F2: Combat Overhaul Mod 2.0

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Glovz, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    @mousiehamster
    I wouldn't say that this mod makes the game harder, simply a little more challenging in that you have to pay a little more attention to what weapon and ammo you use against which critters.

    Examples using this mod:
    Not smart to use JHP ammo against Metal or better armor.

    Lasers are not great against Metal armor, but should still do ok damage against Combat armor.


    I know the spreadsheet might be difficult to read (I will try to clarify info on this mod with the next version), but if you look at the armor stats carefully you will start to understand which weapons and ammo will work better against which armor.
     
  2. Fury

    Fury First time out of the vault

    50
    Nov 2, 2008
    Think Jagged Alliance 2 :P

    You would not use the "blue ammo" clips later vs full armored guys :P

    One thing that realy bothered me about FA2 weapon stats was the fact that 7.62 ammo always was inferior to .223. In reality its quite the opposite! Well if you dont consider controlability with sustained fire and ammo weight...
     
  3. mousiehamster

    mousiehamster First time out of the vault

    6
    Oct 31, 2008
    So not much different from Restoration with the AP ammo mod?

    Altho i see that you've tweaked prices/weapon stats/availability too. I dunno, basically I wanna keep playing my current save without the game changing drastically tho for a new playthru i'll definitely try the mod.
     
  4. Fury

    Fury First time out of the vault

    50
    Nov 2, 2008
    Just wondering... does this mod fix the wrong ammo for the p90c or the weird damage and use of 7,62 vs .223?
     
  5. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Hey Glovz, a question:

    It's possible to alter the %to hit chance of body parts with Aimed Shots? If you want to make combat harder, you could make eyes harder to hit, so we would have more crippled limbs and less eye shots, making combat harder.
     
  6. Josan12

    Josan12 Vault Senior Citizen

    Oct 15, 2007
    Great idea. I'm sure most FO players would agree: eye shots are simply too easy to make. And for me, eye shots are probably the single biggest suspect in making combat too easy in the mid-late stages of the game. I mean jeeze - imagine how hard it would be to hit someone in the eyes in reality with a gun. Even at point-blank range i would say extremely difficult (your opponent wouldn't just be standing still waiting for it to happen.)

    But i bet it's hard-coded..... :( I would make eyes at least 50% harder to hit.
     
  7. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    Aimed percentages are definitely hard coded. Someone else would have to identify the portion of the code in the engine that covers this before it could be modified.

    Sorry to say that beyond me.
     
  8. zenbitz

    zenbitz First time out of the vault

    84
    Dec 18, 2008
    You do realize how silly this sounds (yes, I know it's true of the Hunting rifle in FO2). I mean, can't you just NOT look in the scope?

    I guess "game balance" but...

    That and why is .223 FMJ (aka 5.56mm ITRW) so much better than 7.62?

    And why do minigun, hunting rifle, sniper rifle and .223 pistols all do different damage with the same round?

    OK, I will shut up now.
     
  9. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    They are essentially the same gun, just one is for a sniper type player and the other is not.

    It's not really that much better, but I had to consider which weapons were using which ammo.

    Remember the Minigun is a burst weapon, it bursts 6 shots at a time each one doing between 6 to 24 damage. The Sniper Rifle has to have some advantage over the Hunting Rifle beyond range or what would be the point.

    Remember game balance is difficult and doesn't match up well at times to what might make sense or be true in the real world.

    I'm just trying to make things a little more interesting, balanced within the game, and hopefully fun. :D
     
  10. Claude Frollo

    Claude Frollo It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Jan 11, 2009
    Glovz, I appreciate your mod and use it along with Killap's RP. I see that you just made changes in armor and ranged weapons but why not touch melee weapons and unarmed ?

    I think these also need to be polished as well.

    I had some suggestions

    For melee weapons I haven't much:

    -One more type of spear (it will use the spear animation already so not so hard to manage) Better than sharpened spear should it be and it should be unique. I mean you should be able to find it just in one place or two.

    For unarmed skill and weapons:

    -The most important thing: I think a "disarming" option would make this skill great. I think even Fallout 3 did not make this. A rpg game with unarmed skill should have this ability in itself. It can be made by a perk , a perk which will make it possible for you to disarm opponents. You sneak to an opponent for example who holds a combat shotgun. If you hit him and can not knock down him. He will divide you in pieces with his shotgun, so why not disarm first ? It would be very sweet.
    I do not know how can you make it. But for example if you critically miss sometimes your weapon falls down. So maybe it could be possible to manage it that way ? Perhaps it is not so hard ? Don't know.
    It would possibly be so for example: If you pick this perk, you will have an option in your unarmed attack like aimed shot and it should take good amount of AP, 6 AP perhaps and it would be hard to disarm, there could be a percentage.

    Anyway If you can not include my wish, thanks for all the work you did.
     
  11. zenbitz

    zenbitz First time out of the vault

    84
    Dec 18, 2008
    I just think it should be like the fast loader .44mag mod or magneto-laser pistol. You add a scope to a gun, it's better at long range and doesn't hurt you at short. By the time you are 9th lvl or so you can just "golf bag" the guns anyway. I would just make the scoped version +1 lb.

    Yeah, but I think it should be _worse_ in fact, this site http://billstclair.com/energy.html indicates that the 7.62 is MORE THAN TWICE as effective on living targets than the 5.56!

    As it is, why would anyone ever use the assault rifle? (I mean in the FO game, not your mod, I am not looking at the stats.

    Sure, but it's the same _round_. It should do the same base damage. I never understood why the sniper rifle and hunting rifle used the same ammo. If you want the sniper rifle to do more damage, make it like .50 cal.

    The FO/FO2 guns are just wierd. I mean, 14mm? Really?
    I think you made a fantastic mod, great work, and good ideas. But why not do it in reverse (at least for "real life" bullets, not plasma guns, etc.). Make the guns based on something reasononable, then balance the prices/availability. There are already so many guns in FO2 that it will be difficult to make it so that anyone would ever use some of the more obscure not-great weapons (FNFAL, M60, etc.).

    Hmmm... I guess I am not considering what a pain in the ass it would be to reequip all the gun toters and containers according to your new ranking.
     
  12. Claude Frollo

    Claude Frollo It Wandered In From the Wastes

    183
    Jan 11, 2009
    Gauss Rifle and Gauss Pistol, these both have 50 range, should there not be a difference, a bit at least, both use 2mm EC, both have 50 range but rifle does more damage, this is not much logic. Perhaps pistol could have less range 35 or 40.
     
  13. zenbitz

    zenbitz First time out of the vault

    84
    Dec 18, 2008
    Well 50 range is the FO max. A real rifle (not talking gauss here) would have a range of 100's of meters (yards), although damage would be reduced. GURPS had a simple "1/2 dam" range for each gun/missile weapon.

    A gauss weapon is made up - and it's perfectly reasonable that the rifle accellerates the flechette faster = more damage (although you are right, this should increase the range)... Obv. > 50 is going to make FO maps a bit silly. Maybe it's more accurate at longer ranges. (add Weapon Long Range perk)
     
  14. your evil twin

    your evil twin It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 29, 2006
    I was just about to start a game of Fallout 2 using the unofficial patch and version 1.3 of this mod, since it looked like it fixed some of Fallout 2's problems. Armor piercing ammo actually better against armor than other types? Laser weapons that aren't reflected by every damn type of armor in the game? A Bozar that can either be used as a sniper rifle (like its description suggests) or with full-auto machine gun behaviour as in the original game? Brilliant!

    But reading the thread, I noticed Limbabness commenting on laser rifle animations... does this mod change the laser rifle to use "rifle" graphics instead of flamer big gun graphics? This is what he said:

    I recall that lots of Super Mutants use laser rifles, so if the laser rifle has been changed to use different animations then the remnants of the Master's army will become rather rubbish as many of them will effectively be unarmed! And then when the corpses are looted laser rifles will be discovered on their bodies, which'll be a bit weird.

    While logically it makes sense for the laser rifle to use rifle animations (since the inventory picture looks like a sniper rifle), this can't work unless new Super Mutant graphics and animations are created.
     
  15. Glovz

    Glovz Vault Dweller
    Modder

    735
    Sep 16, 2005
    I would recommend not using this mod at this time, I have become aware of some fundamental flaws.

    One is the changing of certian weapons type reference as suggested above affect how the engine chooses animations.

    Second that the inclusion of modified critter protos will cause the leveling up bug to appear.

    I have not had time to correct these issues in this version, but intend to do so with the next version which will be released sometime after the release of RP 1.3

    Sorry for inconvience, but keep the comments/suggestions coming.

    I will try to include instructions on how to correct some of the flaws soon if anyone is still interested in using this version of the mod.
     
  16. your evil twin

    your evil twin It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Apr 29, 2006
    Ah thanks for letting me know. :)

    I think in that case I my try aspects of Magnus's "Weapons Redone" mod. It's modular, so I might pick and choose bits, such as just the Energy Weapons aspect.

    I don't want to totally change the weapon balance since this if my first time playing Fallout 2 since about 7 years ago or something, but I recall being disapointed when I finally got my hands on a laser pistol from the Salvatore family and discovering it wasn't that much more powerful than a 10mm pistol.

    Alternatively, do you perhaps have a much earlier version of your mod that doesn't include changes to animation types? For instance, a mod that just changes the armor resistances so lasers are more effective. Combined with your AP Ammo mod that is already in sfall, I figure that might be enough for a slightly more balanced game. ;)
     
  17. McSquid

    McSquid First time out of the vault

    1
    Sep 8, 2009
    Hi, Just so you know the downloads from mediafire are not working. i would really like to try your mod out especially since im tired of all my weapons doing 0 damage (im early in the game but its really frustrating, i also got the 0 damage crit kill bug for rat king) That, and after reading this thread i must say it sounds very nice! please reupload the files when you get a chance
     
  18. hakimio

    hakimio It Wandered In From the Wastes

    165
    Feb 27, 2009
    Is this mod compatible with Killap's RP 2.0? If not, can it be updated?
     
  19. Gavinfoxx

    Gavinfoxx First time out of the vault

    10
    Dec 16, 2005
    Hi! As it currently exists, is this mod worth using, especially with PR 2.0? It seems like it touches more things than WR2.0... I dont think that one touches the phazer, for example.
     
  20. joochian

    joochian It Wandered In From the Wastes

    108
    Apr 1, 2010
    which one is the latest? combat overhaul or weapons redone?

    which one is better for FRP2.0.2d or later?