BrecMadak
First time out of the vault
thanks for clarifying "that" head out Haenlomal, which was giving headaches with non-stop cries, worse than a kid. At last, we shall continue reading other things from now on hopefully.
Fallout 2 Restoration Project 2.1.2b (Unofficial Expansion)
- Thread starter killap
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First time out of the vault
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
I'd say it's considerably harder than a mere 3x. Because of their behavior, your opponents will almost always kill a "normal" player character if the focus on him exclusively. I had 10 APs every turn and massive HPs from having 10 EN, and I still almost died. You will have no choice but to use exploitive tactics to succeed.Haenlomal said:
This is not to say I disagree with anything you've done. On the contrary, I agree with it. To add to the strategy ideas...always try to end your turn around a corner, so they can't shoot you, and use drugs. You can probably score some Psycho from Tubby. Along with stims that should do the trick. In a pinch you could use Jet too.
Those are my impressions, at least. And yes, I'm done taking about it now!
What about just do ALL the quests available before you get to do the gang fight quest-assuming you go the ordinary way; Arroyo>Klamath>Toxic Caves>Den? I can't understand why you have filled up 2pages arguing about a rather EASY TO MEDIUM difficulty fight..
I have always avoided this quest till I get Vic from Metzger and of course having already Sulik with me. Having done all the other quests in Den is obviously a necessity. I usually end up being level 7 when it's time to leave the Den and move on.
Seriously, I find it harder to beat the plants in Hakunin's garden than Tyler's gang..
I have always avoided this quest till I get Vic from Metzger and of course having already Sulik with me. Having done all the other quests in Den is obviously a necessity. I usually end up being level 7 when it's time to leave the Den and move on.
Seriously, I find it harder to beat the plants in Hakunin's garden than Tyler's gang..
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
1on1z3d said:
Oh. Ok. Now I can take you seriously.
TwinkieGorilla said:
You are an angry, angry person. You should have that looked at, you know? Not exactly polite, either, are you?
And 12K posts? Were all of them this... helpful and relevant?
On the plus side, you finally provided enough motivation for me to register a replacement account, I guess.
Anyway, I personally see no problems with the difficulty level of any quests, period.
You know you don't have to do them in the order you (can) get them, right? It's what an RPG is all about to me: you come across a situation you think should be rectified, or a task that should be carried out; but you know you cannot handle it right now. So you grit your teeth, bite your tongue, smile (don't know how you manage all at once) and move on. But after you have more experience and/or better gear you come back and stroll through what would have been certain suicide just a short while ago.
See what I mean?
Well, I doubt TwinkieGorilla would see any kind of sense in anything anyone says, but I'm hoping others can see what I'm getting at, here.
I find Twinkie rater amusing to be honest. He gives both love and anger. 
He may be provocative, but no need to let that get to you.
Yeah, so I was wrong in saying nothing has changed with the church fight (as it's not always been the way it is now), but it's been this same way in the unofficial patch since forever. And I know you (Twinkie) have played that many times, so my point still stands. Nothing has really changed (in a long time). I tried the vanilla way yesterday and I have to say Haen did an excellent job fixing it.
@ Haen
I have to correct you on this:
Granted, if you have Sulik with you his spawn position on the map will be in her way unless you get him to move quickly.
I think the players spawn position should be moved 1 hex away from the church so Lara have a bigger chance of survival (as that is the way it is when you don't have any party members with you).
I don't think it's 100% accurate though, at least it didn't seem like it when I tested it. It's not about how much damage you do, you don't even have to use the more damaging weapon. It checks both item slots, so you can hit a critter for 0 damage with your hands and have a powerful weapon in your other slot. It will still get it's attention. And I still find it retarded that the critter locks on to you and don't re-evaluate the situation once that has happened. If you no longer carry that gun they won't change their target. And I find it especially retarded when they are set to attack the closest in their AI they will still be chasing you when you are far far away.
He may be provocative, but no need to let that get to you.
Yeah, so I was wrong in saying nothing has changed with the church fight (as it's not always been the way it is now), but it's been this same way in the unofficial patch since forever. And I know you (Twinkie) have played that many times, so my point still stands. Nothing has really changed (in a long time). I tried the vanilla way yesterday and I have to say Haen did an excellent job fixing it.
@ Haen
I have to correct you on this:
This simply isn't true. The spear wielding woman is always leading the attack. Only if you or a party member blocks her path will Lara be first.
Granted, if you have Sulik with you his spawn position on the map will be in her way unless you get him to move quickly.
I think the players spawn position should be moved 1 hex away from the church so Lara have a bigger chance of survival (as that is the way it is when you don't have any party members with you).
Thank you! That explains a lot of their seemingly erratic AI behavior. Have you checked this out in the engine and do you have more information?
I don't think it's 100% accurate though, at least it didn't seem like it when I tested it. It's not about how much damage you do, you don't even have to use the more damaging weapon. It checks both item slots, so you can hit a critter for 0 damage with your hands and have a powerful weapon in your other slot. It will still get it's attention. And I still find it retarded that the critter locks on to you and don't re-evaluate the situation once that has happened. If you no longer carry that gun they won't change their target. And I find it especially retarded when they are set to attack the closest in their AI they will still be chasing you when you are far far away.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
AelpirT said:
Oh, cool. So you registered just to say "I have no idea who you are since I'm not really a part of either the NMA community nor The Order, but I've decided because of your posts in this thread that I know all about you, and boy howdy I don't like it and finally...you don't know how to game right so here's my opinion."
Rad.
@Darek: I'm pretty sure I've been complaining about the Lara/Church/Tyler/House fight since the first Killap play-through, so yes the "nothing's changed" is what sparked my initial "This is still broken?" post. Thing is...I could go into bullet detail about why I think necessitating exploits is the exact kind of thing which should be patched OUT but y'all seem to be completely sold on the way it is now. Which means...I suppose...that from now on if I'm playing with the Killap patch I just fucking sell Lara out to Tyler and fuck you guys so there.
I'm willing to apologize for not realizing these fights had been fixed (not modded), but to say everyone is ok with using exploits to play the game is simply not true.TwinkieGorilla said:AelpirT said:
Oh, cool. So you registered just to say "I have no idea who you are since I'm not really a part of either the NMA community nor The Order, but I've decided because of your posts in this thread that I know all about you, and boy howdy I don't like it and finally...you don't know how to game right so here's my opinion."
Rad.
@Darek: I'm pretty sure I've been complaining about the Lara/Church/Tyler/House fight since the first Killap play-through, so yes the "nothing's changed" is what sparked my initial "This is still broken?" post. Thing is...I could go into bullet detail about why I think necessitating exploits is the exact kind of thing which should be patched OUT but y'all seem to be completely sold on the way it is now. Which means...I suppose...that from now on if I'm playing with the Killap patch I just fucking sell Lara out to Tyler and fuck you guys so there.
You can see from various previous posts that we are trying to determine the logic behind npc target selection; the logic that currently some people exploit, and do something about it. Thus potentially removing some current exploit methods.
Hopefully you can see this.
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
Yes, and I appreciate that. But most of what was thrown back at me thus far was a resounding 'YOURE DOING IT WRONG' which is a touch silly to say to somebody who'd gotten used to the way the game reacted pre-patch.
Darek said:
Oops. As you can tell, it's been a long time since I touched Fallout, so my memory may be more than trifle rusty. I think I always had Sulik with me so I didn't notice spear-woman was first. I guess moving 1 spawn hex away works. Alternately, having all of them path to a specific point south west of Marc, pausing a second or two, and then having them mass charge at Marc may be feasible as well.
Darek said:
Once again, it's been a while. I'll have to look into it some more, but between a full-time job, a part-time job, a business start-up, and wedding preparations, I'm stretched quite thin.
But what I seem to recall is that the enemy seem to target whoever is the strongest. However, if something weaker managed to inflict damage on them first, then their attention will shift to their attacker. Or maybe I'm mixing this up with some other game. Who knows?
All I know is that when I first made the fix, I let Lara and her gang attack Marc and the two enemy gangster without help several times (around ten) as a test. Lara's gang won all fights except for one, but conversely only once did Lara's gang come out of the fight without casualties. I can't recall Lara's exact survival rate herself, but it was close to 50/50 for me. Of course, this was without any ammo mods, so if ammo mods are active, I have no clue how this may influence the outcome of the church fight.
On a totally different note, are we still experiencing those display errors with the critical hit message against the player? (i.e. the sentence doesn't show up in the message box).
Cheers,
-- The Haen.
Dravean
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Haenlomal said:
I've been play-testing the newest RP Beta, and I haven't noticed it thus far.
Are you using the default damage formula, my fix, or Haen's mod?Dravean said:
I believe Haen is concerned with determining if it's something either of us have introduced, or is there when using the original code, or even better if it was there with the original and not there with either of our changes. The last possibility if true might help further to identify what the cause is.
Happy testing!
Glovz said:I believe Haen is concerned with determining if it's something either of us have introduced, or is there when using the original code, or even better if it was there with the original and not there with either of our changes. The last possibility if true might help further to identify what the cause is.
Happy testing!
Not quite, my fellow Torontonian.
I ask about it simply because it was the last issue I was looking at before Real Life(tm) got in the way.Even though it's been a while since I last looked at the issue, I'm fairly convinced neither of our ammo fixes are responsible for the behaviour -- both our ammo mods were implemented in an earlier version of sfall before this problem was reported. I was actually looking at the OverrideCriticalTable (or whatever the setting is actually called -- can't remember now) bit of the sfall code, but never got too far on it before I stopped.
Cheers,
-- The Haen.
Darek said:I find Twinkie rater amusing to be honest. He gives both love and anger.
He is the Basil Fawlty of NMA...beloved, but annoying. (Don't bother responding).
So the script was changed after all, who knew...anyway I think the new script works well. 
UniversalWolf
eaten by a grue.
And now for something completely different...
I have one suggestion, and one thing I noticed that may not be working right. I'll start with the latter:
I was in the Den, and had taken a fair amount of damage. Doctor was one of my tagged skills, so I put a doctor bag in my hand and clicked on the button to use it on myself three times in a row. After using it in this way, I experienced a pulsing slowdown of the whole game. Every couple of seconds everything would slow to a crawl, then speed up again, then slow down again, and so on. Since there was obviously something wrong, I saved, quit, and reloaded. All was once again normal.
A suggestion: there are a few places (in particular I'm think of the Cat's Paw) that have some very funny floating dialogue, but it gets muddled because it pops up after a fade-out (which makes a bunch of other floating dialogue pop up), and it's all the same color. If Myron gets laid in the Cat's Paw, his words and the hooker's words should be in colors other than standard yellow so you'd be able to see them.
I have one suggestion, and one thing I noticed that may not be working right. I'll start with the latter:
I was in the Den, and had taken a fair amount of damage. Doctor was one of my tagged skills, so I put a doctor bag in my hand and clicked on the button to use it on myself three times in a row. After using it in this way, I experienced a pulsing slowdown of the whole game. Every couple of seconds everything would slow to a crawl, then speed up again, then slow down again, and so on. Since there was obviously something wrong, I saved, quit, and reloaded. All was once again normal.
A suggestion: there are a few places (in particular I'm think of the Cat's Paw) that have some very funny floating dialogue, but it gets muddled because it pops up after a fade-out (which makes a bunch of other floating dialogue pop up), and it's all the same color. If Myron gets laid in the Cat's Paw, his words and the hooker's words should be in colors other than standard yellow so you'd be able to see them.
I have, so the issue still does remain. Maybe seems less frequent (?) but I haven't pinpointed it down yet. If you were planning on looking into this, Haen, I do appreciate it.Dravean said:
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
.Pixote. said:
You bastard.
Here's something which just happened...just a thought:
Should you be able to use your Pipboy and rest in Vault City after becoming a citizen? I think yes.
*discuss*
Oppen
FIXT n°1 fan
I agree with TG. I don't know why I forget to disturb you about that
It's a big game. Things are easy to forget once you're past them. Also agree; once a citizen, you should be able to sleep in Vault City.
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