F3C - Fixing the Main Quest, a Discussion
- Thread starter Dubby
- Start date
Alphadrop
A right proper chap.
My Idea tis a simple one.
If you have a high intelligence you can convince your dad that the water purifier is a stupid idea anyway because radiation can be mostly removed by filtering the water through dirt and then boiling the rest to get rid of impurities.
Ergo you don't have to do any of the stupid main quest.
However that would make the main quest pretty short.
Though on a more serious note, change the G.E.C.K to a different McGuffin. Seeming as the G.E.C.K basically just has a small water purifier, a portable nuclear power generator and some freeze dried seeds there dosen't seem to be much point in getting one.
Update: Oh in fallout 3 is appears to be some wunderbar magic thingy that changes the very nature of reality in a blue flashy ball thingy.
Well it's still a stupid McGuffin.
If you have a high intelligence you can convince your dad that the water purifier is a stupid idea anyway because radiation can be mostly removed by filtering the water through dirt and then boiling the rest to get rid of impurities.
Ergo you don't have to do any of the stupid main quest.
However that would make the main quest pretty short.
Though on a more serious note, change the G.E.C.K to a different McGuffin. Seeming as the G.E.C.K basically just has a small water purifier, a portable nuclear power generator and some freeze dried seeds there dosen't seem to be much point in getting one.
Update: Oh in fallout 3 is appears to be some wunderbar magic thingy that changes the very nature of reality in a blue flashy ball thingy.
Well it's still a stupid McGuffin.
How about the story of the Vault 112 dweller?
Notice how some of those pods had people but don't anymore??
Maybe one of them found the failsafe and escaped tranquility lane and into the wasteland.The story would be the one of James, the vault 101 dweller father and the beginning of project purity.The start civil war between the outcasts and lyons brotherhoods, the swarming of DC by the supermutants and the arrival of the Enclave at Ravenrock and the birth of the vault 101 dweller, the escort to megaton and negotiations to gain a place for James and what happened after that.
Notice how some of those pods had people but don't anymore??
Maybe one of them found the failsafe and escaped tranquility lane and into the wasteland.The story would be the one of James, the vault 101 dweller father and the beginning of project purity.The start civil war between the outcasts and lyons brotherhoods, the swarming of DC by the supermutants and the arrival of the Enclave at Ravenrock and the birth of the vault 101 dweller, the escort to megaton and negotiations to gain a place for James and what happened after that.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
SPOILERS FOLLOW
I have a few ideas for "tweaking" the main quest. I don't agree with getting rid of it. It is canon now no matter what people want, so we are forced to make apple pie out of a bunch of shit covered apples.
A few improvements. I don't know how many are feasible. Depends on how many are working on it I guess:
Make it an option to join the Enclave. You could get missions from various key characters in the Enclave and travel around the wasteland following a completely different main quest line. You could stop them from killing your dad, or you could betray him.
Another option would be talking your Dad out of the Purifier Project. You would then wander the wasteland without any main quest and do whatever you want. Which brings me to another point; Make the character able to play after the main quest.
I like the idea someone had about your dad dieing and you continuing the quest. I think you should have a choice whether or not you continue the project or not. You could even find a replacement scientist to work on it like Dr. Li or something.
The Enclave could be introduced earlier than they are in the game. The player should have a choice then to work for them or be against them as well.
The main way I think the main quest should be fixed is by adding additional choices to the ones present in the game.
Example: Say you need to deal with Eden. The choices and dialogue in the final part of the game is ridiculous.
The dialogue for talking him into suicide is idiotic. Change it. Please.
Join the Enclave, help the Enclave out, Destroy the Enclave, Destroy Eden and talk Autumn into letting you partner up with him, Talk Eden into letting you take out Autumn. Talk the Enclave into not using the virus. Maybe even negotiate a peace treaty with BOS.
I am curious where the vertibirds come from. Maybe it would be possible to sabotage their base so they cannot attack you with them anymore. Or steal the tech and give it to BOS, so they can use them. It would be cool to have Lyons Pride fly around randomly with a vertibird.
Add more intelligence, speech, and perception checks. Make it affect the dialog. The dialog in the main quest needs to be fluffed up as well. James needs to explain more about his background. The enclave needs to be built up through dialog throughout the game to explain their sinister nature later on.
Change the endings. Add location specific slides that tell what happened. The locations could be:
Megaton
Tenpenny Tower
Vault 101
Rivet City
Underworld
Raven Rock
Citadel
Arefu
Make it an option to use a Rad suit or send your ally into the purifier to contaminate it or use it.
Possibly add an option to reprogram Prime to destroy the whole memorial and the BOS if desired. Or destroy the BOS and Enclave.
I have a few ideas for "tweaking" the main quest. I don't agree with getting rid of it. It is canon now no matter what people want, so we are forced to make apple pie out of a bunch of shit covered apples.
A few improvements. I don't know how many are feasible. Depends on how many are working on it I guess:
Make it an option to join the Enclave. You could get missions from various key characters in the Enclave and travel around the wasteland following a completely different main quest line. You could stop them from killing your dad, or you could betray him.
Another option would be talking your Dad out of the Purifier Project. You would then wander the wasteland without any main quest and do whatever you want. Which brings me to another point; Make the character able to play after the main quest.
I like the idea someone had about your dad dieing and you continuing the quest. I think you should have a choice whether or not you continue the project or not. You could even find a replacement scientist to work on it like Dr. Li or something.
The Enclave could be introduced earlier than they are in the game. The player should have a choice then to work for them or be against them as well.
The main way I think the main quest should be fixed is by adding additional choices to the ones present in the game.
Example: Say you need to deal with Eden. The choices and dialogue in the final part of the game is ridiculous.
The dialogue for talking him into suicide is idiotic. Change it. Please.
Join the Enclave, help the Enclave out, Destroy the Enclave, Destroy Eden and talk Autumn into letting you partner up with him, Talk Eden into letting you take out Autumn. Talk the Enclave into not using the virus. Maybe even negotiate a peace treaty with BOS.
I am curious where the vertibirds come from. Maybe it would be possible to sabotage their base so they cannot attack you with them anymore. Or steal the tech and give it to BOS, so they can use them. It would be cool to have Lyons Pride fly around randomly with a vertibird.
Add more intelligence, speech, and perception checks. Make it affect the dialog. The dialog in the main quest needs to be fluffed up as well. James needs to explain more about his background. The enclave needs to be built up through dialog throughout the game to explain their sinister nature later on.
Change the endings. Add location specific slides that tell what happened. The locations could be:
Megaton
Tenpenny Tower
Vault 101
Rivet City
Underworld
Raven Rock
Citadel
Arefu
Make it an option to use a Rad suit or send your ally into the purifier to contaminate it or use it.
Possibly add an option to reprogram Prime to destroy the whole memorial and the BOS if desired. Or destroy the BOS and Enclave.
I dunno about this, the enclave isn't exactly an open group, and it seems a little bit... eh, I don't know. They're meant to be the antagonists. Their job is to either try to kill you or try to manipulate you.
While letting Dad in on the fact that his work doesn't have much scientific basis is an amusing idea, I don't necessarily see the purpose of ending the main quest. You're free to ditch it at any time by simply not doing it.
I think that they are introduced well enough through the Eyebots. Seeing the troopers in person should be held off as long as possible, imo. Perhaps some quick glimpses here and there, but no direct interaction
That's a really cool idea.
I say take all that shit out because it SUCKS
Or you could possibly have to pass an extremely high repair and science check (combined) in order to activate the robot for use, if not, then you must battle through the Enclave troops leading to the Jefferson Memorial yourself with the Lyons Pride. Conceptually, it could be altered so that the issue with Liberty Prime itself is not improper functioning, but rather that the systems aren't routed properly, thus making the player's ability to repair it plausible.
If the player does not repair Liberty Prime, he could possibly destroy the barriers blocking his path with high Explosives, thus allowing the Brotherhood to advance quickly but with increased resistance as the Enclave recognizes the use of powerful weaponry. A Science player who does not have adequate repair skill to activate Liberty Prime could hack the grid powering the force fields and shut them all down, providing quick advancement, on the other side of the coin, a player with high Repair could fiddle with the construct of individual forcefields and shut them down one by one, not as effective as a Science player's result, but still an option.
To make it more difficult, there could be far more Enclave troops occupying the path to the Memorial, there could also be Speech checks with various random Brotherhood members to provide fodder for the attack, like the Enclave troops at the end of Fallout 2.
Rivet City might also be convinced to lend some of their security teams, since the city itself is crippled by the irradiated waters surrounding it, the player could inform them of the specifics of the program and convince them to provide some support, there could be Intelligence checks to convince them that if the Enclave captures the Purifier, there would be no hope of free water without consequence, but if the Brotherhood takes hold of it, their problems with the sickly waters surrounding their home would be solved without much of a price beyond a fierce battle.
Charisma or Speech checks might rally them behind you with pure vehemence against the Enclave, but Intelligence would provide substantial reasoning that will provide many more security members from Rivet City rallying behind you as you have given them a clear goal and cause.
There could be several other ideas implemented. Know how the Enclave utilizes mortars against the Brotherhood during the battle? A Big Guns or Explosives character could possibly help construct or rig similar weaponry for the Brotherhood and thus soften up the Enclave forces with artillery bombardment.
There are countless other possibilities as well, medical help boosting the abilities of your fellow Brotherhood members in battle with a high Medicine skill perhaps? Tons of plausible and sensible things to consider in improving the endgame.
If the player does not repair Liberty Prime, he could possibly destroy the barriers blocking his path with high Explosives, thus allowing the Brotherhood to advance quickly but with increased resistance as the Enclave recognizes the use of powerful weaponry. A Science player who does not have adequate repair skill to activate Liberty Prime could hack the grid powering the force fields and shut them all down, providing quick advancement, on the other side of the coin, a player with high Repair could fiddle with the construct of individual forcefields and shut them down one by one, not as effective as a Science player's result, but still an option.
To make it more difficult, there could be far more Enclave troops occupying the path to the Memorial, there could also be Speech checks with various random Brotherhood members to provide fodder for the attack, like the Enclave troops at the end of Fallout 2.
Rivet City might also be convinced to lend some of their security teams, since the city itself is crippled by the irradiated waters surrounding it, the player could inform them of the specifics of the program and convince them to provide some support, there could be Intelligence checks to convince them that if the Enclave captures the Purifier, there would be no hope of free water without consequence, but if the Brotherhood takes hold of it, their problems with the sickly waters surrounding their home would be solved without much of a price beyond a fierce battle.
Charisma or Speech checks might rally them behind you with pure vehemence against the Enclave, but Intelligence would provide substantial reasoning that will provide many more security members from Rivet City rallying behind you as you have given them a clear goal and cause.
There could be several other ideas implemented. Know how the Enclave utilizes mortars against the Brotherhood during the battle? A Big Guns or Explosives character could possibly help construct or rig similar weaponry for the Brotherhood and thus soften up the Enclave forces with artillery bombardment.
There are countless other possibilities as well, medical help boosting the abilities of your fellow Brotherhood members in battle with a high Medicine skill perhaps? Tons of plausible and sensible things to consider in improving the endgame.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
I'm just throwing ideas out there. It just seems to me like the Enclave were thrown into the game the last couple of hours. I would like for them to be at least mentioned as being bad. Nathaniel says they are great and other people act weird, but don't really talk about how bad the Enclave is.
I don't know why using a rad suit so you don't die sucks as an idea in your opinion. It makes more sense than going in and getting killed or sending Lyons pride bitch (i forgot her name).
It would seem logical to send in Fawkes instead of getting killed.
Just saying.
I don't know why using a rad suit so you don't die sucks as an idea in your opinion. It makes more sense than going in and getting killed or sending Lyons pride bitch (i forgot her name).
It would seem logical to send in Fawkes instead of getting killed.
Just saying.
T
TorontoReign
Guest
bhlaab said:
I see. Your right. The last bits of the game suck. But I am up in the air on whether or not they should be altered or thrown out. I like to keep things the same and add on with games. I don't like to take out things that were already there.
I think the endgame should be much harder though.
As a side note I have found one bug with the main quest.
If you discover the location of James prior to going to GNR, then you do -NOT- get to meet sentinel lyons on the run up to GNR, *nor* do you get their help dealing with the large mutant attack *OR* with the behemoth. You also don't get the fatman or the power armors.
Amusingly however, if you kill Three Dog, he gets replaced on the radio with a (nervous) technician with an amusing sense of cynicism.
As a sidenote: I'd like to get filled in on what the scope of the van buren plot-line was, and how the ending was supposed to play out.
edit: v0.4.9.7 has a performance upgrade to minigun class weapons (excluding gatling laser). also has a performance alteration to shotgun shell weapons, see the readme for details.
If you discover the location of James prior to going to GNR, then you do -NOT- get to meet sentinel lyons on the run up to GNR, *nor* do you get their help dealing with the large mutant attack *OR* with the behemoth. You also don't get the fatman or the power armors.
Amusingly however, if you kill Three Dog, he gets replaced on the radio with a (nervous) technician with an amusing sense of cynicism.
As a sidenote: I'd like to get filled in on what the scope of the van buren plot-line was, and how the ending was supposed to play out.
edit: v0.4.9.7 has a performance upgrade to minigun class weapons (excluding gatling laser). also has a performance alteration to shotgun shell weapons, see the readme for details.
mrowa said:
Agreed, and could be implemented in "bethout" with some hard work and dedication. The question is, how to intertwine the vanilla purifier plot with the evil doctor presper... Brainstorm, folks!
(As a sidenote I do have friends that are talented conceptual artists in the game industry. Granted if this rewrite of the main plot gets enough momentum and sense of quality, I could persuade them to provide original designs for modelers to work with.)
Make a purify as long side quest maybe that will be needed for your reputation witch brotherhood or other fraction that will control it
Getting pulled from jail actually make a great marker for side quest and some mini quests which will guild u to the next part of the main one. At the beginning player could run with some other inmate and they could be surprise by the robots but at the same time there show a pack of deathclaws and start to fight with robots ( inmate can die in that battle) then u run forword into the cave which is an exist from prison zone into the wasteland and then ....
Getting pulled from jail actually make a great marker for side quest and some mini quests which will guild u to the next part of the main one. At the beginning player could run with some other inmate and they could be surprise by the robots but at the same time there show a pack of deathclaws and start to fight with robots ( inmate can die in that battle) then u run forword into the cave which is an exist from prison zone into the wasteland and then ....
@Dubby:
is your goal to :
-modify the existing main quest to make it interesting ?
-make a 100% new quest (without any link with this one) ?
(-or are you asking us what option we would prefer ?
)
I prefer the first option, as the idea is to show bethesda that it would not have been difficult to make a good game/plot. They had good ideas, but bad realization...
If the water plot is kept, the player should chose his side, as it has been said here. He will then take the purifier in order to (depending of his faction) :
-purify the water with the BoS for the sake of humanity
-create with enclave a "purifier" that create water which kills mutants (and ghouls) in order to have a "purified humanity"
(or third possibility :
-join the dissidents and send the purifier technology to the Eastern BoS, because such technology would be very interesting to study, and DC people don't need it : they survived without it for years...)
is your goal to :
-modify the existing main quest to make it interesting ?
-make a 100% new quest (without any link with this one) ?
(-or are you asking us what option we would prefer ?
) I prefer the first option, as the idea is to show bethesda that it would not have been difficult to make a good game/plot. They had good ideas, but bad realization...
If the water plot is kept, the player should chose his side, as it has been said here. He will then take the purifier in order to (depending of his faction) :
-purify the water with the BoS for the sake of humanity
-create with enclave a "purifier" that create water which kills mutants (and ghouls) in order to have a "purified humanity"
(or third possibility :
-join the dissidents and send the purifier technology to the Eastern BoS, because such technology would be very interesting to study, and DC people don't need it : they survived without it for years...)
