Fallout 3 at E3 - Electric Playground

Hello,

People, make up all the excuses and explanations you want but the simple truth is, Fallout canon regarding the Brotherhood of Steel and the Super Mutants for that matter has been screwed up by Bethesda for simple reasons;

"Brotherhood of Steel, those guys in those big armour suits right? Seeing as they're soldiers they're probably some force that is bringing order to the wasteland, lets make them wasteland police."

"Super Mutants, well they wanted to overtake the wasteland in Fallout 1, we see no reason why they shouldn't try doing that in Fallout 3, so lets use them like that."


I am pretty sure that if some element within the Brotherhood would decide that they wanted to play 'wasteland cop', that they wouldn't be able to take technology such as Power Armour or laser weapons with them.
The Brotherhood Elders might not often agree on many issues but they sure as hell would not let some Paladins run away with their technology.

If the group was large enough that the Elders could not intervene, there would probably be a civil war amongst the two factions.


As for Super Mutants, well I don't have to explain that.


I have said many times before and I will say again, Bethesda is simply to lazy or uninspired to create its own factions and create a whole unique Fallout region.
 
Jiggly McNerdington said:
Bethesda could completely blow it, but I assume they're smart enough to realize how the BoS works. Unless like I've thought elsewhere, the BoS in FO3 might be a disgruntled offshoot. Maybe some paladins and scribes a generation or two down the line who got irritated at the BoS hiding in its bunker instead of trying to help the people of the wasteland and... Set off east for some reason
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So, basically, maybe they copied Tactics despite declaring it non-canon?
 
Aha aha. Toadd Horrigan said they have the same people (okay I wrote people okay) working on F3 as on Oblivion. So... do you really expect explanations?
Well - targeted gamers of F3 don't care about any of this shit - so expect something like...

F3: Muties are BAD
BoS is GOOD
Nuclear Rocket-Launcher is GOOD
Take it and shoot the BAD guys to a bloody mess!!!
F3 fans: YAY!

...the only original thing I found in F3 is that you do not start the game in jail..
 
skyway said:
...the only original thing I found in F3 is that you do not start the game in jail..
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Though to be wholly honest, Bethesda's idea of a Vault is just a prison where people wear jumpsuits and robots have senses of humor for some reason...
 
generalissimofurioso said:
Though to be wholly honest, Bethesda's idea of a Vault is just a prison where people wear jumpsuits and robots have senses of humor for some reason...
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Indeed generalissimofurioso, isn't the first quest to escape the Vault?
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Indeed generalissimofurioso, isn't the first quest to escape the Vault?
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Knowing Bethesda, their idea of an escape is incredibly simple.

VD101: Hey Overseer, can I leave the vault?
Overseer: No one ever enters, no one ever leaves!
VD101: My dad just left.
Overseer: Oh, go find him then.
VD101: You mind if I nuke a town or two while I'm out there?
Overseer: Go nuts kid.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
The Brotherhood Elders might not often agree on many issues but they sure as hell would not let some Paladins run away with their technology.
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Assuming the people who wanted to leave politely asked, instead of just packing up and leaving on their own. And if that's the case, I'm not sure the elders would bother sending more paladins to go kill them since A: the power armor and such that the "Rebels" took would get shot up, and B: the loyalist BoS members sent to do the killing would take losses.

Ausir said:
So, basically, maybe they copied Tactics despite declaring it non-canon?
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It's possible. I'm just pulling things out of my ass since they haven't explained the BoS yet.

generalissimofurioso said:
Bethesda's idea of a Vault is just a prison
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Couldn't that be vault 101's experiment? IIRC Vault City's vault (8 I think) was a control vault, so 101 being sealed this long would lead me to believe that's either the experiment for it, or related to it.
 
ratsnack said:
Isn't that what happens in Van Buren?
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Yes, but you being in prison was justified and tied to the overall plot much better than in most games that resort to this cliche.
 
Jiggly McNerdington said:
Couldn't that be vault 101's experiment? IIRC Vault City's vault (8 I think) was a control vault, so 101 being sealed this long would lead me to believe that's either the experiment for it, or related to it.
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That could very well be the explanation for it, but I'm just saying that it's not that much of a stretch for Bethesda; and from what I've read/heard so far, it really isn't like they're making it anything more than a "prison" to hold you while you learn the basics of the game.
 
That wouldn't really be different from the cave 'o rats in FO1 or the temple of trials in FO2 though. Even being a vault dweller in FO1 you don't spend much game time in the vault for the most part. Hell, I didn't even realize I could head back in to the vault at the beginning of the game for a few quests until after a few playthroughs, always figured they just chucked you out and locked the door.

Though for connections to the story as opposed to game time, yeah, the vault is way more important in FO1 than how FO3 sounds so far. In FO3 it sounds mostly along the lines of "My dad has left, I will go find him" or "The overseer is suspicious of me, I better run before he decides to kill me". Maybe there'll be some cool vault-related quests in there though, like joining/becoming buddies with raiders and telling them the location of the vault and the entry code so they can go pillage it and give you a cut, or for high karma characters realizing that the wasteland isn't as barren and horrible as the overseer claims and coming back to the vault to try to tell the other vault dwellers it's not so bad and everyone should hop outside and use the GECK.

Pulling more things out of my ass, but those sound like pretty decent possible vault sidequests.
 
Hello Jiggly McNerdington,

Assuming the people who wanted to leave politely asked, instead of just packing up and leaving on their own. And if that's the case, I'm not sure the elders would bother sending more paladins to go kill them since A: the power armor and such that the "Rebels" took would get shot up, and B: the loyalist BoS members sent to do the killing would take losses.
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The simple fact is, the Brotherhood is not like that, they are not the "just and fair defenders of the wasteland, protector of the weak and innocent."

One of the guards of the Lost Hill bunker will tell you that anyone in the Brotherhood who wants to become something else than a Scribe, Knight, or Paladin leaves, and most likely without technology as the Brotherhood pretty much keeps the monopoly on Power Armour Mark 1.

This is simply a wrong and flawed idea on Bethesda's side.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Hello Jiggly McNerdington,

Assuming the people who wanted to leave politely asked, instead of just packing up and leaving on their own. And if that's the case, I'm not sure the elders would bother sending more paladins to go kill them since A: the power armor and such that the "Rebels" took would get shot up, and B: the loyalist BoS members sent to do the killing would take losses.
Click to expand...

The simple fact is, the Brotherhood is not like that, they are not the "just and fair defenders of the wasteland, protector of the weak and innocent."

One of the guards of the Lost Hill bunker will tell you that anyone in the Brotherhood who wants to become something else than a Scribe, Knight, or Paladin leaves, and most likely without technology as the Brotherhood pretty much keeps the monopoly on Power Armour Mark 1.

This is simply a wrong and flawed idea on Bethesda's side.
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That doesn't mean that paladins and scribes don't decide over time that the technology would be better used to help all of the wasteland rather than stuffed in the brotherhood. It makes sense that if someone who joins the BoS and doesn't agree with all that would get kicked out, but sometimes people's opinions change. Maybe a group of paladins on patrol saw some people dying of thirst who could be saved with water purification technology the brotherhood has, or maybe BoS members in mini-outposts in some of the scattered cities see illnesses that medicine the BoS could produce could cure, and they change their mind about the use of the technology.

Or maybe they just went east to stop the re-mastering of the super mutants and spread law and order and kick ass and chew afterburner gum, and they're all out of afterburner gum. Pretty much all wild speculation right now, but I'm definitely open to some reasons the BoS are in FO3. Just gotta wait and see if the reasons they're there make sense to me or not.
 
Jiggly McNerdington said:
That doesn't mean that paladins and scribes don't decide over time that the technology would be better used to help all of the wasteland rather than stuffed in the brotherhood. It makes sense that if someone who joins the BoS and doesn't agree with all that would get kicked out, but sometimes people's opinions change. Maybe a group of paladins on patrol saw some people dying of thirst who could be saved with water purification technology the brotherhood has, or maybe BoS members in mini-outposts in some of the scattered cities see illnesses that medicine the BoS could produce could cure, and they change their mind about the use of the technology.

Or maybe they just went east to stop the re-mastering of the super mutants and spread law and order and kick ass and chew afterburner gum, and they're all out of afterburner gum. Pretty much all wild speculation right now, but I'm definitely open to some reasons the BoS are in FO3. Just gotta wait and see if the reasons they're there make sense to me or not.
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Look, I can be very patient and open minded to people, but even that has a limit, especially when it comes to stubbornness or ignorance.

I can accept that the Brotherhood might change it ways and open up more in order to allow new members to join up to bolster up its numbers and return it to strength.
But they are not paragons of virtue like classical paladins, that was the theme behind their creation.

"Here is this paranoid bunch of isolationists with some of the best technology of the wasteland who see themselves as the best humanity has to offer, and yet they do not share their technology or help others unless it coincides with their own goals."

Once again play Fallout 1 and 2, they are the templates on which the other games should be based (Fallout 1 probably more than 2 probably), writers can add to that, perhaps introduce a few changes but not make a turn of 180 degrees.


If bethesda wanted a Wasteland Police with Power Armour, let them create their own complete new faction, not twist a faction that has already undergone painful changes even more.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
I am pretty sure that if some element within the Brotherhood would decide that they wanted to play 'wasteland cop', that they wouldn't be able to take technology such as Power Armour or laser weapons with them.
The Brotherhood Elders might not often agree on many issues but they sure as hell would not let some Paladins run away with their technology.
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Actually, there was one split in BoS before the events of F1 that involved a faction taking some technology including PA which went to explore the Glow.

The Dutch Ghost said:
"Here is this paranoid bunch of isolationists with some of the best technology of the wasteland who see themselves as the best humanity has to offer, and yet they do not share their technology or help others unless it coincides with their own goals."
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Fallout1 ending said:
After the death of Maxson, Rhombus, head of the Paladins, became the new High Elder. After the death of the Master, the Brotherhood of Steel helped the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away with minimal loss of life on both sides of the conflict.
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It doesn't seem to be a paranoid bunch of isolationists. Also, notice "with minimal loss of life on both sides of the conflict." - it seems that they care about both the human and mutant life.
Maybe they are the best humanity has to offer?
 
Hello Sorrow,

Actually, there was one split in BoS before the events of F1 that involved a faction taking some technology including PA which went to explore the Glow.
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Okay, you corrected me there, and of course there was Marcus his friend who also seemed to be on a solo quest.

What I mean is, Fallout 3 so far seems to imply that a rather significant force; a platoon no less, is now playing 'wasteland cop' in what is left of DC, and this seems rather against their nature.


After the death of Maxson, Rhombus, head of the Paladins, became the new High Elder. After the death of the Master, the Brotherhood of Steel helped the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away with minimal loss of life on both sides of the conflict.
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I always got more the impression that it was the presence of the Brotherhood, not really a significant military campaign on the Brotherhood's side that resolved the Super Mutant matter peacefully.
 
I also wasn't saying that the BoS in FO3 might be there "Officially", if it's a small splinter group of people who got the hell out of Dodge they could mostly be considered ex-BoS unless they try to start a new branch of BoS using their own vision.

Though since this is all speculation, it could also be possible that the isolationist BoS discovered something indicating there was some great piece of technology they'd like to get their hands on over in DC, and sent a group out to get it. That might also explain how ratty and beat up the power armor looks in the teaser, they're a long way from the brotherhood's workshops after a long and probably arduous journey. Even if the BoS is isolationist, if you're far from home looking for the mystical widget to bring back, you probably don't want to step on people's toes and make more enemies than you have to, so they could be working along with other people in FO3.
 
continuing prison escape theme
If I'm correct Todd said sometime "You were born in the vault, you will die in the vault". Does it mean that some shit outta there will be linear?

about the prison though...

NPC: "Wake up, wake up, your dad just gone"
PC: [gordon freeman mode on] ...
NPC: "Oh! The overseer's coming! just stay cool"
PC: ...
NPC: "You better do like he said"
PC: ...

and then one night you will awake and find yourself under assault of some black assas... I mean vault thugs. And will have to travel to meet Almale... Ahem.. eeh...

Knowing how beth like to put storylines in their games I will not be surprised if I will become a messiah of the world again...
 
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