Fallout 3 and Game Violence's Taboo

Pope Viper said:
Games seem to be geared more to the "casual" gamers, who can just pick up their controller, and whack a few beasties for that visceral "I've killed, now it's time to go watch TV."
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Ah, I see another thing I really differ with these people, I barely watch any television, preferring PC gaming/internet, movies (old ones) and reading over it.
 
True.

Personally, I have more interest in playing with my daughter then watching TV, but when FO came out, I was single, and totally focused on my career, so a game had to be special to get my attention.

Hell, I even gave up sailing trips to play FO. How's that for addictive?

So, it's going to be hard to spend time on FO3, but I made committments, so I'll have to endure it.
 
whirlingdervish said:
So effectively, Walmart's hypocritical operating practices have limitted what the rest of the world gets to see in their video games.
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Then the answer is simple.

We lynch all the kids of walmart employees and murder them with sledge hammers, rifle shots to the groind and planted dynomite which we make them steal off us thinking its candy in a bag.


Seriously though that is such a load. Its similar over here as well (UK). Political correctness and censorship has gone off the rail. Same with health and saftey; today in our office we all got briefed on what to do if there is a bomb. A BOMB for **** sake.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Sorrow said:
Isn't that for fictional characters that we roleplay to decide?
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Ha ha, you know what I mean :P
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What pisses me off the most when I hear the alien scum talking about how something shouldn't be in game because it's wrong is that they completely ignore that there shouldn't be forced morality in RPGs, only actions and consequences.
The character that I create isn't supposed to be guided by my own morality. I may think that attacking innocent people is wrong and despicable, but Ed the Raider may think that shooting a kid that saw what have done to his mother is a good decision.
 
Well, that I can understand with some of the things going on the world.

I work in a high rise in downtown Dallas. We've had drills on if planes start hitting buildings again.

We actually had to go down 43 flights of stairs.

43 I'm 38, with bad knees. I thought I was going to die.


It doesn't help that my building has a bulls eye on it (note 'X')

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Question:

Sorrow said:
... the alien scum ...
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?????


EDIT:


Pope Viper said:
Well, that I can understand with some of the things going on the world.

I work in a high rise in downtown Dallas. We've had drills on if planes start hitting buildings again.

We actually had to go down 43 flights of stairs.

43 I'm 38, with bad knees. I thought I was going to die.


It doesn't help that my building has a bulls eye on it (note 'X')
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What? Seriously as if having a drill for such occasions solves any perpose. The Trrsts will NEVER get another plane to crash into a building with the secuirty of today - USA learnt its lesson.

Further; If there is a bomb in your building chances are the first anyone will know about it will be a very large bang.

Thirdly: People dont need to be drilled in that kinda stuff. Everyone knows the drill in that sort of situation - get the heck out of dodge. You have 360 directions, pick one and start running.

Also, this is the UK I live in. I felt ashamed when we had to go through the bomb drill thing... I cant quite explain why. Its been a long day with little sleep to begin.
 
Pope Viper said:
True.

Personally, I have more interest in playing with my daughter then watching TV, but when FO came out, I was single, and totally focused on my career, so a game had to be special to get my attention.

Hell, I even gave up sailing trips to play FO. How's that for addictive?

So, it's going to be hard to spend time on FO3, but I made committments, so I'll have to endure it.
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Nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy a game, especially one you may have waited for for a long time.

Years ago there were practically two or three games a month I more than anything wanted to play, now that number has diminished to four or five a year I may be interested in.

Media; current day movies and television has become a creative black hole IMO, that is why I no longer wish to spend as much time on it as I do now.

I hope in time to spend less time behind my PC as well and instead focus on drawing and writing which I so much wish to learn as I feel it would make me happier in life.

Still, and back to the subject, when I want to play a game I would like a title that also appeals to me and not the loads of mainstream gamers all titles these days are aimed at.

Would they honestly feel insulted if a new Fallout had not been made directly for them?
With all the GTA's, Assassin Creed's, Halos, Gears of Wars and other hyped titles they would have never missed it.
 
You really have to balance out and consider if doing violence to a child in a game is so important to your story that it outweighs any kind of social responsibility you might have.
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Social responsibility? Are you fucking kidding me? It's a game, and a game that allows players to blow apart enemies. Since when does anyone have any social responsibility about killing anyone in a game? If it's alright to kill adults of different types then there should be no problem with killing kids. I'm with Sorrow, how can the guy who talked about it being funny to kill and old lady, chop off her head, and talk to the dead, unresponsive head talk about social responsibility when it comes to killing kids? Add to it that you can supposedly sell children to slavers and you have a very ridiculous statement.

Rev. Layle said:
Honestly, I would have respected the answer better if it was along the line of: "We left kids out of the game because it would really mess with getting an M from ESRB or being banned from certain advocacy groups" or something like that.
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Agreed and the problem with the piece is that it suggests that their biggest concern wasn't the ESRB (that's secondary), it was some kind of bogus moral or social decision. If he had talked about how it was a problem that the game would end up getting an A rating from ESRB (something I'm not convinced of) and the problem with that then it would have been fine but instead he just pored on the bs.

entropyjesus said:
They could have just not allowed you to kill the children in their "totally new and original" slow-motion style. Being from the U.S. myself, I think that as long as the violence against children wasn't gratuitous, then it would be fine. They should have just turned down the violence level in general, which is mostly pointless and goofy looking anyway. I'm pretty sure if Rockstar Games had made Fallout 3, you would see killable children and an M rating from the ESRB. I completely disagree with Emil in this case and I think they were just hoping to be able to sell to young teenagers and cater to the lowest common denominator without stepping on TOO many toes.
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Completely agree.

Brother None said:
Yes, child killing is automatic AO.
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Where do you get this from?

Pope Viper said:
Well, that I can understand with some of the things going on the world.

I work in a high rise in downtown Dallas. We've had drills on if planes start hitting buildings again.

We actually had to go down 43 flights of stairs.

43 I'm 38, with bad knees. I thought I was going to die.


It doesn't help that my building has a bulls eye on it (note 'X')
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Well it does look like a perfect location for a Walmart, if only it was a vacant lot... :P Bomb drills are stupid, especially in random high rises. The likely targets for attacks are the Pentagon (which was hit by a plane in the same attack) and national monuments or buildings which have some national emotional importance (World Trade Center, maybe the Empire State building, I'm sure there's others...), not some random ass high rise. Besides which, if a plane hits your building, your either dead, trapped and soon to be dead, or below the blast (assuming the building is still standing) and there isn't a question of "Should I read another email or get a cup of coffee from the break room or head down?"
 
I mean people whose morality/culture is alien to me. I don't have anything against them as long as they don't push their alien morality on me. Then I get rabidly xenophobic and start reciting Catechism of the Xeno :P .

UncannyGarlic said:
I'm with Sorrow, how can the guy who talked about it being funny to kill and old lady, chop off her head, and talk to the dead, unresponsive head talk about social responsibility when it comes to killing kids? Add to it that you can supposedly sell children to slavers and you have a very ridiculous statement.
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I think that the main problem is that he is talking from a position of a someone who treats actions happening in game emotionally - to him killing an old lady is "fun" and "humour" not something that is done by character because of his own motivation and judged by PC's morality. Role Playing Games aren't GTA or Carmageddon that one plays because random destruction is fun.

UncannyGarlic said:
Rev. Layle said:
Honestly, I would have respected the answer better if it was along the line of: "We left kids out of the game because it would really mess with getting an M from ESRB or being banned from certain advocacy groups" or something like that.
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Agreed and the problem with the piece is that it suggests that their biggest concern wasn't the ESRB (that's secondary), it was some kind of bogus moral or social decision. If he had talked about how it was a problem that the game would end up getting an A rating from ESRB (something I'm not convinced of) and the problem with that then it would have been fine but instead he just pored on the bs.
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I think that it would be fair if he said that ESRB is a problem. Or better if he told what we can do to solve that problem.
 
Have you guys ever had one live stick of dynamite in your inventory, and then walked past the den kids that steal from you? Good times. I'm not even sure if that makes you a childkiller.
 
pyrock said:
Have you guys ever had one live stick of dynamite in your inventory, and then walked past the den kids that steal from you? Good times. I'm not even sure if that makes you a childkiller.
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It doesnt make you a child killer, and yes, good times.
 
Screw dynamite, screw plastic explosives, there is only one way to kill kids... spiked knuckles...to the groin. Nuff said.

But no, its too stupid and violent to kill kids, why would you ever want to do it? I much prefer the mass destruction of entire towns, everybody wants to destroy towns! And old women too, nothing is as good as ripping an old woman's head off with a choo choo gun and pinning her head to your mantelpiece in your pimped out house.

Seriously though, IIRC, there were NO characters in the Den that EVER tried to harm you or commit some evil act without provocation, except those bastard kids.
 
off topic, but I just noticed TheRatKing's sig...

"Fallout : Grim Fandango"

and thought wow, I'd actually pay to play that.

:o
 
When I played Fallout, I chose not to kill the children. Other players might have chosen otherwise. This is their choice to do so. And that is why it is called role-playing...the ability to play a role.
And to live with the consequences i.e. if you kill any children, the whole gameworld in Fallout will rise up against you and it will be very difficult for you til complete the game, although it can be done.

Roleplaying to me is all about choice, given the players a choice to do either good or bad - and then suffer or live with the consequences. Apparently Bethesda's take on Fallout 3's roleplaying only involves the Bloody Mess Perk and some witty dark humour....

The truth behind this is, as others have said also, if Bethsoft had included child killing in the game, no moms would have bought, the ESRB would have given it an AO rating...and Walmart wouldn't have sold it...
 
aries369 said:
And to live with the consequences i.e. if you kill any children, the whole gameworld in Fallout will rise up against you and it will be very difficult for you til complete the game, although it can be done.
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I wonder how did they know that PC have killed a kid. Also, would anyone really care about thieves in Den? When player tries to steal something and fails, everyone wants to kill him/her.
 
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