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Discussion in 'General Fallout Discussion' started by Proletären, Jan 9, 2022.
Has something happened to the postman?
You can play them in any order so that's fine. Start by giving your impressions of Fallout 2 if you will!
Someone contacted Toront saying that Postman had been the victim of a hit and run and passed away.
I can't even take that in. If it's true then that's so incredibly sad that I don't know what.
I've finished the game. I will try to put down my thoughts this afternoon.
I decided to kill the Colonel, in the walkthrough it says that you can get sergeant Graves as a companion by doing that but I couldn't find him, only the robot.
He should be lying on the final level in the big meeting room above the storage room. He joins if you untie him.
I should be able to finish my Kill Everyone of Fallout 1 today (still have to get the fisherman and his son plus Bob the car salesman).
Thanks! I wasn't thorough enough. He says something about automated turrets that he could activate. Do you know where that computer is?
He also says that we should blow the secret level of the vault but that will destroy the entire vault. Since Vault 8 is still present in Fallout 2 I guess the secret level didn't get blown up.
Secret level. If you have the device in your inventory and use the computer you get the option to activate them.
It only destroys the secret level, but the PC can't escape and has to sacrifice himself.
Blow up the lab- good ending, kill the attackers- neutral, hand over the device- bad.
Ok, I thought so but it was not entirely clear to me. It's a bit odd that you need the mysterious device to activate Vault defences is it not?
Gotcha! Sergeant Graves says it will blow the entire vault so that made me confused. But he probably only means the secret level then.
What Sergeant Graves says is a bit contradictory with the rest.
-Going into the game what are you looking forward to?
I've only heard good things about Fallout: Nevada and I've always wanted to try it. Having the setting be the early days of Vault City is a very compelling idea. I haven't heard anything good about the main quest, however I still like to have play through it and hope it will be stimulating to think about how it could have been done differently. I guess I'm in for the side quests and the setting.
I was keeping an I out for Tycho's father but I didn’t find him. That would have been a nice tie-in to Fallout 1.
-What's your thoughts on the main quest in Nevada?
Spoiler: Summary with spoilers
If I understood it correctly there was a government vault where the top leadership of the United States evacuated to keep safe. The President and the Vice President were there. For some reason the Nuka Cola that you could get from vault replicators contained chemicals that would strengthen the individual, however if you drank too much you would start acting savagely. When fights erupted they had to limit the access to Nuka Cola. A fight erupted and the President was hit in the head so hard it separated from the body. A doctor managed to save the Presidents head. Being plugged into the vault's systems the President's head eventually managed to take control over the vault which freaked everyone out. There was a riot where 80% of the vault population managed to flee the vault, but 20% were killed by turrets controlled by the President's head. The Vice Presidents and others left for the Poseidon Oil rig, joining the Enclave. The doctor who saved the president's head and kept it alive eventually became known as the Reaper. There must have been a split between the Reaper and the Enclave, right?
In Vault 8 there was a secret cloning facility and the bodies were called health insurances. I take it they were used so that the top government people could live forever, but how? The Overseer was in on the deal though and knew how to use the mysterious device that is fought for during the story. It must have been the Enclave who used the clones. The Reaper contracted a biker named Jay Kukish to steal the mysterious device that was necessary for the cloning facility. When the biker stole it he entered the Vault with your body as an entrance ticket. He also talked with the overseer for a long while before leaving.
When you’re up on your legs again you’re sent to find the biker and the device. But before that you get to know that you were missing from the vault for a few months. You had been subjected to advanced brain surgery and your brain was like that in a two year old. Had the Reaper done surgery on you? Doctor Wilmouth of Vault 8 had given you a new personality for some reason when he tried to restore your brain.
While looking for the biker you find out that Vault 8 has been spied upon through a network of pre-war military facilities. Eventually Jay Kukish traps you in Hawthorne military base and gives you the device. It's not clear why but he's tired of it for some reason. For some unknown reason he decided to not hand the device over to his employer, instead he went to Area 51 to find out more about it. He doesn’t give you any valuable information though, instead he just recommends you take a trip to Area 51 to see for yourself (I don't remember what you learnt in Area 51). Then the troops of his employer attack.
When you return to Vault 8 the Overseer has just been kidnapped. You track him to a secret government Vault where the American President and other government officials once lived. There you find the Overseer alive and also Jay Kukish’s dead body, his employer got to him eventually. You find out about the cloning facility in Vault 8 and the President's head. When you leave the Vault you encounter the Reaper who asks about the device. He said he killed the Overseer because he knew how to use the device. Otherwise he was rather condescending and didn't want to explain things. But it was clear he wanted pure bodies for some reason. I didn't have it on me so I don't know if you can give it to him. Then you kill him.
After that Vault 8 gets invaded by a group that I think is the Enclave. They were led by a Colonel of the United States Government Armed Forces and they talked about the residents of Vault 8 as health insurances, just like the President did. It appears that the plot behind the main quest was a fight between the Reaper and the Enclave about who should get the clones. The soldiers used by the Colonel were all clones. Were all residents of Vault 8 clones? And was that the reason they couldn’t learn about sex? They weren’t to learn how people were made naturally. Your character can ask stupid questions about sex in some dialogues like with Jasmine in Black Rock.
When you free sergeant Graves he tells you “the council was in on it” which I take means the leadership of the Vault along with the Overseer. You can then either blow the cloning facility (sacrificing yourself) or initiate a purge of the hostiles in the vault. The last option is not entirely clear to me how it is supposed to work but the mysterious device is needed for some reason. Then the game ends.
Sorry for the long summary. Please correct me on any point where I got something wrong.
It was a bit difficult for me to follow the different plot points and what the reasons were for different events in the story. What motivated Jay Kukish? I do believe things would become clearer to me with another playthrough where I could really pay attention to details but since this was my first time with the game things are still a bit unclear. However the main quests of Fallout 1 and 2 are crystal clear with no ambiguity as to what is happening so I do think this plot needs some work.
Why did the Reaper want the device? Was part of your brain used to keep the President alive? Who invaded Vault 8 by the end?
Man I would loved to have heard Atomic Postmans thoughts on the Fallout: Nevada main quest!
-How would you improve it if you were to re-write?
If I were to keep the current main quest then I would make it clearer what’s going on. I would also add more options for player agency. For example you have very few dialogue options when you speak to the President's head and others. What motivates the different characters in the main quest? The player is driven by the quest instead of the player taking the lead. It would be nice to have player agency in the main quest instead of being steered by the turn of events.
However if I can think big I would replace the current main quest with a new one. I would instead have the game focused on Vault 8 and how it is slowly being transformed into the Vault City we know from Fallout 2. By the time the game starts they would already have used the GECK and started to build a settlement outside of the vault. However much work still needs to be done and there are wasteland menaces that could threaten its existence.
In both Fallout 1 and 2 you are sent out to get something that’s necessary for the survival of your group. Instead of a mysterious device maybe they would send you to find Hawthorne military base and to bring some turrets and military equipment so that Vault City can build a defensive perimeter to counter aggressive wasteland groups. You wouldn’t know the location of Hawthorne from the start and you would probably end up in Reno before finding it. If there’s a looming raider attack on Vault 8 then this quest would be timed. You get the turrets and other materials for Vault 8. Then after Vault 8 has fended off the attackers another threat would reveal itself, in Fallout 1 it’s the Master’s army and in Fallout 2 it’s the Enclave. I don’t have any idea what it might be this time.
Most elements of the Fallout: Nevada main quest are cool, like the bikers. So I would keep most of it but find new roles for them.
-Does anything apart from the main quest need improvement?
Apart from the main quest the game is rock solid. Las Vegas needs to be fixed so that you can do the big location quest in any order without ruining it for yourself. I think I did some things in the wrong order and by doing so I had to rely on the walkthrough and Alphons to clean up the mess.
Salt Lake City was nicely done. However I do think that fixing the Water Tower should have a bigger impact and play a larger role i SLC. There should be some sort of power struggle on who gets control over the water, since it’s such an important resource. On the topic of SLC, why were the inhabitants so hesitant to talk about trains?
A new American voice actor for the intro and outro would be beneficial. Also voice acting for the talking heads. Some important characters don’t have their own talking heads like for example the Colonel in the end game.
Merchants were low on cash but I had my car trunk full of stuff I wanted to sell. However there were no high level equipment to barter for anyway.
-What's the game's strengths and weaknesses?
The primal strength of Fallout: Nevada is player freedom. You are free to travel the Wasteland and can do and discover countless things. I got the impression that the designers of the game know the ins and outs of what you can do with the gameplay and they’ve added a lot of cool little gameplay systems. The maps are fun to explore and very well done.
However a lot of things are just rehashed from previous games. In New Reno you help the gangster families just like in Fallout 2 for example. And in Uranium City there’s a mine plagued by mutants, just like in Redding. However it feels like Fallout: Nevada has even more content and things to do than Fallout 2. I like all the little small things you can do like find the products for the beauty kit and the like.
I would have liked to see a different armor progression. I love the Combat Armor but by the time I first found it I already had the Power Armor, making it redundant. It would have been nice to go through the whole chain of different armors and their upgrades leading up to the Power Armor. It was really cool to assemble the Power Armor from different parts found throughout your journey. I really liked that.
To get the car working and then upgrade it was also quite stimulating.
-What build did you use during your play-through?
My first character was a mistake with far too much charisma. When I realized that I started over with a new character with dumped charisma. I went with Science, Speech and Energy Weapons and with the help of skill books I also raised a lot of other skills.
The skills in Fallout: Nevada cap at 300%, just like in Fallout 2. However with 100% in small guns accompanied by a few perks you can get really good aimed shots. I can see no reason to raise it beyond 100%. I raised energy weapons to 150% and that was more than enough. That meant I had a lot of skill points to put into other skills. With additional points from skill books I could do almost everything, open locks, doctor, repair etc. For most skills it’s more than enough to bring them to let’s say 80. There’s no reason at all to go all the way to 300. I don’t remember how it is in Fallout 1 and 2 but I will monitor this issue going forward.
I got 100% unarmed without putting a single point in it. There’s a trainer in Reno that raises your skill 5% for 1000 up to four times. Then there’s one in Vegas which also gives +1 strength. And then you can get 20% from hitting boxing bags in Area 51 and then additional 10% from boxing bags in the government vault. I don’t remember but I might have gotten some unarmed from additional sources. A funny thing with unarmed is that you get crappy percentages for aimed shots when you are at skill level 100% but with small guns at the same level I most often got 95% to hit the eyes.
-What's your weapon of choice?
I really liked the Gauss Pistol I got from the Reaper but I also used the Alien blaster and a scoped hunting rifle. There’s not that many high level weapons in the game. I regret not taking the Plasma Rifle for completing the Warehouse Assignment, instead I took the Laser Rifle which you get loads of later in the game.
-Describe your favorite quest and why you like it!
I liked the gecko hunting quest since I thought it was a cool use of gameplay mechanics to use the sound from the pipe to lure geckos into traps. As Alphons said Lovelock surgery is really nice with a lot of things to get right. But I think my favorite was to free Chemist Terry. My first character had troubles with it even though I gave it several attempts. It was very satisfying to get it done right with my second char and kill all the attackers by myself.
-What's your favorite location in the game?
A lot of good ones. Gerlach had a nice mood conveyed by the soundtrack played in that location. Black Rock had a nice dynamic with the different styles of William and Justin. However I must say Wind of War is my favorite. General Wesker is trying to keep discipline but his band of descendants from former militaries are descending into becoming raiders. You can also find out in what fashion they left Hawthorne base and that is something of a dark secret. I got a good ending for Wind of War so that’s something.
Area 51 was one of the high points as well. That alien infested hell hole was very well done with a lot of options for the player.
-What ending did you get?
Wind of War actually managed to improve itself which I was happy about. I got good endings for most locations except New Reno which remained a criminal cesspool. However I would have liked ending slides for Gerlach, Uranium City and Black Rock. I don’t know their fate.
-Does it add to Fallout lore in a good way?
Yes and no. The main quest takes you to a lot of interesting locations like the Lovelock Radar Station, Area 51 and the Governmental Vault. But in its essence it’s a missed opportunity.
Although it’s fun with the former President's head, plugged into the vault computer systems, and who talks like Gollum, I think the game would have gained a lot by doing things differently.
However I like how the game adds backstory to Vault City, New Reno, Las Vegas. We also get to see new locations like Hawthorne Base, Wind of War and Salt Lake City. They are all done really well and help flesh out the West Coast world, in a good way.
There’s also some fan service like Richard Grey and Harold. I don’t mind it but this post by @gustarballs1983 is interesting. I will take his point into consideration when I replay Fallout 1.
I guess Harold managed to flee back to the Hub when Vault 8 came under attack
I was a bit disappointed that you couldn’t ask Hardy the caravaner about Harold, he would have known him since he was a trader from the Hub.
-Could it be considered as part of the Fallout canon?
Not the game but parts of it, see above. As Alphons pointed out it contradicts some Fallout 2 lore on Vault City and the Enclave.
-After having completed it, what did you think of the game?
Loved it! Although it was very big. I had so little time to play per day that I was a bit stressed all the time, sometimes I just wanted to finish it. However I do feel that I want to reply Fallout: Nevada and if I have some more time I hopefully will.
Next time I will make sure to have enough Charisma to be able to do the pole dancing (If you’re low on charisma you can’t eat caramels to get the dancing job. At the same time as it gives you more charisma it also lowers your perception and agility and agility is needed).
One of the special encounters is an empty Ranger camp. If you use radio there, you can contact a Ranger. While it's not mentioned in the game, Nevada Bible says he's also called Tycho- reference or maybe he really is related to Tycho.
Tagging @Keyboard Gecko in case I missed or got something wrong below.
Main story (mind you, I'm basing it all on Fixed edition, as previously it was kinda messy with explanations).
If you don't kill the Reaper at the Government Vault (sneak by for example) he's in Vault 8 instead of Colonel and you can talk with him more.
From what I understand people at the Government Vault weren't part of the Enclave and were instead part of an experiment. After the president started murdering others, they contacted the Enclave and were rescued by them.
Vault 8 was partially staffed by normal humans (for example Overseer and Moreau). Enclave planned to use the clones of their members to transplant organs and live longer. After they evacuated the VP and other survivors from GV, the Reaper discovered the existence of Vault 8. He used the equipment from GV and survivors from Salt Lake City in his experiments in order to enhance his body and create his own imperfect clones.
People from SLC weren't pure, but he couldn't access the Vault 8 due to it's defenses. He hired Jay Kukish to steal a part of the security system, leaving the Vault defenseless. He still couldn't access the secret level and had to kidnap the Overseer to extract the information how to reach it.
If you kill Reaper, Colonel that arrives is indeed a member of Enclave.
There's actually. You can ruin both the economy and environment of SLC if you do things differently.
It's not hard to strike a perfect balance, but it's connected with the Cola plant. Go one way too much and plant gets closed, business dies, but the people are healthy. Go the other way- business booms, but the pollution from plant makes people sick. Doing Provo quests or murdering important people can get you both negative endings.
Reaper uses train to travel and early on he kidnapped people from SLC. Train's arrival was connected with missing people and a local boogeyman was created.
He actually gets released after a few months. You can ask the guards about it.
Pole dancing has way better storyline than jazz, but jazz can get you two karma titles.
Did you return to Black Rock and Gerlach before the end?
Smith dies after some time and entire Black Rock organizes his funeral.
If you recruited Gerlach population as servants for Vault City and return after a few months, you can witness Gerlach's suicide.
It was a real joy to read your impressions, guys, seriously.
A bit about Nevada intro voice acting: I'm repeating myself, but the beauty of unofficial mods without plans to be officially translated is that you can do what you want about them. That includes improving. So, if you want to contribute to translation (repo is open), or change the narration, just do it. Hopefully, better than I did. Write to @_Pyran_, so he would include it in the next version.
Looking forward to et tu, hoping to jump in later!
So I might be able to get to this around June at this point hahaha!!!
Thanks Alphons, that clarifies a lot.
That's cool, I didn't get that one. Since Nevada is only 20 years prior to Fallout 1 it could actually be a younger version of Tycho himself.
I will try that from an earlier save... That's really cool actually. But in that case wouldn't it be even cooler if the Reaper and the Colonel arrived at Vault City at the same time and that you could see them fight?
Of course, the Enclave formed later. Was the Nuka Cola the experiment and who conducted it in that case would you say?
Thanks for these explanations, that makes sense.
Alright, I just gave it to the doctor and that was it. I thought that was a bit anticlimactic. He has no means to make sure that no one else takes control over the tower. He's the good option but also the weakest.
That also makes sense, thanks.
I saw that you wrote something about Gerlach earlier in the thread so I have stopped by occasionally to see what it would be but nothing has happened yet. I loaded my latest save and went there now but but Mr. Gerlach and Smith are still around.
Time constraints. Nevada Bible also describes Reaper using Overseer's body if you killed him, but left Overseer alive and president arriving as a robobrain if you've convinced him to go out and explore.
There're 4 choices for the filter- give it to pharmacist (bad for plant, good for environment), sheriff (neutral), Skinner (good for plant, bad for environment) or install it yourself (good for environment, doesn't affect the plant).
During last Cola quest (fixing the PCL) they warn you to not talk with the pharmacist. If you do it, pharmacist wants you to destroy the PCL. Doing it is good for environment, but bad for plant. Fixing the PCL helps the plant, but is bad for environment.
It's not really a tough choice, as you get the best ending by just doing what you're told (filter for pharmacist and fixing the PCL).
Deputy Fry got lucky shot during the Hub massacre and crippled right arm. Sadly all doctors were dead or hostile.
Hunted down the special encounter characters (Bob and talking brahmins) and unique random encounters (fisherman and his son, 4 named Hub merchants, Duc, BoS patrol, Lance, deathclaw attack survivor and lonely Khan. Had to use Mentats to get Missing caravans and Irving's farm and kill the deathclaw, wounded mutant and bandits.
Returned to Necropolis after invasion and killed all mutants.
Master was killed before the destruction of Mariposa.
Shady Sands elected a city council after deaths of Aradesh and Tandi. It was ineffective and SS was destroyed by raiders.
Junktown didn't have a leader and was destroyed by Supermutants.
Hub was destroyed by Supermutants.
Without Rhombus Brotherhood transformed into Steel Plague and would clash with the young NCR (which was somehow created with SS destroyed plus Aradesh and Tandi dead).
Necropolis was destroyed by Supermutants. Even if someone survived pump was still broken and VD took the water chip.
Followers were destroyed by Supermutants.
Every single Khan was killed.
Overseer and dozens of Vault 13 Dwellers were murdered.
But one character couldn't be killed. So Umm strapped herself with explosives and went to Glow to blow up ZAX. Resulting explosion ended with the computer destroyed and our charming anti-hero finally dead.
Awesome! So Resurrection next eh? Man we need that Sonora translation...
Oh I didn't remember NCR was mentioned already back in Fallout 1.
I think I will go with Gifted and Good Natured for my next playthrough with high Intelligence, Perception and Agility. Since it was such a long time since I last played Fallout 1 it will be a pretty vanilla run where I strive for a good outcome. I also want to catch as much of the lore as possible.
There's a machine translation:
Codex member finished the game using it- mentioned that it was alright, some minor jank and a couple ERROR in dialogues, but nothing gamebreaking.
Still, the Dayglow update is supposed to be released in a few months.
4th major ending was mentioned with question marks, so no idea what that meant (or whether it's even official).
So are you going with Sonora then? I think I will wait for that Dayglow update you mentioned before I try it.
I think it would be better to experience the entire thing with the new additions for the first time and hopefully a good translation, so yeah.
It's great being back playing Fallout. I'm at Vault 15 now killing rats. I've already got some use from the Et tu QoL feature being able to push Ian when he blocks the damn door ways.
I couldn't ask Aradesh much about the background of Shady Sands however Seths brother told me it was Aradesh's father who founded the settlement. I was expecting some background on how they came from Vault 15.
Most NPC:s in Shady Sands have the same dialogue, unlike Fallout: Nevada. I didn't remember the sprite for the girl kid, has that always been in Fallout? It's nice that there are at least two different sprites for kids.
I miss some of the QoL features that Fallout: Nevada had:
The highlight all button
Carrying capacity being shown everywhere
You could just however the mouse cursor over someone to see their health status, now you have to click to examine
You could click an enemy that was out of range and your character would then first walk up to them and then do a melee attack, here you have to first walk and then attack.