Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3

Discussion in 'Fallout General Modding' started by Magnus, May 8, 2008.

  1. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Hi everyone. I'm not dead!

    I'm just playing through the game at the moment with the mod, to see if there are any annoyances that really stand out. If it's not terrible, I probably won't bother fixing it.

    I've realized that the ONLY critters in the game + the RP that are NOT affected by the armor-piercing mechanics in the current version of F2WR are... the Plant Men from the Shi/EPA quest in the RP. That's it. Everything else should have armor that stops JHP and gets somewhat pierced by AP ammo.

    So, the next version won't be as much about armor balancing as I thought. I might even leave the AC mechanics as they are, since they're a royal pain to change what with all the critters that need to be updated.
    What I'll focus on instead is giving late-game enemies AP ammo, and reduce the ammo drops from random encounters.

    But really, the mod is pretty much finished right now. At least it's in its final stages, which is more than I can say for anything else I've ever made.
    • [Like] [Like] x 3
  2. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen First time out of the vault

    Feb 15, 2010
    Could anyone reupload this mod? I've got message file can't be found, after clicking on link from first post, then on "download now" and waiting five seconds.
    Thanks in advance.
  3. Drobovik

    Drobovik Vault Archivarius Modder

    Jun 20, 2011
  4. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    The broken download sounds strange. I just tested the link on the front page (with my phone, even), and it worked. Do you still have the problem, Panzer?

    I made it this strong because there are a lot of enemies that use this against you. The Slavers in NCR come to mind, there's a tough guy there with one of these, but there are also enemies in random encounters that use it. It's one of the few weapons that you still fear with combat armor on, so I want it as powerful as possible. By the time you get it (Modoc I think) it is likely your best single-shot weapon, but then there's the Assault Rifle from Vegeir, and encounters near VC where you find HK CAWSes, an FN FAL in Gecko, loads of Grenades in VC... Basically, when the groovy burst/AOE weapons show up I for one tend to ditch the powerful single shooters and give them to NPCs.

    I agree with you on this, but I have one problem with the gun being as good as it is in vanilla FO2: It feels wrong on so many levels. Here you have a tiny plastic gun that shoots tiny plastic darts with a tiny plastic sound, yet it manages to insta-kill a metal-armored goon? No. NO!

    And I have a wacky, but strangely appealing idea for it. At first I thought I had finally gone insane, but I just can't get the idea out of my head. Please tell me what you think of this:

    The Needler pistol is now a Taser.
    It has an updated item description for the weapon and ammo. It does 12-24 Electrical damage and has a range of 15. Its default ammo (Taser Darts) has no modifiers, and its AP ammo (High-Voltage Taser Darts) has a 1.25 Damage mod, but none of the ammos reduce Electrical DR. Think about it. It's carried ingame by a sheriff, and tasers are usually used by law enforcement. And there are very few Electrical weapons in the game, and only two of them have the awesome crit death animation. Imagine the rays from the setting sun reflecting off your Redding Sheriff's badge as you blast a dart into a perp's eyes and watch as he disintegrates into dust. Now that's some fine policework.

    One of the first things I did in F2WR, way back in '08 I think, was increase the Magnum's cost to 5AP. It made sense on paper. It made sense in my head. The numbers added up.
    It was absolute shite.
    The gun lost all its appeal compared to the Deagle, which had longer range, more ammo and cost less to buy. One of the most awesome guns in Fallout 2, described as "the most powerful handgun in the world", was now a paperweight. I had unwittingly managed to break the entire game, by trying to fix it. I hurried up and put it back to its 4AP cost, and then the game was good again. I increased both of the guns' damage to make FMJ outperform JHP against Metal and Combat Armor (armor-piercing doesn't do much if the gun's damage is very low, because it doesn't break the DT. Case in point, the Minigun).

    So, since the Magnum is so good, why use the Deagle? The answer is, you don't. Enemies do. It is one of the most common weapons you will find pointed at you, and I plan on making its default ammo be the FMJ. This means that enemies with Deagles in random encounters will now use FMJ ammo against you, while enemies in game maps still use whatever they have now. Since FMJ is effective on Metal armor, this means you can't really relax until you have at least Combat armor, and I have further plans for also introducing late-game threats to Combat armor...

    Eesh... I dunno. 15 is really not much. It would make the gun nearly useless for NPCs unless they have the Charge! setting on (they'd miss with it a lot). The upgraded Magnum has an extremely high Proto ID number, which suggests it was added into the game very late, and so I assumed Black Isle had decided to give the Magnum a range of 20 after some playtesting, but forgot to change the un-upgraded gun.

    Prices in the game are absolutely no indicator of how good a gun should be. If they were, Jonny's BB Gun should be better than the 10mm pistol. If the gun wasn't so common I would have changed it to cost even more, but it's a fact that you never buy this gun, and sell it by the dozens, so I can't do that.

    Again, this is a case of changing a gun to make enemies more challenging. Think about Metzger's gang. They all use this. But now they get TWO shots per round instead of one, so they are now very scary. You ditch this gun as soon as you reach the Den because it's still the crappiest one in the game, but the enemies are stuck with them, and I want Metzger to be a REAL challenge. I increased its damage to make it outperform JHP against Metal and Combat armor when loaded with AP ammo (see the note about FMJ vs JHP for the Deagle/Magnum). I believe Tyler has one of these loaded with AP, and he fights Lana who has Metal armor, so now he might even win if you don't stop him, whereas before he would always lose.

    Thanks! Honestly the Mauser now does a bit more damage than it should compared to the 10mm pistol, but you encounter it on mobsters around New Reno, and I want them to at least be able to hurt you at that point (you likely have Metal Mk 2/Combat armor). It does fit in nicely with the Grease/Tommy guns however, and it is realistic that it would have good range and accuracy with some armor penetration, because 9mm Parabellum is one hell of a round.

    There are many weapons that have weird ranges at the moment (I don't know what I was smoking when I gave the Bozar such a short one), I plan on making them a bit more consistent in the next version.

    Not in the vanilla game, but it just felt a bit lackluster compared to the now dangerous Deagles and downright murderous 10mm SMGs after I introduced the JHP/AP ammo changes. The small damage boost puts it back in business, and the reduced hit bonus was to make the scoped one and the Sniper Rifle more of a step-up (the Sniper has 40% and the scoped HR has I think 60% but gets worse when you're closer).

    I think I made the FN FAL stronger because its ammo is more rare than the Assault Rifle's, and you find it later (Gecko vs Modoc), so I wanted a bit more incentive to using it over the AR. But you could be right, I'll have to play with it a bit and see if it's not too overpowered now.

    The HPFA is now basically an M60 with less damage per shot but 50% more bullets, and one of the highest damaging weapons for Small Guns users. It doesn't quite have the armor piercing to take on Navarro patrols (only the Gauss weapons and HK G11E do in the Small Guns tree), and you still won't have enough ammo to use it as much as you'd like, but it will obliterate everything but the Enclave in a metal storm.

    I really don't pay attention to the price when I edit the weapons. I only think about when and where they are acquired, what types of enemies use them, and what sort of gear you normally have access to when you get one. Then when I'm done and the weapon feels right, I set a price on it that is usually in line with what similarly powered weapons cost, or leave it as it is if it doesn't look wrong.

    The Shotgun falls in roughly the same category as the Deagle, in that there are tons of enemies that use it against you, but normally you sell it or give it to Vic rather than use it yourself (because you have the Magnum when you first find one). I found that these enemies would always do less damage to me than the ones with Hunting rifles or Deagles, so I gave it a bit more damage to compensate for its lack of armor penetration. This also makes it more attractive in case I do feel like using it myself, because it's rather unwieldy due to the constant reloading and very short range.

    On the contrary, this change was necessary in order for AP ammo to outperform JHP against Metal armor and above. At 5-12 damage, AP ammo barely does any more damage than JHP against Metal armor, and I want the difference to be more pronounced. The biggest issue with this gun is in fact that no enemies have it loaded with AP ammo, but I plan on changing that in a few maps in the next version.

    Again, screw the price, but look at the damage. The gun was quite good in vanilla FO2, but when I changed AP ammo to make it functional this became like a pocket-sized Bozar. It would obliterate anything short of Enclave guards, and with JHP it would do several hundred points of damage against leather armor, not to mention unarmored targets. It's still powerful, and usually my end gun for Sulik. With AP ammo it's my weapon of choice for clearing out the Military Base, since the mutants there now have stats equal to Combat armor. Wanamingos in Redding also melt like butter against it, but the 10mm smg usually suffices for those.

    The Tommy Gun looks powerful in theory, but its only ammo has awful armor penetration, so by the time you're up against it you will likely take much more damage from Sniper Rifles and Combat Shotguns. I've made the ammo clips 3 times larger (used to be 10, now 30) so that you can actually find enough of it in shops. Therefore, if you want you can use the Tommy or the Grease Gun to terrorize the unarmored townspeople as a Made Man, however it performs worse than the Assault Rifle against even Leather armor and is practically useless against Metal, where the AR really shines even with JHP ammo.

    Thanks! People have complained that this means Navarro is practically unassailable with only Small Guns unless you have the Sniper perk, but I actually think that's a good thing! You should benefit from investing in Big Guns or Energy Weapons (or even Throwing, since EMP grenades now affect Power Armor and Plasma Grenades are ultra-mighty), rather than relying on just one combat skill and having the others just for fun. If you do, you at least need specialized perks for Small Guns.

    Here's how the combat skills work at the moment:
    Small Guns - Kicks ass through most of the game, slightly underpowered at the end.
    Melee Weapons - Makes the early game very easy, the late game quite a bit harder.
    Unarmed - Requires heavy skill point and perk investment, but potentially better than Melee Weapons.
    Big Guns - Useless at first, awesome in the end.
    Energy Weapons - See Big Guns.
    Throwing - Requires heavy investment to be used as primary weapon skill, but is devastating as a support skill with grenades.

    That, and if I had made the Avenger capable of piercing APA it would effectively have become the best gun in the game because of its plentiful ammo, long range, bonus to hit and insane fire rate. It can already pierce Power Armor, which is worn by a few Enclave soldiers, a few Deathclaws (Gruthar) and I believe Melchor the Magnificent.

    It's still the weakest Big Gun. It's hard to find (only prospector encounters around Redding have it) and requires becoming a Made Man to buy, hard to get enough ammo for and quite inaccurate (no hit bonus) for a starting Big Gun user, plus it has less range and damage than the Light Support Weapon. It does have 5 bursts per reload compared to the LSW which has only 3, but as long as you position yourself right you shouldn't need to reload before everyone's dead anyway. I increased its stats only so that it would feel "big" compared to the FN FAL and Assault Rifle.

    If you're crazy about Big Guns this will probably be your first one. You can hover around Redding until you find it, and there's ammo to buy for it in Gecko.
    The LSW on the other hand requires a trip to New Reno for the Electronic Lockpick, and then repairing the generator in the Toxic Caves to defeat the rocketbot. However, neither of these do anything against Horrigan, so it's likely you'll pick up the Bozar and definitely the Rocket Launcher before heading off to the Enclave.

    Yeah, I have no clue why the Bozar has that range. I must have been on mushrooms when I made it. I'll give it a more appropriate one when I go over the ranges for all the weapons, and probably increase its damage a bit as well. It has to be the king of Big Guns, otherwise it just won't feel right.

    Navarro patrols also use Laser Pistols, so I thought I'd catch two flies in one swat by speeding up the pistol. Remember, critters would need an AG of 10 in order to get two shots with a 5AP weapon, which might be okay for top-trained soldiers but a bit unrealistic for every drunk slaver and thug who joins up with Metzger/Salvatore. 1400 is still 200 more than a Combat Shotgun, and is actually quite expensive for a pistol, I believe I even reduced the price. Right now the weapon performs roughly like a 4AP version of the 14mm Pistol but with more range, and I quite like it that way. Its contender is the Plasma Pistol, which does much more damage at the cost of much shorter range.

    Now, the reason why I did this is partly because of the item description (the only change mentioned in the Turbo Plasma Rifle is that it's faster, not more powerful), but also because Super Mutants in the Master's Army encounters carry Plasma Rifles. Since the rifles are now more powerful, those mutants are now more dangerous! Remember, the game can never get too hard!
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  5. NovaRain

    NovaRain Casual Modder Modder Moderator

    Mar 10, 2007
    The problem is GameFront blocks many countries from downloading files.
    For example, people living in Asia like me can kiss files on GameFront goodbye.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  6. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Oh! I'll switch providers then. Might just use OneDrive. Thanks for the headsup!

    Here is the status of what's planned for v2.3:

    Making an installer for the mod, so you won't have to copy files manually.

    Lit Flares do 2-9 Fire damage, have a secondary Thrust attack, cost 3 AP to thrust and 2 to throw. They have the Flameboy perk, which reduces the damage points needed to see the overkill death animation to 15, so with a good critical throw it is now possible to roast people with Flares.

    Unlit Flares now cost 2 AP to throw, but are otherwise unchanged.

    Minerals have joined the battle, and the denser ones can be quite lethal if you're strong enough to wield them:
    Rocks do 3-4 damage and cost 2AP to throw. They have a max throwing range of 24 hexes.
    Gold Nuggets and Uranium Ore do 14-16 damage, and require a Strength of 6 to wield. They cost 4AP to punch with and 3 to throw. They have a Throwing range of 21 hexes.
    Refined Uranium Ore does 20-23 damage, requires a Strength of 7 to wield, costs 4AP to punch with and 4 to throw. It has a Throwing range of 18 hexes and a Knockback effect on the punches. You know you always wanted to smash your opponents with the power of heavy metal.

    Assault Rifles and Miniguns are now loaded with AP ammo by default. This affects what the weapons will be loaded with in shops and what ammo enemies will use in random encounters, but not the weapons held by people in the game maps, such as Marcus's minigun or the Raiders' assault rifles. The reason for this change is that by the time you're facing those weapons in random encounters you are most likely decked out in Metal or Combat armor, and that means you'll laugh away the JHP shots they fire at you.

    The Needler Pistol has been renamed to Taser. It does 18-24 points of Electrical damage, but does not have the Penetrate perk and has a shortened range of 15 hexes. Its normal ammo has been renamed to Taser Cartridge, and has no modifiers. Its AP ammo has been renamed to HV Taser Cartridge and has an AC modifier of -10 and a Damage mod of 5/4, which means it does 25% more damage and is easier to hit with, to make up for its rarity. The Taser now costs $1600. The updated descriptions are below, I've tried to stay close to the originals.

    "You suspect this Bringham Taser was once used by police officers to pacify suspects that resisted arrest. It fires a small dart which sends a strong electric current into the target through a wire."

    "This cartridge appears to be ammo for the Bringham Taser. Each "bullet" is actually a small dart connected to a high voltage battery by an ultra-thin conductive wire."

    High Voltage Ammo:
    "This cartridge appears to be experimental military-grade ammo for the Bringham Taser. It features a high velocity propellant to facilitate use against moving targets, and an overcharged battery for increased lethality."

    Some weapon ranges have been changed, for balance and consistency:

    The Desert Eagle has a range of 27.

    The 14mm pistol has a range of 30.

    The Assault Rifle has a range of 32 single shot and 27 burst.

    The Hunting Rifle has a range of 35.

    The Bozar does 45-76 damage and has a range of 50.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  7. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    Great to see you back in action, Magnus. These forums haven't been so lively these past couple years, but I suspects things will pick up a bit with the pending release of Fallout 4 causing new players to investigate the old games.

    I like what I'm reading. The taser is an interesting change. I look forward to trying this out.
  8. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Thanks! Can't say I'm thrilled to see Bethesda make another Fallout, but no doubt they'll have learned from their past mistakes and make it turn-based and isometric this time, and hire Obsidian to write the dialogue.


    I just found out how to make Dynamite throwable. Awesome.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  9. BigBadPig

    BigBadPig First time out of the vault

    Jan 14, 2008
    Promises, promises again... Just kidding:).
    Looking good, and I'm looking forward to this.
    Imagine that, I swing by here every couple of... oh well, let's be politically correct... every couple of months... and what do you know?:)
    Anyway, thanks for NOT vanishing in the wastes, Magnus:).

    Crapages, almost forgot; wanted to remind, politely of course: ...F2RP?.. compatibility?.. just in case:).
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015
  10. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    You can use this mod with the RP 2.3.3 and it works just fine, except the worldmap.txt. I think the only critters that don't get the armor changes are the plant men in the new Shi/EPA quest, but that's not a big deal.

    I'm done with 80% of the next version. I've made an automated installer that works well, and finished the weapons changes. The remaining bit is making a worldmap.txt for the megamod, Killap's Rp/UP and the unmodded game, which might take a while, but will be worth it. I know what I'm going to change, I just have to actually do it. Then I'll update the installer so that it includes the worldmap.txt, and also patches the item descriptions file without breaking compatibility.

    I'm bad with promises, so I won't say it'll be done soon, but there isn't much left.
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  11. Dravean

    Dravean Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Mar 6, 2005
    This news is more rad than a radscorpion. Thanks for the update.
  12. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Something strange happened to me, Magnus! I've picked up one stack of 10mm AP bullets in Den - 24 bullets appeared in my inventory. I've tried to reload 10mm pistol with them and suddenly there's just 6 bullets left in my inventory + 12 bullets loaded in pistol. After unloading the pistol there's just 18 bullets instead of 24, it looks like 6 bullets simply disappeared! We and I think some strong magic is cheating on us..

    (clean F2 + RP 2.3.3 + WR 2.2; I've followed that 10 steps install guide in your readme very precisely, no YAMM/Glovz fix or any other ammo mod installed except yours)
  13. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Do you have the Scarce Ammo folder installed? It cuts ammo stacks in half, but this isn't displayed correctly until you either reload a weapon with it, or stack it with similar ammo.
    If you had 6 bullets in your pistol, and then picked up a stack of 24 bullets, then 12 of those bullets would evaporate when you reload the gun, and you would be left with 18.
    Same if you unloaded the gun while the 24 bullets were in your inventory, then the ammo count would also get recalculated to 18.

    I have no idea what happened if your gun was empty though.

    And I hope you did not install the Worldmap.txt, as it is woefully outdated!
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  14. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    No, I did put the Items/Ammo/Unfair in, because I'm as badass as you!

    Ah, that's it! Thanks, I was confused a little.

    Shit, of course I did! I blew it. :mrgreen:
    Should I wait for your next update, or can I just restore old worldmap.txt (I had backed it up) and continue?
  15. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    You can restore the backed up worldmap.txt and continue.
    Actually I don't know if it's compatible with the newest RP or not. Maybe you'll just miss out on some Kaga encounters, or the EPA, or the special encounter after you beat the game. But I definitely don't recommend using it.

    I've finally got around to using sfall's hook scripts properly. Right now I'm enjoying the utterly epic sensation of sawing people in half with a Ripper. I'll need to test this some more however, to make sure it isn't bugged.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
    • [Like] [Like] x 1
  16. teukros

    teukros It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Sep 5, 2010
    You have a Ripper that... rips??? Oh I have GOT to get me one of those! :mrgreen:
  17. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Yes, and a cattle prod that electrocutes, a power fist that blows holes in people, etc.

    The hook scripts in sfall are much more advanced now than last time I looked into them, I feel like a kid in a candy store. Currently you have to do at least 50 damage (or have bloody mess) in order to see those anims, which I think is fair. I could lower it, but then I can't check if the critter actually has the animation, and then the game will freeze if it tries to play, say a fiery dancing death on a Robot.

    I can raise the needed damage though, which is my plan for the Super Sledge (more than 75 damage = gore explosion!)
  18. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Found a bug! There's Mauser loaded with .223 FMJ on second level of Vault 15 instead of usual cal.223 pistol. The Mauser cannot be reloaded with .223 ammo though and according to the description it's still supposed to be a 9mm gun, so I guess this is not what you've planned Magnus.

    Nuff said, I totally love 14mm Sig in your mod. What a wonderful carnage! :twisted:
  19. Magnus

    Magnus Water Chip? Been There, Done That

    Dec 6, 2007
    Yes, I've known about this for a while. I'm planning on releasing a map file that fixes this (and a few other things in V15), but it's not my highest priority just now.

    And thank you! It always annoyed me how pathetic it was in the original game, with how big and scary it looks. The only regular pistol that beats it now is the .223, but you only find one of those. Hope you have fun with it!
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
  20. valcik

    valcik So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs

    Dec 20, 2008
    Sure I do, it's a blast. I had really hard time (on normal diff.) early in the game, any poor slaver in random encounter scored ~25-30HP on me with 9mm pistol, so I had to run for my life all the time. Also, that Unfair ammo setting makes me count every bullet, I'm actually forced to buy ammo for my favorite gun on any occassion. This is why I hold MegaMod in high regard too, that constant shortage makes for harsh and unforgiving wasteland as it should be in post-apo setting.

    Just one suggestion so far - I think shotgun shells deserve -10 or -20 AC modifier instead of zero. It makes sense, because those pellets packed in shell are spreaded in cone, so each shot is covering bigger area than a solid bullet. Not a biggie for me though, just sayin'