Fallout 2 mod Fallout 2: Weapons Redone v2.3
- Thread starter Magnus
- Start date
Ravager69 said:
Aye, Sulik kicks ass with a Switchblade. He seems to get a critical every third stab or so, and almost always a knockdown. Melee attacks do add a 5% to your critical chance, though, not many people know this.
Screw this, I'm double posting. To all moderators out there: I only do this each time I announce a new release. This is one of those times.
In v1.7, the Bozar has turned into the Gauss Rifle's bigger, meaner cousin with a prison record, though it's much heavier and has shorter range. The Needler has gone through the tweak-o-matic, the Ripper is horribly realistic and some other stuff has been done. Hope it looks good, 'cause it looks like this is one of the very last versions of F2WR.
Changes in v1.7:
The previously overlooked Needler Pistol does 12-18 damage, has a range of 20 and an AP cost of 4. It also has a base price of 1300 instead of 2200.
The Bozar has a 40% bonus to hit and uses 14mmAP, an ammo type that provides Gauss-esque armor penetration. This ammo is also much heavier than .223FMJ, and therefore limits the mighty weapon's range to 35 hexes.
All grenades except Molotovs weigh 2 pounds. 14mmAP ammo also weighs 2 pounds.
Both Flamers do 55-90 damage and no longer have a 20% bonus to hit. Instead, they have the same chance to hit in light and darkness, like the upgraded FN FAL.
The Bozar has a base price of 5000 and the Avenger has the default base price of 5500.
The 14mm Pistol does 15-20 damage, because it's a huge, large, big and scary pistol.
The Light Support Weapon and Bozar have swapped ID numbers and thus their placements in the game are inversed, to circumvent some ugly business in the Toxic Caves that was introduced by the Bozar ammo change.
The M60 and the Light Support Weapon sound like Assault Rifles instead of Miniguns, because the latter sound caused their single-shot modes to fire in complete silence. Also, because the burst sound business appears to be hardwired, those weapons now have Single Shot as their primary attack mode and Burst as their secondary.
Needler ammo comes in clips of 20.
**REMOVED**Added a Low-Tech subfolder, "5a. Laser Ripper", which contains a Ripper that does not Penetrate, but deals Laser damage, which means you can cut people in half with it, Leatherface-style. This Ripper is included in the "All" folder.
Found and cleaned up an oversight in the spreadsheet damage values given for the Needler Pistol. Also cleaned up some stuff in the readme.
EDIT: Great, playtested this for about 30 seconds and already discovered two big, stinking bugs. Namely, the Ripper Laser thing did not work and the Avenger had somehow got the M60 sound change. They're both fixed now, and since I doubt anyone downloaded the buggy version that was up for 20 minutes, I won't make a fuss about it.
In v1.7, the Bozar has turned into the Gauss Rifle's bigger, meaner cousin with a prison record, though it's much heavier and has shorter range. The Needler has gone through the tweak-o-matic, the Ripper is horribly realistic and some other stuff has been done. Hope it looks good, 'cause it looks like this is one of the very last versions of F2WR.
Changes in v1.7:
The previously overlooked Needler Pistol does 12-18 damage, has a range of 20 and an AP cost of 4. It also has a base price of 1300 instead of 2200.
The Bozar has a 40% bonus to hit and uses 14mmAP, an ammo type that provides Gauss-esque armor penetration. This ammo is also much heavier than .223FMJ, and therefore limits the mighty weapon's range to 35 hexes.
All grenades except Molotovs weigh 2 pounds. 14mmAP ammo also weighs 2 pounds.
Both Flamers do 55-90 damage and no longer have a 20% bonus to hit. Instead, they have the same chance to hit in light and darkness, like the upgraded FN FAL.
The Bozar has a base price of 5000 and the Avenger has the default base price of 5500.
The 14mm Pistol does 15-20 damage, because it's a huge, large, big and scary pistol.
The Light Support Weapon and Bozar have swapped ID numbers and thus their placements in the game are inversed, to circumvent some ugly business in the Toxic Caves that was introduced by the Bozar ammo change.
The M60 and the Light Support Weapon sound like Assault Rifles instead of Miniguns, because the latter sound caused their single-shot modes to fire in complete silence. Also, because the burst sound business appears to be hardwired, those weapons now have Single Shot as their primary attack mode and Burst as their secondary.
Needler ammo comes in clips of 20.
**REMOVED**Added a Low-Tech subfolder, "5a. Laser Ripper", which contains a Ripper that does not Penetrate, but deals Laser damage, which means you can cut people in half with it, Leatherface-style. This Ripper is included in the "All" folder.
Found and cleaned up an oversight in the spreadsheet damage values given for the Needler Pistol. Also cleaned up some stuff in the readme.
EDIT: Great, playtested this for about 30 seconds and already discovered two big, stinking bugs. Namely, the Ripper Laser thing did not work and the Avenger had somehow got the M60 sound change. They're both fixed now, and since I doubt anyone downloaded the buggy version that was up for 20 minutes, I won't make a fuss about it.
GuybrushBR
First time out of the vault
I am not sure if it's a bug ... When I choose the trait "finesse" the damage becomes ridiculous, the critical damage is alright but the normal sucks.
I do 1 damage with a 10 mm pistol JHP ammo against silver geckos. Finesse does lower the damage in fallout standard version but not like that.
Am I Right ?
I do 1 damage with a 10 mm pistol JHP ammo against silver geckos. Finesse does lower the damage in fallout standard version but not like that.
Am I Right ?
encinodude
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Finesse makes your normal damage suck and increases your critical damage.
encinodude said:
No, it doesn't. Finesse just makes you score a lot more criticals. When you choose the Finesse trait with F2WR installed, there are two things to remember:
Regular hits with JHP ammo do a bit less damage than in unmodded Fallout 2.
Critical hits with JHP ammo do a lot more damage than in unmodded Fallout 2.
Therefore, Finesse theoretically works like this: Let's say you're waving a .44 Magnum in someone's face, and your critical hit chance is 15%. That basically means you have a 15% chance to do damage to your enemy, since regular attacks do 1 feeble point. But when you actually do score a critical, you do about 60-100 damage (very loosely calculated in my head) to the poor sod, which equals to about five regular shots with a Magnum, depending on armor type.
Thus Finesse is really good when you're up against One Big Bad Boss, but really bad when you're being swarmed by a Fuckload Of Irritating Random Encounter Trash, by far the most common scenario in Fallout 2, which is why my gut feeling says "No" whenever I highlight Finesse in the character creation screen.
encinodude
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Exactly what I would've meant if I had worded it correctly.
Changes in v1.8, which is still in production:
Goris' minimum damage has been increased from 3 to 10, meaning he always does at least 10 damage before armor modifiers are applied, and usually a lot more. I could increase regular deathclaw damage as well, but that would go beyond this mod's scope.
The Gatling Laser does 20-40 damage in both energy folders.
The M60 spits out 12 bullets per burst instead of 10.
Anybody got any more good ideas? Please post them here.
I'm thinking about swapping the 14mm Pistol with the Mauser, along with their ammos (jeez, what a mess), so that the Mauser would finally become useful and available early, and that the 14mm Pistol, 14mm AP ammo and the 14mm Bozar would all be available in one place, NCR.
Goris' minimum damage has been increased from 3 to 10, meaning he always does at least 10 damage before armor modifiers are applied, and usually a lot more. I could increase regular deathclaw damage as well, but that would go beyond this mod's scope.
The Gatling Laser does 20-40 damage in both energy folders.
The M60 spits out 12 bullets per burst instead of 10.
Anybody got any more good ideas? Please post them here.
I'm thinking about swapping the 14mm Pistol with the Mauser, along with their ammos (jeez, what a mess), so that the Mauser would finally become useful and available early, and that the 14mm Pistol, 14mm AP ammo and the 14mm Bozar would all be available in one place, NCR.
Dravean
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Magnus said:
Nice. That'd certainly make Goris a contender for being one of the better NPCs.
Goris is like a doped-up Sulik with a Mega Power Fist. He doesn't do quite as much damage, but he has Penetrate, which the Power Fist does not. My problem is that he misses a lot, but I guess that goes away when he levels a bit.
Y'know, I've been thinking about something. I just saw Mad Max 1 and 2, and I got an idea. What if I reduced all ammo and fuel clip sizes to about 1/4 of their current levels? That would actually make ammo and fuel pretty scarce, and would also make those ammo stashes in places like the Toxic Caves feel a lot more rewarding. Imagine wearing Combat Leather Armor and a Sawnoff Shotgun with only a few shells left, having Dogmeat in your party and running into an enemy with a 9mmMauser, just like in Mad Max 1
Anyone feel good about this?
EDIT: On the other hand, it would perhaps be a bit annoying that weapons are strewn around like sticks and ammo is so scarce. Perhaps this is just realistic, though.
Y'know, I've been thinking about something. I just saw Mad Max 1 and 2, and I got an idea. What if I reduced all ammo and fuel clip sizes to about 1/4 of their current levels? That would actually make ammo and fuel pretty scarce, and would also make those ammo stashes in places like the Toxic Caves feel a lot more rewarding. Imagine wearing Combat Leather Armor and a Sawnoff Shotgun with only a few shells left, having Dogmeat in your party and running into an enemy with a 9mmMauser, just like in Mad Max 1
Anyone feel good about this?
EDIT: On the other hand, it would perhaps be a bit annoying that weapons are strewn around like sticks and ammo is so scarce. Perhaps this is just realistic, though.
encinodude
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Maybe half would be a reasonable idea. I agree that it's too easy to find ammo lying around, but I don't know about reducing it to 1/4. Maybe make that optional?
Magnus said:
Very interesting idea. I like it! I agree 1/2 might be a little less catastrophic. But what about weapons that fire an entire clip in one burst (like the FN FAL) unless you modify how many bullets the burst's fire, most weapons would empty their entire reduced capacity clips.
But to be honest, i think most FO players wouldn't like it. Most gamers don't like it when things are made harder for them. I would suggest putting an optional reduced ammo folder in F2WR.
Good thinking Batman.
encinodude
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Magnus said:
Damn it, just noticed this now. You should definitely update version numbers if you make changes like this (eg. 1.7.1). I know it seems troublesome, but I'm sure more people download this mod than you think. What a fucking shame I can't actually cut people in half with the Ripper
Touquet
Look, Ma! Two Heads!
Josan12 said:
Agree with them, 1/2 is quite better because always running for ammo could be frustrating when you are in a quest.
Minigun Jim
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Magnus said:
This is one of the things in the New Arroyo Mod in the Megamod. The major problem with it is that as soon as you get to areas wheere you can find plenty of ammo anyway, the limiting factor becomes the weight of the ammunition, not the scarcity. Reducing the clip size has the effect of you needing to carry twice as many units of ammo to be effective.
It also, IMO doesn't fit with the feel of FO2 as much as for FO1. Fallout 2's world has more developed areas.
A small, stable state (NCR), that has acquired high-tech weapons for its law enforcement since FO1 (I guess off BoS).
Other stable communities with large supplies of goods (VC, SF)
Mining operations for uranium and gold, so other metals would likely be mined too, e.g lead for bullets.
Large, well-armed groups of fighters (Bishops's Mercs, the NCR Rangers, VC Patrols) with good stores of ammunition and weapons.
Multiple skilled gunsmiths (Eldrige's basement guy, Vic's daughter, Skeeter)
FO1 had nothing more than shantytowns. Even the Hub was just a big one of those, nothing like VC or Shady Sands' state of development.
Earlier, yes, ammo could be more scarce, but once you reach New Reno, you're getting more to the "developed" areas of the waste, with industry returning.
I enjoy playing Fallout 2 + RP 1.2 and F2WR 1.7 but there are two things I`m slightly disappointed with. Adding throw attack instead of swing attack is one of that issues. Knife swing was one of my fav attack in previous F2 attampts. Aint nothing better then a critical slash towards the opponents eyes. Combat knife is designed to inflict both slashed and pierced damages while throwing is a measure of last resort. Why ? Try hitting target with solid, fixed blade within the distance of 3-8 meters. Well, good luck. Why would I throw away my knife to hit my opponent for 5 or less damge ? In my opinion throw attacks are very crappy and non-damage effective unless you throw a grenade of course 
Second thing I completely dont understand damages dealt with 5mm HP ammo. I`m not even able to put a scratch on unnarmed addicts from Den, rats and other harmless non combatants while firing with HPs. What the .. ? Do they wear armor or something ? OK. 5-10 shots fired, all for non damage but 11th was deadly for non damage and I blasted half of poor addicts body off (mega critical for non damage:/).
I have some shooting expierience I they always been telling me that HP ammo is designed to deliver maximum internal damage to non armored target. Hitting someone with a single 9x18mm bullet would smash his half of his head into caesars salad while single .45 HP shot from 3m didn`t manage to rumple an old steel infantry helmet. So what`s wrong with HP ammo in this mod or which targets are the best to demonstate the effect of HP ammo in Fallout 2? because for now I find 5mmFMJ ammo both effective on non armored and armored target.
Overall it`s 8/10. I enjoy playing with this mod, you did an almost excellent job on weapons, armors and ammo tweaking their values. I play on rough diff. and sometimes when you`re in a heat it`s better to run away then become a target practice for the bunch of 10 angry highwaymen. I hope you`ll do something about those knives when you relase next version of this mod, maybe an alternative config for swing/throw or going back to vanilla solution, where combat knife is for hth while throwing knife gives you an opportunity to perform a knife throw.
Second thing I completely dont understand damages dealt with 5mm HP ammo. I`m not even able to put a scratch on unnarmed addicts from Den, rats and other harmless non combatants while firing with HPs. What the .. ? Do they wear armor or something ? OK. 5-10 shots fired, all for non damage but 11th was deadly for non damage and I blasted half of poor addicts body off (mega critical for non damage:/).
I have some shooting expierience I they always been telling me that HP ammo is designed to deliver maximum internal damage to non armored target. Hitting someone with a single 9x18mm bullet would smash his half of his head into caesars salad while single .45 HP shot from 3m didn`t manage to rumple an old steel infantry helmet. So what`s wrong with HP ammo in this mod or which targets are the best to demonstate the effect of HP ammo in Fallout 2? because for now I find 5mmFMJ ammo both effective on non armored and armored target.
Overall it`s 8/10. I enjoy playing with this mod, you did an almost excellent job on weapons, armors and ammo tweaking their values. I play on rough diff. and sometimes when you`re in a heat it`s better to run away then become a target practice for the bunch of 10 angry highwaymen. I hope you`ll do something about those knives when you relase next version of this mod, maybe an alternative config for swing/throw or going back to vanilla solution, where combat knife is for hth while throwing knife gives you an opportunity to perform a knife throw.
Sorkvild said:I enjoy playing Fallout 2 + RP 1.2 and F2WR 1.7 but there are two things I`m slightly disappointed with. Adding throw attack instead of swing attack is one of that issues. Knife swing was one of my fav attack in previous F2 attampts. Aint nothing better then a critical slash towards the opponents eyes. Combat knife is designed to inflict both slashed and pierced damages while throwing is a measure of last resort. Why ? Try hitting target with solid, fixed blade within the distance of 3-8 meters. Well, good luck. Why would I throw away my knife to hit my opponent for 5 or less damge ? In my opinion throw attacks are very crappy and non-damage effective unless you throw a grenade of course
Second thing I completely dont understand damages dealt with 5mm HP ammo. I`m not even able to put a scratch on unnarmed addicts from Den, rats and other harmless non combatants while firing with HPs. What the .. ? Do they wear armor or something ? OK. 5-10 shots fired, all for non damage but 11th was deadly for non damage and I blasted half of poor addicts body off (mega critical for non damage:/).
I have some shooting expierience I they always been telling me that HP ammo is designed to deliver maximum internal damage to non armored target. Hitting someone with a single 9x18mm bullet would smash his half of his head into caesars salad while single .45 HP shot from 3m didn`t manage to rumple an old steel infantry helmet. So what`s wrong with HP ammo in this mod or which targets are the best to demonstate the effect of HP ammo in Fallout 2? because for now I find 5mmFMJ ammo both effective on non armored and armored target.
Overall it`s 8/10. I enjoy playing with this mod, you did an almost excellent job on weapons, armors and ammo tweaking their values. I play on rough diff. and sometimes when you`re in a heat it`s better to run away then become a target practice for the bunch of 10 angry highwaymen. I hope you`ll do something about those knives when you relase next version of this mod, maybe an alternative config for swing/throw or going back to vanilla solution, where combat knife is for hth while throwing knife gives you an opportunity to perform a knife throw.
All right, for the Throwing, I'll agree with the Combat Knives being unwieldy to throw. But you know, the game makes absolutely no difference between Swing and Thrust in terms of damage/armor penetration/etc, it's just the character animation that changes, and the Throwing skill is seriously underpowered. I have thought about making Combat Knives Melee again, especially since the Throwing Knives do about as much damage, but I'll keep them as they are for now. Wakizashi Blades will definitely stay throwable.
But the ammo issues, for the love of God:
Firstly, what game are you playing? HP ammo and 5mmFMJ doesn't exist in Fallout 2. I haven't touched .45 caliber either, perhaps you are thinking of .44 Magnum? And 9x18mm ammo is quite powerful now, it's just the Mauser's stats that aren't very good.
Secondly, Make SURE That You Have Turned Glovz' AP Ammo Mod OFF In The Bottom Of The Ddraw.Ini File In Your Fallout 2 Folder! (tm) I am starting to wonder if this is turned on by default. If you set it to something else than 0, JHP ammo will suck.
Thirdly, if you have chosen the Finesse trait, then this is how Finesse works in unmodded Fallout 2, and there's nothing I can do about that.
Not to sound grumpy or trying to be rude or anything here, but at least read the readme and check the included spreadsheet in F2WR before posting here. I mean it. I've made this entire mod by myself, the least you can do is to read up on it before complaining about it. Ok?
To everybody else, scratch the ammo reductions for now. If I were to do this realistically, I might as well add weight to your Money.
Minigun Jim
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Magnus said:
encinodude
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Magnus said:
Do you know how long wakizashi are? Pretty damn long to be thrown, for sure. They are simply not practical throwing weapons. Because the game's animators were lazy or were on a tight schedule, they didn't animate a proper "samurai short sword" animation. But that's what it is. A samurai short sword. Like 20-25 inches long.