F2: Combat Overhaul Mod 2.0

@Minigun Jim
You're absolutely right, I avoid writing design descriptions like the plague. I will see what I can do. *suddenly gets shooting pain behind eyes* :D

EDIT:
Updated the first post as suggested, please let me know if you want more.

Also I have not had a chance to extensively test everything in my mod. I really need help with this.

Concerns:
The Power Fist and Mega Power Fist may not be affective against powered armor.

Some Big Gun burst weapons may not be affective against powered armor. However, this may be due to how the engine deals with burst weapons specifically. I'm trying to investigate but would like help there too.
 
Version 2.0 (Restoration Project compatible version) is just about complete. Just waiting on killap to adjust the vendor scripts for me (no rush killap!).

This version has small changes:
Power Fist will have Enhanced Knockout since it may not be affective against powered armor.
Mega Power Fist has Weapon Penetrate back to ensure it is affective against powered armor.
The Dual Minigun turret now should come loaded with AP ammo to have affect against Horigan.
Pay attention to dog type party npcs as I tried to improve them a little.

All the other new items in RP added by killap were looked at and tweaked to be inline with this mod where and when necessary.

The Environmental Armor most notiably was tweaked to fall inline somewhere between Combat Armor and Power Armor. (it a special one of kind armor and remains as such)

The first post will be updated when 2.0 is ready to be downloaded.
 
So far good work.

I've been doing a play through using your adjustments, here are my comments/suggestions:
1. Laser/Plasma still suck - I boosted both energy and Small to 150% in game tried taking on Navarro with all the deadly perks/a well-made character and it is still a HUGE disadvantage using the turbo plasma rifle / pulse rifle / laser gatling / laser rifle vs. the gauss pistol/rifle (I left big guns out of the comparison because those are in a league of their own..).

My suggestion for Laser/Plasma buffing: Make turbo plasma cost 1 less AP and boost micro fusion cells from AC: 0 / DR: 0 to -25/-25 or something...at the very least give a 2/1 damage mod.

2. Improve the power of most pistols in general - I think universally they should cost 1 less AP than a rifle - because it only uses one hand and probably weighs about half of what the average rifle would weigh.

Anyways, Great Job & Thanks for making.
 
@theflyingcow
Thanks for the feedback!

Let me ask a couple of questions:
At what point are you in the game?
What type of armor are your enemies wearing?

Some things to consider as well:
Laser weapons were never meant to uber weapons, and the more advanced armor gets the better at repelling energy weapons over projectile weapons they become.

The Turbo Plasma Rifle is already one less AP cost than the normal Plasma Rifle, though I might consider making the TPR a double shot burst. This is just a quick thought .

Giving the Cell ammo any boost would be wrong because not being a projectile type ammo, it's solely up to the weapon to determine what comes from it's energy.

Your pistol suggestion would unbalance the game for two reasons; one, pistols are found early and those who have characters with high AP may have too much of an advantage early in the game, two, most pistols should not be able to do damage to advanced type armor.
 
Glovz said:
The Turbo Plasma Rifle is already one less AP cost than the normal Plasma Rifle, though I might consider making the TPR a double shot burst. This is just a quick thought .
Click to expand...

Quick and dirty, because the TPR does actually not cost less AP to fire than its regular counterpart, it only does more damage at an increased range. Also, giving it a burst function would probably mess up/remove its green fireball projectile. It's a wicked weapon against anything except the most advanced armor in the game, what are you complaining about?! (not you glovz, the other guy)

Glovz, what is the hex value for the enhanced knockout perk?
 
Magnus said:
Glovz, what is the hex value for the enhanced knockout perk?
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Sorry Magnus I don't know the hex value for the perk, I use a tool Cubik2k has made for editing item proto files and/or the mapper.
 
Glovz said:
Magnus said:
Glovz, what is the hex value for the enhanced knockout perk?
Click to expand...
Sorry Magnus I don't know the hex value for the perk, I use a tool Cubik2k has made for editing item proto files and/or the mapper.
Click to expand...

Could you send me the proto file for the edited weapon (power fist i assume) so I can look for myself? Use the mail in my profile. I'm not sure what the perk does exactly, though.
 
First post updated!

F2: Combat Overhaul Mod 2.0 (compatible with killap's RP) --- http://www.mediafire.com/?m5zsdvatpuj

F2: Combat Overhaul Mod 1.3 (compatible with killap's UP) --- http://www.mediafire.com/?zv7yj9xmxya

New versions of the mod are up! Version 2.0 is RP compatiable!

I'm still investigating how burst shots get calculated exactly, so there still may be updates to come.

EDIT:
Magnus I mailed you the pro file for the Power Fist with the Weapon Enhanced Knockout perk.
 
@General Felipe
Thanks for the compliment!

It's not too different, same overall goals, but:
1- I set different rules for myself (seen in the first post)
2- I mod the damage calculation in the engine to suit my needs
3- I do not change the proto numbers as Magnus does to change where an item can be found or how frequent/unique it is

I have thought about trying the 3 option but as Magnus has found it is difficult to find the right balance if at all without changing maps or scripts. Neither Magnus or myself want to change maps or scripts for compatibility reasons.

My mod only includes two script changes (with killaps help) and that is only to have the new shotgun slugs added to vendors.

Your post is why I PM'ed you. I didn't want to respond in Magnus' thread because I'm not in competition with him and don't want to be seen that way. In fact Magnus and I have discussed this previously.
 
Cool !

Thanks for the explanation !

Hey the version 2.0 is the most recent update?

Ive already download it.

Say would you like to take a look on my mod, perhaps?

Its a mixture of my mod and Magnus'one.

The item guns, ammo proto alteration Ive done... I take'em out...

Just remains misc alterations. Like a deck of magi... err tragic cards (hehehehe... I used to like this game some years ago.) that now weights 0 pounds.

And theres one map for tests so... and save game for the test.

Thx !

Have a good day.
 
Some things to consider as well:
Laser weapons were never meant to uber weapons, and the more advanced armor gets the better at repelling energy weapons over projectile weapons they become.
Click to expand...

I would slightly disagree here. The idea of making new weapons is that they are stronger and inflict more damage. What is the point of making new weapons if they are weaker then the old ones?

Also energy weapons are obtained late in the game, as late as new Reno and only from Salvatore's room. Imagine the average player who has tagged only energy weapons from the combat arts. Up to now he has struggled to stay alive, ran away from random encounters and done everything to get his hands on the beloved lightbringer. Finally he gets it... and realise the guy that has been happily shooting since the pipe rifle in Klamath still does more damage then him. It just does not seem fair. Energy weapons should do slightly more damage then normal firearms, 10 to 20%, because they are harder to find and not available from the start of the game.
 
@Azmodael
If the laser weapon damage potential were increased then plasma weapons would become less significant. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. It took me a long time to analyze the game for what I thought was intended but not fully achieved.

My changes are not that far off the original and actually should allow lasers to do more damage than originally.

Lasers are not the only energy weapons available and how you choose to allocate your skill points and tagging is up to you. Remember Fallout is an open RPG which means by your own choices you can make the game easier or harder.

Sorry for rambling but I have yet to hear an affect arguement for making lasers that much stronger and if I did let me ask what would you do with the rest of the weapons or ammo or armor? Changes to any one weapon or ammo or armor can throw things off balance, that's why I had to adjust everything.
 
My question - simply put - is:

Do laser weaponry does equal/compatible damage to small guns weaponry (gauss in particular)? You say that you increased it, but does this increase bring it to equal terms with the more popular small arms weapons?

Lasers are not the only energy weapons available and how you choose to allocate your skill points and tagging is up to you. Remember Fallout is an open RPG which means by your own choices you can make the game easier or harder.
Click to expand...

This is largely contradicting with your moto - "Brings back balance, brings back choice, brings back challenge, keeps the fun!" The idea behind game balance is to make all choices equally powerful and useful. I am fan of modern lazer weaponry, I played the original game with them where the only way to kill a power armor enemy was to aim for the eyes and wait for criticals that penetrate armor or instantly kill the critter. If lazer weaponry is inferior to small guns what balance are we talking about?

As for balancing the whole picture I am not talking about making them THAT much better. Just draw a comparison between the Lazer Pistol and the Desert eagle, between the plasma rifle and say the jackhammer and the turbo plasma with the gauss rifle. These weapons appear and are roughly at the same time in the game, therefore they should do compatible damage.

Also several pages ago Levar made a very valuable point about most melee weapons - in particular the sledge and the spear. The sharpened spear is stricktly better then the sledge and on top of that you get it for free... I've been in gaming (and Role Playing, both pen'n'paper and PC RPGs) for about 7 years now and I can tell you from experience that coolness is hardly a balance factor. Different people have different views on what is cool and what isn't. There are also lots maximalists - lots of people for whom coolness = effectiveness. For them the sledge isn't cool - not only does it do less damage, cost more AP to atk, but also it pushes the enemies around much more often forcing you to chase em wasting valuable AP. An elegant way to go around this is to consider the damage-per-ap cost. Since the sledge attacks slower it should hit harder. The same effect, but to a lesser extend applies to ranged weaponry. Maybe energy guns are harder to operate, costing 6 AP to shoot, but when that bolt of plasma hits you you are dead meat?
 
About the laser\plasma weapons - they should massacre everything not in metal and better armor. Consider this - a bullet shot from, for example, a FN FAL or Gauss Rifle may exit the body leaving a clean wound. Now if a guy wearing leather armor or no armor at all gets hit with a laser...considerable hole + burnt meat all over the wound, shock from the hit...in other words, guy is pretty much screwed. With plasma...well, it gets even worse. Dunno about pulse weaponry - I have no idea how it may affect flesh.

My point is - energy weapons should be better at lightly armored creatures than small guns and at least as good in penetrating stronger armors, if not better. And I don't understand why would firing an energetic pistol cost more AP's than firing a standard weapon - it has no recoil.
 
Because you might need to adjust the weapon power, range calculation and stuff for the shot to have maximum efficiency. Complex technology, eh :wink:
 
I have updated the google spreadsheet, you can now see an example of how much damage a laser pistol might do on average using my mod with the original damage calculation or using my modified damage calculation.

@Azmodael
If you use my mod I would suggest you try using the Magneto Laser Pistol late in the game. I think you can find it in SF, I gave it the Weapon Penetrate Perk. That perk (I think) removes an armors threshold value. If you understand how damage is calculated then you will know this a considerable bonus.
 
Ravager69 said:
About the laser\plasma weapons - they should massacre everything not in metal and better armor. Consider this - a bullet shot from, for example, a FN FAL or Gauss Rifle may exit the body leaving a clean wound. Now if a guy wearing leather armor or no armor at all gets hit with a laser...considerable hole + burnt meat all over the wound, shock from the hit...in other words, guy is pretty much screwed. With plasma...well, it gets even worse. Dunno about pulse weaponry - I have no idea how it may affect flesh.

My point is - energy weapons should be better at lightly armored creatures than small guns and at least as good in penetrating stronger armors, if not better. And I don't understand why would firing an energetic pistol cost more AP's than firing a standard weapon - it has no recoil.
Click to expand...


Does Pulse Weapons follow the nerves and burn everything inside?
 
@Azmodael
If you use my mod I would suggest you try using the Magneto Laser Pistol late in the game. I think you can find it in SF, I gave it the Weapon Penetrate Perk. That perk (I think) removes an armors threshold value. If you understand how damage is calculated then you will know this a considerable bonus.
Click to expand...

Well I am well aware what this is. However, what you don't understand is that if your weapon does 22-40 dmg (or whatever the exact figure was) and the armor has 90% !!! damage resistance then you do 10% of your damage to the target - 2-4 dmg
 
I compared the Sniper Rifle with the Bozar.
Both does the same damage to sulik wenn test it. Also it has "NO" Weapon perk. Atleast accuracy would be a good thing.
The only difference is it has burst fire.
Why not make single shot 5 AP?


Why Sulik not using the .223 pistol. Or has it something to do with RP? Not like it to give him a SMG :D
 
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