Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Discussion in 'General Gaming and Hardware Forum' started by Korin, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. agiel7

    agiel7 First time out of the vault

    94
    Oct 3, 2010
    You know what, I actually sort of enjoy the "hiking sim" aspect of Morrowind and Oblivion. Truth be told, whenever I start them up, I just go into the console and level up all my stats just so I can just go and run around (and before you go and call me out as a munchkin, I get my challenge fix from games like DCS: A-10C, thank you very much).

    I think a bunch of people might have a better opinion of TES if they started looking at the games more as toys than games (toy in the sense of all the powerful options at your disposal with the console and editor), which would be sort of the same dichotomy I use with ArmA.
     
  2. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    EDIT: Actually, no, I don't even know what to respond to this post. :|
     
  3. x'il

    x'il Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    980
    Mar 3, 2009
    ^ :lol: an 'appropriate' response would probably get your post vatted :lol:
     
  4. agiel7

    agiel7 First time out of the vault

    94
    Oct 3, 2010
    All I'm saying is if you're one of those people who are that put off by the mechanics and balance, you can probably breathe a little life into it by abusing certain things.

    And hell, for some people it's worth bypassing the game part some mediocre designer made just to see something cool the artists made.
     
  5. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    guys defending Oblivion and Bethesda ...

    Do you people even enjoy "RPGs" ?

    Hey no one ever argued that some can have fun with Oblivion or Bethesda games in general. But please. don't shit on us of which actually think those games are bad RPGs. You know if Oblivion would be sold as "hiking simulation" or something like that no one here would be complaining because he would have no right to do so. But those games are sold as "the RPG of the century". So its just natural that a game by Bethesda will have to be judged that way. And even if you love their games but you can still be critical enough to see that those are just bad RPGs. I mean hell. Already GTA is a better game when it comes to the Sandbox feeling.
     
  6. Ravager69

    Ravager69 Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Well, by this thread I can tell that the Elder Scrolls games are at least good for folks who want to vent their frustration out.
     
  7. SmartCheetah

    SmartCheetah It Wandered In From the Wastes

    182
    Feb 23, 2009
    TBH, I can't play any bethesda developed game without loads of mods/plugins(Maybe except Buggerfall) :-x I just had to use them even in Morrowind.
    Mods were the only thing that kept me to any of those games. For real, maybe The Elder Scrolls world is pretty much different than most fantasy universes but still - just look at Oblivion. What the heck was that shit. Maybe few Dark Brotherhood quests were ok, but most of the things was like "Wow, even I can write better stuff using Teletubbies setting as a base". But being totally serious: It wasn't mature at all. Maybe some 12-14yo found it entertaining and nicely written. Morrowind wasn't bad, but left much to be desired.
    Skyrim? Well, that leaked footage is from X-Box, so I won't judge graphics and stuff just yet. Other things looks pretty much the same or just a little enhanced. Gotta see this shit on my rig to give final judgement.
     
  8. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    Yes, burn the heretic, he has a different opinion and therefore is obviously a sub-human scum unworthy or living, let alone speaking in the presence of such geniuses.

    Get real guys.
     
  9. Khan FurSainty

    Khan FurSainty Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    332
    Apr 23, 2009
    They were commenting more on the "I think a bunch of people might have a better opinion of TES if they started looking at the games more as toys than games" then anything else.
     
  10. PainlessDocM

    PainlessDocM Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Feb 5, 2010
    Overly critical!? This is the upcoming game from Bethesda, you know the developer that brought us masterpieces such as Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

    This game looks like it's going to be even dumber and even less of an RPG than F3 or Oblivion. It will most likely still receive accolades like "GOTY" and "RPG of the Year" resulting in the further decline of this once great genre.

    There will be nothing fundamentally different on PC. Just a higher resolution and some extra graphical effects (AFAIK it still uses only DX9).
     
  11. agiel7

    agiel7 First time out of the vault

    94
    Oct 3, 2010
    Ah yes, Buggerfall. Back in the days when the game engine would occasionally forget to add an exit to a procedurally generated dungeon, trapping your character in there forever. Then there were the monsters you were supposed to that spawned inside a wall, rendering a quest impossible to complete.
     
  12. aenemic

    aenemic Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!

    Jun 4, 2008
    I think I'm going to have to agree with Ilosar here. first of all I can state for the record that I'm certainly not a huge Bethesda fan. the last good game they released was in my opinion Morrowind. that said, there is almost a fanatical hatred towards their games that I just don't understand. it gives me vibes of elitism and I think it's pretty tasteless to be honest. if you don't enjoy their games, then don't play them. by now we know that their games are pretty simple sandbox adventures with little depth. they are thoroughly enjoyed by a lot of people for different reasons and I think that's perfectly fine. who are you to judge what other people enjoy in a video/computer game?

    so now someone cries "but it's heresy to call it an RPG!". well, so what? genres are stupid. always were, always will be. there are still rpg's with depth out there. and these awards don't mean shit. if Beth's games were in a different category, that still would not affect the state of modern rpg's in any way. so a game like The Witcher might've won RPG of The Year instead - and then what? sale number would've been roughly the same, and you would've liked or disliked the game just as much. I like to compare it to music and how misleading music genres can be these days. I like rock and metal but I depsise most of what's called rock and metal these days. but guess what, I don't bother with the bad parts and enjoy the good parts instead.

    we're all sad about the current lack of good crpg's but all this shit-flinging on Bethesda and their fans isn't exactly doing anything. like I said, we know what we get from them and if you still expect deep complex rpg's and still get disappointed then maybe you should simply get out more.
     
  13. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    I don't sense a strong power in your gem my friend. Are you sure it contains enough hatred ?

    Maybe you need to recharge it. I recommend playing some Fallout 3 :D
     
  14. Surf Solar

    Surf Solar So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Aug 20, 2009
    The problem is not that these games are horrible, it is that many people think that Skyrim/Oblivion etc. are the second comings of Jesus Christ personalized in an RPG, while they are no RPGs. More and more people get caught in this thinking eventually erradicating any chance for "real" rpg to be any sucessfull if they don't follow the design choices of the so called "RPG" that is Skyrim etc. That is the fucking problem, not what genre it is. If they wouldn't hype their games so much as "awesome and deep RPG" no one here would give a single fuck, except maybe for how future Fallout titles will look (Fallout is dead anyway).
     
  15. Threepwood

    Threepwood Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    365
    Nov 4, 2010
    Oh God. Why couldn't I have seen the leaked footage before I bought this game on Steam? The animations seemed so refined, flowing, natural and seemless in the E3 demonstration; the voice acting seemed great in the trailers and the gameplay clips, and the graphics looked pretty good in the screenshots.

    But this. This is...Oh fuck you Bethesda.
     
  16. Ilosar

    Ilosar Vault Fossil

    Apr 20, 2010
    And exactly how are they not RPGs? Forgive me, but I have yet to see a single, all-encompassing definition of what an RPG actually is. If we go by the basic definition where you, well, assume a role, then The Elder Scrolls fit the bill; you choose race, skills, which faction you want to belong to, then act according to that role, or hell just go nuts if you want to. If you mean stats, well they are much less complex than in, say ADnD, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. If you mean choice and consequence solely, yeah I guess the series has a hard time with this.

    But to say that the series makes other styles of RPGs irrelevant is shaky at best to me. The Witcher is very succesfull. When they aren't being unreasonably pushed, Bioware can still make some decent stuff. Obsidian exists and makes quality RPGs for the most part. And let's not get into JRPGs which have some very good games. The genre is anything but dead, and doesn't blindly follow the footsteps of Bethesda-style games.

    If the marketing-talk is the problem, yeah I can sympathize with that a bit. Still, it's not worst than BiowEAre's turn towards action games in their own marketing, or Battlefield 3's cringe-worthy attempts to take on Call of Duty (EA marketing in general is pretty awful to me). Marketing is just that, marketing, never take it at face value. If it sells more copies, it does it's job. Speaking of which...

    I learned this after Dragon Age 2 myself; never, ever, pre-order a game. You are just asking for dissapointment.
     
  17. agiel7

    agiel7 First time out of the vault

    94
    Oct 3, 2010
    From what I see on, say, a gaming forum completely independent of Bethesda's (I'm not going to use their forums as an example, obv), I've never seen anyone go out and say something to that effect. They may say they like Oblivion with the requisite "...but," followed by criticisms for the shitty animations, how you could count the number of voice actors working on the game with one hand, the uneven and not-even-playtested gameplay, the hordes of bugs, and so forth...

    But I think for a lot of people, the main source of joy doesn't come from the combat and quest design in games like Morrowind, but seeing places like Ald'ruhn and Silt Striders in the distance(something that by my admission, was a department Oblivion was comparably lacking in).
     
  18. sea

    sea Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 5, 2009
    I wholeheartedly disagree with the supposition that Bethesda games aren't RPGs, as well as that Skyrim isn't an RPG. They're actually one of the few games which still maintains any sort of universal ruleset within a 3D environment, gives you the tools to complete quests in a variety of ways expressed in the game mechanics themselves, and rewards you for sticking to your path with specialized quests that fit your character archetype (at least in theory, not so much in practice).

    Now, are they good RPGs? Not really, but only because Bethesda is so afraid to limit content from players and to provide a challenging game. The basic setup is one of the most promising and ambitious of any RPG, and there are very few which even begin to approach what Bethesda aim to accomplish. If Skyrim had good writing and voice acting, a good engine and was made by a developer who wasn't developing the game for the drooling masses, it'd basically be a model for the best RPG ever.
     
  19. Crni Vuk

    Crni Vuk M4A3 Oldfag oTO Orderite

    Nov 25, 2008
    yes but skills or the "frame" of it does not make everthing an RPG.

    What exactly makes Oblivion for example an RPG ? That it has "NPCs" ?

    Actually that is my opinion but I think Oblivion is much closer to a first person shooter then some RPG. Albeit it is not so much a mediocre RPG then a very very bad shooter. How so ? Well the story for it self shows no real progression. There is no interaction with the world or the NPCs. Some say it is some kind of adventure game and yeah that probably comes quite close as well. Those few quests they throw around and dialogues ... seriously Metal gear solid already contains 10 times more spoken dialogues.

    I know the term "RPG" is meaningless today. But if we call Oblivion some RPG then we can call everything an RPG as you role play a marine in doom. People should not forget where RPGs are coming from though. And here Oblivion has no conection with.

    On the other side. How will things be with Skyrim ? No clue. But from what I have seen so far I have my doubts that it will be very far away from Oblivion.

    Of course that is just my opinion. I gave up on the idea that we will get decent RPGs on the PC a long time ago anyway. Not when you consider how many truly creative people and companies have gone out of buisness. Making money was always the target. But those people at least tried to stay true (most of the time) to their gameplay. I mean it is a difference if I make some RPG "for everyone" or if I know that I am making a niche-title. And RPGs have never been a market as huge like shooters for example.

    It is very very sad to see the diversty in gaming going down the toilet quite fast where it seems everything has to contain some kind of "action" or "fast gameplay" - at least regarding the western market. When was the last time a decent Sim City was released ? Or another game like Command & Conquer 2 or 3 ? Games like Theme Hospital or Jagged Alliance ? Or if you want Planescape Tourment or Arcanum ? THe market was much smaller then today but it allowed for a much bigger diversity compared to today where a game has to sell a minimum of 3 Million copies to be profitable. In the past Diablo 2 sold 1 million copies and that was a huge success where Fallout 2 has maybe sold 200 000 or 300 000 copies and that was seen as big success as well. But what can you expect from companies which literaly spend 100 million of dollars on MARKETING (!) alone while the production of the game does maybe cost only a few millions.
     
  20. TorontoReign

    TorontoReign Level 27 Wizard Staff Member Moderator

    Apr 1, 2005
    To be honest the series has lost many RPG mechanics since Morrowind , and has continued to lose them until eventually Bethesda will have turned it into an Adventure game. Everyone keeps bragging about 300+ hours of gameplay, but no one thinks about how good the gameplay will be. The game will be good, but will be forgotten after the next sequel and it's minor improvements. Sorry, but I am a bit cynical.