Fallout 2 Restoration Project 2.1.2b (Unofficial Expansion)

[TwinkieGorilla]

Ok, yeah, yeah. But you do realize none of that...like NONE of it should be necessary? It is totally something which needs to be fixed. If y'all are so intent on these weapon/ammo tweaks then maybe Lara's foes shouldn't be so fucking hard to kill?

 

[BrecMadak]

Ok, yeah, yeah. But you do realize none of that...like NONE of it should be necessary? It is totally something which needs to be fixed. If y'all are so intent on these weapon/ammo tweaks then maybe Lara's foes shouldn't be so fucking hard to kill?

Being harder to kill is not a bad thing for veteran players like us, so its better for freaks who seeks challenge.

 

[valcik]

That's what knives are for. Stab those armored suckers in the eye, Twinkie! That will teach them.

 

[Darek]

Ok, yeah, yeah. But you do realize none of that...like NONE of it should be necessary? It is totally something which needs to be fixed. If y'all are so intent on these weapon/ammo tweaks then maybe Lara's foes shouldn't be so fucking hard to kill?

Not so sure ammo tweaks are a big issue here. If you have a harder time killing them, so will they have killing each other, no?

Lara will survive pretty easily when she is not the one starting combat (they will all run to attack, usually the spear wielding female gets there first), as that causes the other gang to mostly target her.

When I said all will RUN to attack I meant everyone but the sledge hammer dude, who will only walk there, and thus be a bit late to the fight (dunno why he won't run, maybe missing animation, as the code is the same).
Him just standing dicking around like happened to you is probably caused by his target being blocked by other critters, and instead of choosing a new one he does nothing. Would be great if Timeslip could make the critters pick a target first thing every round and not just pick one and be locked on to that one until it dies (at least I think that is how it works).

Also, by ALL will <s>run to</s> attack, I meant sometimes all. The gunman has a habit of killing himself for no apparent reason when you enter the east side of the Den, so he will not always be with you. Now, Lara's gang is always hanging around on the East map (just that they are invisible until the church fight), and every time you enter he has a chance to off himself. I haven't been able to figure out why, but it can happen anytime, not just when going to the church fight.

 

[valcik]

Glovz's damage fix can be disabled anytime by editing DamageFormula parameter in ddraw.ini file.

 

[McRae]

I agree with you Twinkie.

That fight should be better-balanced. There's something like 3 or 4 persons in metal armor, and there's that asshole with the leather jacket and desert eagle. I don't remember if Tyler has a desert eagle too... anyway, that's too much. Most of the time I find myself keeping that fight for later in the game.

Here, the problem is that Lara will only give you the money at the end of the fight. And most of the time Lara end up dead.

So yeah, it definitely needs some fixing.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Maybe Tyler and his minions should get penalties for being drunk. They're supposed to be in the middle of a party after all.

 

[killap]

Killap, is it too late to ask a little question about a vanilla bug?
When you win the game, you are explicitly authorized by Lynette to enter Vault City with any companion, but the Doctor still becomes hostile if you enter the vault with Marcus. I think there is a missing check where he might want to know if you already destroyed the Enclave if you aren't the Captain of the Guard. His behavior should be the same. Anyway, I don't know if it's already fixed in the RP, I still didn't won the RP this time, and prior times I didn't talked to Lynette after winning, so I was unaware of this.

Probably a check missing. Good find. Please add this to the bug wiki so that I don't forgot.

@UniversalWolf
Good point about the house party guards having some penalties for being drunk. They probably should.

As for the church guards and balancing, I don't have much to say there. It's been a while since I actually played the game but I do recall that being a tough fight early on. And it will definitely be harder for all parties involved if you have any of the ammo mods applied. And you all do realize I'm not holding a gun to your heads to install the extras in the installer?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

And you all do realize I'm not holding a gun to your heads to install the extras in the installer?

Head? No. Butt? Yes.

Anyway, yeah. I suppose I just trusted that what was checked off by default was the best, you know, default option. It's kinda not. Maybe the default installer should only have checked the very basic Killap material and leave the rest up to the downloaders' discretion? If people want to go that far, let them?

Anyway, one of the serious things I said which got dumped earlier which I'd still like to see in print is this:

Anyway, other dudes: I'm not looking for solutions since I'm far past that bit anyway. I just wanted, initially, to bring to your attention that a fight which I was once able to watch unfold without even joining in has turned into a fight which ends up with deaths before I've spent a couple turns. This isn't because I'm "doing it wrong" and it's not because I'm not a "veteran" and it's not because "I'm the sort to just rush in". I'm just saying, maybe it's something you want to take a look at. I've played that battle a thousand times pre-Killap/ammo/dammage mods and never even thought twice about it. P.S. You know I love Killap and the lot of you modders and when I'm giving you shit I'm just fucking about being a pissant.

EDIT: Anyway.

 

[killap]

You know I love Killap and the lot of you modders and when I'm giving you shit I'm just fucking about being a pissant.

<3

P.S. You really are an angry man though.

 

[.Pixote.]

I think the difficulty is OK, sure its harder than before, but with the right setup - (a Magmun 44 + Leather armor - with Sulik using a SMG with armor piercing ammo) the battle can be over before you know it, and all that stuff is available by the time you reach the Den.

Personally the harder the better - but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Wait and see what happens at the Enclave when every second critter has a Gauss rifle - basically all your NPC's will die if they charge the enemy...

So Killap do you want to add the 'The Extended Flamer Attack Mod' to the RP? Basically the flame attacks have a few extra frames of animation.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I think the difficulty is OK, sure its harder than before, but with the right setup - (a Magmun 44 + Leather armor - with Sulik using a SMG with armor piercing ammo) the battle can be over before you know it, and all that stuff is available by the time you reach the Den.

Stop NOT paying attention.

This isn't about difficulty as I got past that part fine. Loot I had by that point was also fine. Hell, more than fine. But there is no way Lara should be dying immediately after I've taken my third turn (having not even killed anybody myself at this point). That's not even close to how the original implementation of that battle played out. It's unbalanced and stupid; stop trying to justify or defend it. Not all of your tweaks are making this game better than it originally stood, ok? I know you're all proud of yourselves, etc. But seriously. No.

 

[Glovz]

I think the difficulty is OK, sure its harder than before, but with the right setup - (a Magmun 44 + Leather armor - with Sulik using a SMG with armor piercing ammo) the battle can be over before you know it, and all that stuff is available by the time you reach the Den.

Stop NOT paying attention.

This isn't about difficulty as I got past that part fine. Loot I had by that point was also fine. Hell, more than fine. But there is no way Lara should be dying immediately after I've taken my third turn (having not even killed anybody myself at this point). That's not even close to how the original implementation of that battle played out. It's unbalanced and stupid; stop trying to justify or defend it. Not all of your tweaks are making this game better than it originally stood, ok? I know you're all proud of yourselves, etc. But seriously. No.

It's possible Twinkie has a point. I have not played the game for a while and if with my mod on; ammo actually helping to cause the damage it was meant too, then the hp of some critters might need to be looked at. Considering Laura is a gang leader, one would hope (I haven't looked at her proto file) that her hp is slightly higher than other critters around her.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Part of the problem also seems to be that everybody is aiming for her and ignoring everybody else (and the guard who sometimes gets cock-blocked and never comes around the building doesn't help).

How do the HP's and armor ratings of Tyler's gang compare with Lara's? They should be the same (or maybe even less, as Uni Wolf pointed out...or at least have perception penalties).

 

[Glovz]

Critter targeting is an engine function I believe and has come up as an issue couple of times before.

I will post a question to Timeslip and see if she is willing to help.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Ok, what about the second part of my post? Do you know?

 

[Glovz]

Ok, what about the second part of my post? Do you know?

I don't have Fallout or the mapper installed at the moment, someone with the mapper installed will need to examine the proto files for Laura and her gang members to determine their hp. Sorry.

 

[Darek]

Stop NOT paying attention.

How about you NOT being so angry
Really, the game has not changed the way you think it has.

The church fight is the same as it always was. All of them have metal armors. Lara has 76 HP, and her gang a bit less. Marc has 80 HP, his pals have a bit less. Tyler is not at the church.
Unless I'm totally wrong, the ammo modification that was done made armor piercing ammo more efficient against metal armor, and normal ammo less. Every one in that fight uses normal ammo except Lara, so in effect that would make her a bit better and the others a bit worse.

I acknowledged and explained some of the problems you saw in my previous post, but that's nothing new, it's always been there.
If something is wrong it should be fixed, and hopefully will. But Lara dying in the fight is nothing wrong, it's always a possibility. It's fallout after all, critical hits can make things pretty unpredictable.
Most of the time Lara will survive and win without any help from you, but every once in a while all her enemies will target her, and she goes down. Not a bug as I see it.

If anyone wants to bitch about the party fight with Tyler, that's another story.

@ killap,
I agree UniversalWolf's suggestion is a good idea. Also it would be good to put Lara a bit back at the party, so there's less of a chance everyone targets her there.
If Lara dies at the party you get the experience points but not your pay ($300), also If any of her men survives the church fight but later dies at the party, they are still alive and kickin back at the church.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

How about you NOT being so angry

*shakes magic 8-ball*

"Don't count on it."

Tyler is not at the church.

You know what I meant.

If anyone wants to bitch about the party fight with Tyler, that's another story.

Pretty sure I did that last time during the previous Killap patch. Also, I refuse to believe that something isn't different/hasn't changed. To have played a game for years and years and suddenly be faced with drastically different results? Come on. Though I will admit I might be confusing my frustration with the beginning part of the fight this time with my previous Tyler house party fight of yesteryear. I don't know. I've just never seen Lara get downed before I even had a chance to level anybody myself or come to her rescue.

 

[Lexx]

Isn't the "problem" with Lara that when the combat is initiated, Lara is told as the first target and therefore everyone going rampage on her first? Not sure right now, but this is what happens in my Fo2 mod. When I strictly tell two groups to attack each other, one specific critter is *always* the first, because the script runs through the critters, marks them with a temporary var and the last one in that cycle becomes the "true" first target.