F3C - Fixing the Main Quest, a Discussion

Dubby

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
For anyone who views this who's completed the game knows, the main quest is rather bad. More the point, the problems lie simply in the execution and progression of the "plot". So we need to ask ourselves a few things.

What needs to be changed?
How can the plot be improved?
What can we add to improve the execution?
Which parts are almost unbearable?
Which parts are enjoyable?

And so forth. If the NMA is going to fix Fallout 3, part of that attention must also be pressed on the primary mission in the game.

So with the board up and the chalk untouched, let's see what we can do to improve the main quest, shall we?
 
I would remove main quest completely and add more fun stuff like jobs from fa2 examples:slaver,ranger,pornstar,boxer,caravan guard,gambler and many more...

Lets be honest main quest sucks and theres nothing that can make it right...iamb not even sure if theres point in fixing main quest...

Just my opinion i would add small stuff that makes people smile instead of another save the world quest...

Edit:Not sure if its possible but maybe bos,enclave or raiders could fight for some points on map and player could join bos,enclave or raiders...i was thinking about similar thing like faction wars in clear sky...
 
Agree plot should be changed completely
Maybe start as a char from f2 who due his travels and large exposure on radiation changed in the ghoul and now he seek a cure for it
Or ther was experiments in every krypt why would not be the one in urs and becouse of it u run from it and then .....
 
Yes. A part-time job would make things more interesting. also more random events and possibly random sidequests with more than 5 enemies mobbing you or your party.

Personally I had an idea about a total freeplay universe where you can do anything from wandering the wastes as a mercenary, or possibly start your own settlement where random events would also test your character's abilities as well as your town's

I would also like to see something like a random quest pop up. Say you joined the Brotherhood, now that you are a Brotherhoodie, you get called up by a paladin now and again to do some patrol, scout, or attack missions. Or a citizen of Megaton in need of doing some delivery, patrol or whatever else comes to mind mission. Or in Big Town where you must defend it from slavers and mutants every now and then. Or help protect Arefu from Goth raids. I really enjoy random stuff and career based missions.
 
i don't think the plot itself is THAT bad

my main grips are

1. to be good you pretty much have to die

2. enclave should have a major role not a minor one.
 
Design-wise, everything before you find your father is fine. Non-linear fact-hunting, but with a hand-holding line to help you along. Maybe add more links to the chain (add some new towns "maybe he went here... no wait maybe he went there!) Cut out the lame mandatory Boss Fight in front of GNR and you're good.

After you find your father, that's where it all falls apart. Ditch having to escort his invincible ass across the wasteland, and get rid of all those retarded linear quests.

Here's how I'd do it:
-Have your dad in vault 112 say he will meet you at the jefferson memorial. You have a choice to try to recruit dr. li and her scientists. It will require a speech check or other alternatives

-Have dad or someone say "We need a GECK, but we don't know where to find one. The brotherhood of steel probably knows where some vaults are" so you go to them, do a quest or whatever to get in, and then you have to search each vault to try to find the GECK

-Valt 87 being the source of the super mutants is pretty fucking lame and sells the whole occupation of DC short. Maybe plant those seeds elsewhere in a brand new area. I just thought of this one: How about there is some East Tek lab where some super mutants who still pledge allegiance to the Master are dipping folks.

-Vault 87: Instead just have it be a somewhat normal vault that was comprimised to the Super Mutants. That's why it's so overrun. Fawkes could be here or in East Tek as a recent dip that mantains his allegiance to humanity instead of being locked up for 200 years (seriously bethesda?)

-The GECK is here and you can get to it using Fawkes or braving the radiation. Maybe add a new method?

-NO AMBUSH

-Once you bring the GECK back to the jefferson memorial, the Enclave has already assumed control by the time you get there (no more escape sequence) and are occupying the area. You can break in or sneak in but ultimately you see your father die in a similar way. Maybe Autumn shouldn't be present. This event triggers weak Enclave troopers to litter the overworld as per usual.
Maybe have Dad's death etc take place somewhere besides the memorial due to REPETITION.

-I'm drawing a bit of a blank here as to what should go in between.

-The climax of the game should be infiltrating raven rock. Enclave troopers here should be significantly stronger. Similar events should occur here to the regular game... You notice a splitting within the enclave and can side with eden (taint the water) autumn (start up the purifier) or neither. you can blow the place up either by detonating a bomb or convincing eden to blow himself up (requires the player to have done something to give him a REASON to blow himself up)

-If you're allied with autumn, you can enter the memorial no problem but will get the evil ending where the enclave triumphs, eden is shut down for good, and you become the first vice president of the New Capitol

-If you're not allied with autumn the enclave troopers will hate the fuck out of you and you'll have to break/sneak/destroy your way in.
-If you blew up Raven Rock you get the good ending, you're a saint, everyone gets water, yay.

-If you didn't blow up Raven Rock, autumn hates you/is dead, and you activate the purifier without tainting it, you get a karma roll ending:
good- The enclave takes over the purifier by brute force and gains incredible power in the capitol wasteland. You lead a rebellion group named "The Good Fight"
neutral- The enclave takes over the purifier, but you've finished your father's work and as far as you're concerned you've done your job. You head west.
evil- The enclave takes over the purifier, which is pretty much what you expected. They grow in power, eventually becoming the New Capitol. Life gets tough pretty quick, and you always regret not jumping at the offer to join when you had it. The New Capitol Government destroys all records that Vault 101 existed.

-If you don't blow up Raven Rock and taint the water supply at eden's request you get the shitty ending where everyone dies. Without anyone to rule over, there's not much point for the Enclave to stick around. After Autumn uses this gaff to finally convince everyone to turn off the damn computer, first order of business as the new president is to initiate a manhunt to take you out. You spend the rest of your days wandering the wastes, being hunted by the most powerful force in the world and it kind of sucks.

-If you did blow up Raven Rock and tainted the water supply, you get the What was I thinking? ending. Everybody drops like flies around you but, having grown up in a vault, you aren't affected. The Enclave shrivels without leadership, with equally immune troopers dotting the landscape. After a few short-lived generations the capitol wasteland is empty and word spreads across the land of your evil, and quite puzzling, deed.
 
- add a real quest, not a "go to x and kill/find y"
- add skillchecks, violence should not be the sole solution to everything
- if you don't which to remove your father (I would), let the enclave take him and you have to free him
- design a new goal (pp is awful) and a new mainvillain (we already destroyed the enclave, leave them in if you must, but two times the same villain with no new concept/motivation/idea sucks and is boring)
 
Btw why arent ther a chinnes as a fraction usa got power armors and chinnes got what cloth suits how the heck did they get alaska ?!
They should be ther as a fraction in some fort and like outcast should have larger (5-10) patrol parties searching for some technology maybe even add some chinnes power armors or robots
They would have some quests for player or would be aggresive and attack some towns fight with brotherhood and enclave maybe even overun enclave befor the player :P
 
chipk said:
Yes. A part-time job would make things more interesting. also more random events and possibly random sidequests with more than 5 enemies mobbing you or your party.

Personally I had an idea about a total freeplay universe where you can do anything from wandering the wastes as a mercenary, or possibly start your own settlement where random events would also test your character's abilities as well as your town's

I would also like to see something like a random quest pop up. Say you joined the Brotherhood, now that you are a Brotherhoodie, you get called up by a paladin now and again to do some patrol, scout, or attack missions. Or a citizen of Megaton in need of doing some delivery, patrol or whatever else comes to mind mission. Or in Big Town where you must defend it from slavers and mutants every now and then. Or help protect Arefu from Goth raids. I really enjoy random stuff and career based missions.

Agread on that but thats too much work :( i doubt any one can do that...

And for christ sake stop shiting about main quest how many times you can save world or vault and get kicked out of one at end?
 
I pretty agree with bhlaab.

Most of the quest (most i said) is not too bad but done in a bethesda way :
-on rail
-one way to do things
-dungeon style
-boring

-before finding your father is quite ok, but more clues are necessary (and false clues also). Alternatives to the Megaton-GNR-Revet-Jefferson-V112 paved road, or shortcuts, would be good.

-the "make lame quests for me if you want info" MUST have alternatives (others than a speech check). In GNR of course, but also in little lamplight, later. It MUST be possible to kill everyone in little lamplight, because with 8 char&int, 85% speech, i had to win a 49% check.

-many locations have to be improved : Jefferson memorial#1 is full of messages "you can't do that now" : its very stupid ! Jefferson Memorial #2 is pretty lame too with "find the fuse panel, go to your father to pick a fuse, go again to the fuse panel..." etc.
Tranquility Lane could have been a good idea, but again Beth. have wasted all. Both in TL and in reality you must have more possibilities...

(for the moment i'm in vault 87 so i can't say anything further).

I think the main quest is not SO bad (just incredibly boring, since the beginning i was hoping that "project purity" was in fact a project of the enclave for finding "pure people", disguised in a social project). It just need to be un-wasted with more liberty and more creativity...
 
I was thinking of how to go about 'fixing' the mainquest, lo and behold; this thread pops up.

Starting when the PC finds Dad, it starts to become unbearable.
I found the idea and assets behind"tranquility lane" a very interesting premise, the execution was poor though.

I also found that starting when you find dad, it all get's VERY rubber-banded, and you get less and less freedom, to a point where you can't even "leave" the mainquest area.

A questline where either your father dies and asks you to find an important part to fix the purifier and finish his work, or where dad gets captured, resulting in you having to free dad from a heavily guarded enclave fortress.

it would be much more fitting to allow the player to get a choice on how to "solve" the main quest, not dependant on karma or current companions, none of this "the main hero dies" hello kitty adventure-plot.

IF joinable factions were to be included, it'd be nice to be able to join the enclave, the Brotherhood of steel, the ghoul faction and/or the talon mercs, resulting in different climaxes at the end.

large scale battles in DC between super mutants, enclave, Talco mercs and Brotherhood of steel would also be nice to see, as it would add "believability" to the whole factions at war thing.

In short I'd love to see a mainquest a lot more in the style of the original fallouts(more freeform), there is nothing set in stone, there are clues to find and locations to visit, but if you want you can skip everything and head straight for the final area to do what's needed there.

Also i think there should be an alternative way of getting PA training, preferably another faction using PA's, and off course preferably TB51's.
This would allow for more choice on the player's side, and would result in us NOT having to go halfway through the mainquest to get power armor training in the lamest way possible(fade to black, no time passed, wheeej)
A severely tough quest would suffice i think, like the glow in F1, perhaps in the fashion of stealing some ancient tech from the museum?

Off topic: was i the only one to think that rivet city is a much more fitting place for the BoS base, the citadel left a foul taste in my mouth as the fortress of the BoS; their tech basicly sucks in F3?
 
So many good ideas here we should start from beginning
I think ther should be a pool in here wher is that ther should be new plot line or mod existing one
 
I think it will be hard to remake the main quest, everyone will probably have played through it by the time they play the mod, so by the time they come to F3C, even if you do a bang up job, they'll know the general structure... not have a feeling of suspense, and while they might appreciate your approvements they won't be fully enthralled.

I sidestep this by completely jumping out of FO3 altogether in my mod, but my idea for F3C would be:

- Pretend the main quest was lifted entirely from the game.

- Put back the locations/quests as subquests that you like, but detach them from the main quest line, just make them fun things to do in that location (like all other quests).

- If there is a location you want to use in your new main quest, leave it blank, for instance Raven Rock you might want to entirely remake if you plan to use the Enclave.

- Create a new main quest entirely, perhaps nothing to do with good old Dad.

The reason I suggest it is that players will have no clue exactly what is going to happen in the game. They'll have a reason to seek out the quest. You'll have creative liberty to make a quest that actually has a cool structure (like the more spread out, red herrings version described at one point in this post). You can still make use of objects of course, like the Enclave, or the GECK, but the more variable it is, the more I think people will ultimately enjoy playing it.

As for main quests, I'll throw out some briefs:

- The Enclave comes back. Maintain and expand the Enclave showing up in force, make another justification, but the point is they are a real threat. Even better, make it a staged invasion, perhaps spreading out from Raven Rock, and you need to stop them before they kill every thing in the Wasteland.

- The GECK quest, your goal in the main quest is to create a new settlement in some barren part of the waste, and for that you need a GECK. Yes, its a rehash to the setup story for Fallout 2, but this time you actually create the settlement, and your goal is to negotiate treaties with various factions, encourage people to set up shop, and protect the growing settlement from some monster force.

- Something entirely new. My personal favorite, something we haven't seen before in a main quest, let your creativity run wild, and plot out something that can be strung through the many locations in the game world.
+ Civil War in the BOS
+ Tyrannical Vault 101 Overseer gets overthrown and explore what happens when they set out from the only truly functional vault in the area.
+ It's DC, get into the Great War and explore what went wrong, somewhere has to have some data.
+ Mad Raider is trying to become Napoleon 2 (well er 3?), help or prevent him from uniting the wastes.

So on and so forth. I personally prefer being surprised, and I can just see myself, you guys putting dozens of hours into it, and I still play through it and go "wow that was nice, but na, I'm not going to detour to Tenpenny Tower because I know Vault 87 is my next major point along the path". Red herrings are very valuable, look at their use in Fallout 1, and that is hard to do after everyone has been hand held through the structure of your main quest, and knows every waypoint.
 
this idea:

IF joinable factions were to be included, it'd be nice to be able to join the enclave, the Brotherhood of steel, the ghoul faction and/or the talon mercs, resulting in different climaxes at the end.

Adds alot of potential for non-linear gameplay, and would be a good starting perogative.
 
Dubby said:
this idea:

IF joinable factions were to be included, it'd be nice to be able to join the enclave, the Brotherhood of steel, the ghoul faction and/or the talon mercs, resulting in different climaxes at the end.

Adds alot of potential for non-linear gameplay, and would be a good starting perogative.

I just wonder how much remains of the old Oblivion faction-programming, thus resulting in either slightly doable to insanely hard, impossible even.

But I think it'd make the game much more replayable.
 
Dubby said:
It's all still there. How else do you think animal friend works?

So they did include(or did not remove) the tools to have elements in the game to make it more deep, but they didn't because the console kiddies would be satisfied with VATS?
:clap:

But then again, good news for ambitious modders.

I do have the feeling that this is de-railing the thread somewhat, as this could very well be non-mainquest related.

*wanders off dreaming of becoming a BoS initiate, ghoul scavenger, talon merc or evil enclave soldier*
 
I'm for factions, though it depends on how they are implemented. STALKER-like is taking things a bit too far. But if it plays out like, say, the New Reno crime families where you can run jobs for all of them but each one has a moral dilemma involved and their missions eventually cause conflicts of interest with one another, then sure
 
One of the biggest mistakes of Beth/Emil is making you play a second role to your dad and other charachters. A mistake of creating a story that mostly depends on other NPCs. The plot should be built entirely aroud you - the player, and no other NPC should be essential (and hence unkillable)

Thus all the parts that rely on immortal NPCs should be gone. Keep the dad unkillable in the vault 101 only.
Then let him die and leave up to you to finish the project.

And then I would use a conflict around the purifier between Enclave and Brotherhood for the final stage - player would be free to choose sides and either join Enclave to beat BoS or vise versa

Another problem - as already mentioined - silly go-there linear tasks instead of playing to the game's main strength: exploration. Hero should have goals with some hints and general directions, to look fore more clues.


I have an idea of remaking the quest radically, but I understand its a huge undertaking...

Well say your vault is attacked and most people get killed. You hide in some lower levels... your dad is killed too. So you go out to investigate what happened. You find out about the dad`s Project Purity and ties with enclave. But long story short - it appears that it was BoS that attacked the vault and killed your dad. And the Project Purity was Enclaved-supported thing to purify the land from all the mutants from the start. So you have a choice to avenge your dad and exterminate Brotherhood or accept the sad truth and team up with BoS to fight Enclave`s evil plans. (again Enc vs BoS main line)
 
Back
Top