivion. What the heck was that shit. Maybe few Dark Brotherhood quests were ok, but most of the things was like "Wow, even I can write better stuff using Teletubbies setting as a base". But being totally serious: It wasn't mature at all. Maybe some 12-14yo found it entertaining and nicely written. Morrowind wasn't bad, but left much to be desired.
Skyrim? Well, that leaked footage is from X-Box, so I won't judge graphics and stuff just yet. Other things looks pretty much the same or just a little enhanced. Gotta see this shit on my rig to give final judgement.
 
an 'appropriate' response would probably get your post vatted
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Yes, burn the heretic, he has a different opinion and therefore is obviously a sub-human scum unworthy or living, let alone speaking in the presence of such geniuses.

Get real guys.
 
Yes, burn the heretic, he has a different opinion and therefore is obviously a sub-human scum unworthy or living, let alone speaking in the presence of such geniuses.

Get real guys.
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They were commenting more on the "I think a bunch of people might have a better opinion of TES if they started looking at the games more as toys than games" then anything else.
 
Ilosar said:
I find that some are overly critical of Bethesda in general, especially here and on the Codex. While they most definitely are not my favourite developpers, I still think they do decent games that can be very enjoyable at times.
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Overly critical!? This is the upcoming game from Bethesda, you know the developer that brought us masterpieces such as Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

This game looks like it's going to be even dumber and even less of an RPG than F3 or Oblivion. It will most likely still receive accolades like "GOTY" and "RPG of the Year" resulting in the further decline of this once great genre.

SmartCheetah said:
Well, that leaked footage is from X-Box, so I won't judge graphics and stuff just yet.
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There will be nothing fundamentally different on PC. Just a higher resolution and some extra graphical effects (AFAIK it still uses only DX9).
 
SmartCheetah said:
(Maybe except Buggerfall)
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Ah yes, Buggerfall. Back in the days when the game engine would occasionally forget to add an exit to a procedurally generated dungeon, trapping your character in there forever. Then there were the monsters you were supposed to that spawned inside a wall, rendering a quest impossible to complete.
 
I think I'm going to have to agree with Ilosar here. first of all I can state for the record that I'm certainly not a huge Bethesda fan. the last good game they released was in my opinion Morrowind. that said, there is almost a fanatical hatred towards their games that I just don't understand. it gives me vibes of elitism and I think it's pretty tasteless to be honest. if you don't enjoy their games, then don't play them. by now we know that their games are pretty simple sandbox adventures with little depth. they are thoroughly enjoyed by a lot of people for different reasons and I think that's perfectly fine. who are you to judge what other people enjoy in a video/computer game?

so now someone cries "but it's heresy to call it an RPG!". well, so what? genres are stupid. always were, always will be. there are still rpg's with depth out there. and these awards don't mean shit. if Beth's games were in a different category, that still would not affect the state of modern rpg's in any way. so a game like The Witcher might've won RPG of The Year instead - and then what? sale number would've been roughly the same, and you would've liked or disliked the game just as much. I like to compare it to music and how misleading music genres can be these days. I like rock and metal but I depsise most of what's called rock and metal these days. but guess what, I don't bother with the bad parts and enjoy the good parts instead.

we're all sad about the current lack of good crpg's but all this shit-flinging on Bethesda and their fans isn't exactly doing anything. like I said, we know what we get from them and if you still expect deep complex rpg's and still get disappointed then maybe you should simply get out more.
 
I don't sense a strong power in your gem my friend. Are you sure it contains enough hatred ?

Maybe you need to recharge it. I recommend playing some Fallout 3 :D
 
aenemic said:
I think I'm going to have to agree with Ilosar here. first of all I can state for the record that I'm certainly not a huge Bethesda fan. the last good game they released was in my opinion Morrowind. that said, there is almost a fanatical hatred towards their games that I just don't understand. it gives me vibes of elitism and I think it's pretty tasteless to be honest. if you don't enjoy their games, then don't play them. by now we know that their games are pretty simple sandbox adventures with little depth. they are thoroughly enjoyed by a lot of people for different reasons and I think that's perfectly fine. who are you to judge what other people enjoy in a video/computer game?

so now someone cries "but it's heresy to call it an RPG!". well, so what? genres are stupid. always were, always will be. there are still rpg's with depth out there. and these awards don't mean shit. if Beth's games were in a different category, that still would not affect the state of modern rpg's in any way. so a game like The Witcher might've won RPG of The Year instead - and then what? sale number would've been roughly the same, and you would've liked or disliked the game just as much. I like to compare it to music and how misleading music genres can be these days. I like rock and metal but I depsise most of what's called rock and metal these days. but guess what, I don't bother with the bad parts and enjoy the good parts instead.

we're all sad about the current lack of good crpg's but all this shit-flinging on Bethesda and their fans isn't exactly doing anything. like I said, we know what we get from them and if you still expect deep complex rpg's and still get disappointed then maybe you should simply get out more.
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The problem is not that these games are horrible, it is that many people think that Skyrim/Oblivion etc. are the second comings of Jesus Christ personalized in an RPG, while they are no RPGs. More and more people get caught in this thinking eventually erradicating any chance for "real" rpg to be any sucessfull if they don't follow the design choices of the so called "RPG" that is Skyrim etc. That is the fucking problem, not what genre it is. If they wouldn't hype their games so much as "awesome and deep RPG" no one here would give a single fuck, except maybe for how future Fallout titles will look (Fallout is dead anyway).
 
Oh God. Why couldn't I have seen the leaked footage before I bought this game on Steam? The animations seemed so refined, flowing, natural and seemless in the E3 demonstration; the voice acting seemed great in the trailers and the gameplay clips, and the graphics looked pretty good in the screenshots.

But this. This is...Oh fuck you Bethesda.
 
The problem is not that these games are horrible, it is that many people think that Skyrim/Oblivion etc. are the second comings of Jesus Christ personalized in an RPG, while they are no RPGs. More and more people get caught in this thinking eventually erradicating any chance for "real" rpg to be any sucessfull if they don't follow the design choices of the so called "RPG" that is Skyrim etc. That is the fucking problem, not what genre it is. If they wouldn't hype their games so much as "awesome and deep RPG" no one here would give a single fuck, except maybe for how future Fallout titles will look (Fallout is dead anyway).
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And exactly how are they not RPGs? Forgive me, but I have yet to see a single, all-encompassing definition of what an RPG actually is. If we go by the basic definition where you, well, assume a role, then The Elder Scrolls fit the bill; you choose race, skills, which faction you want to belong to, then act according to that role, or hell just go nuts if you want to. If you mean stats, well they are much less complex than in, say ADnD, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. If you mean choice and consequence solely, yeah I guess the series has a hard time with this.

But to say that the series makes other styles of RPGs irrelevant is shaky at best to me. The Witcher is very succesfull. When they aren't being unreasonably pushed, Bioware can still make some decent stuff. Obsidian exists and makes quality RPGs for the most part. And let's not get into JRPGs which have some very good games. The genre is anything but dead, and doesn't blindly follow the footsteps of Bethesda-style games.

If the marketing-talk is the problem, yeah I can sympathize with that a bit. Still, it's not worst than BiowEAre's turn towards action games in their own marketing, or Battlefield 3's cringe-worthy attempts to take on Call of Duty (EA marketing in general is pretty awful to me). Marketing is just that, marketing, never take it at face value. If it sells more copies, it does it's job. Speaking of which...

Oh God. Why couldn't I have seen the leaked footage before I bought this game on Steam? The animations seemed so refined, flowing, natural and seemless in the E3 demonstration; the voice acting seemed great in the trailers and the gameplay clips, and the graphics looked pretty good in the screenshots.

But this. This is...Oh fuck you Bethesda.
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I learned this after Dragon Age 2 myself; never, ever, pre-order a game. You are just asking for dissapointment.
 
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