Fallout 3 at E3 - Gamehelper

[lisac2k]

I believe it was Jiggly's one.

Also, to all newcomers: welcome and please, inform yourself well - and I mean WELL AS HELL - before posting. Lack of evidences and stubborn subjective truth-chasing may (and most probably will) result in being stroked.

Information is gold. Understanding it properly is priceless.

 

[Sander]

That makes no sense at all. A game about time travelling dinosaurs on the Discworld infested by goblins and zombies created by vampires from beyond the moon would be more Fallout friendly than Fallout 3, simply because there are GURPS books for all of it, and if the game was iso and turn based and used GURPS/SPECIAL it's closer to Fallout? The setting is what I enjoy most about the Fallout games. The meta humor, the violence, the whole 50's sci-fi post apocalyptic setting with vaults and mutants and FEV and everything is the main thing that makes me enjoy the Fallouts. SPECIAL worked very well and made a cool setting more enjoyable, but I just don't see how you can completely write off a game simply because it plays differently.

And you're missing the point entirely. It isn't about what you enjoyed the most about the game (and if you enjoyed the setting the most, I sincerely wonder why you chose to play a videogame instead of watch a movie), it's about what the first game was designed to be. It wasn't designed to be a game revolving around a cool setting, it was designed as a GURPS emulation. A game that was based in the traditions of P&P RPG. That is *objectively* the very core of Fallout, yet Bethesda is ignoring that core. Hence why we are we pissed, hence why we don't feel Fallout 3 is a proper sequel.
Your Warcraft example below is flawed, in that the core of Warcraft's design (RTS) stayed. It was still a C&C style RTS, with more powerful individual heroes added. The gameplay isn't all that different.
What would be a better example if they were to take Diablo 3, and make it a first-person, turn-based RPG with lots and lots and lots of conversation. Could this be a good game? Yeah, probably. But it is in no way what people want and expect from a 3rd Diablo.

Hell, for a recent example, look at Warcraft 3. Though I liked the story less than Warcraft 2, the genre was the same, RTS. They change the gameplay significantly by adding more micro-heavy units and leveling heroes and creeping and yadda yadda yadda. The gameplay is undoubtably vastly different from Warcraft 2, while it is still fairly obviously a Warcraft game. Yes, it's not as dramatic as going from RPG FPSRPG, but jarring changes in gameplay don't change the setting. I would say that's a fact, though I guess I'm the only one who thinks it.

No one is arguing that a gameplay change is the same as a setting change.

Also, don't double post.

So I've got 2 strikes? What does that mean? Are you saying that people posting uninformed opinions saying "you guys are all wrong, FO3 is going to be great!" should be ignored?

Mick

We're saying you don't call people trolls when they're being perfectly reasonable and polite. Not everyone who simply disagrees with you is automatically a troll.
Also, you've only got one strike. Jiggly got the second one.
BloodNinja's second post is exactly why you don't do that, by the way:

WOW, thanks for making me feel welcome! lol
I mean seriously, I didn't knock any of your views I was just expressing my own. Then you call me down, tell me I'm not a "real" fan of the series because I don't share your views and you try to discredit my opinion and say it doesn't make any sense.
You know, I didn't go about explaining each aspect individually because I assumed you all had the intelligence to know what I meant instead of purposely disregarding my view and attacking me. I loved the FO games, I found them to be engrossing and I think that having the new game FP will bring more to that. I think the feel of the game remains intact from what I've read. And as far as the gore goes, anyone remember bloody mess? hmmmmmm Now I can go on to rag on all of you with my extensive knowledge of the "AMAZING FALLOUT UNIVERSE" and how your opinions don't match my opinions, but really I'm not that emotionally unbalanced. Go play a fps, gtfo troll. Like what the hell is that about? I was really hoping to join these forums to talk about FO3 and share my opinions with others like myself, but I think I'll just carry on playing the previews games until the new one comes out and I can kick it with some AZOME NUKLEAR EXPLOSHINS ROLFCOPTERZORS.

You think that the feel is intact? Fine. Most of us don't. We don't see how a nuclear catapult, or the Super Mutant as portrayed in the previews, or the Behemoth, or drinking from toilet water, or the *over*-emphasis on violent gore (no one is denying that Fallout wasn't gory, just that it wasn't the basis of its humour), or the fucking stupid jokes (yay, ticketbots with lasers) fit the setting.
And besides that, we hate to see the franchise changed gameplaywise as well. I really don't see how anyone can contend that the gameplay of a videogame isn't essential to it.

 

[Mick1965]

We're saying you don't call people trolls when they're being perfectly reasonable and polite. Not everyone who simply disagrees with you is automatically a troll.

No problems, I'll watch that in future. Do the strikes dissipate over time?

By the way, you've quoted me above (in the paragraph that starts with WOW), but I didn't make this comment. Just letting you know.

Mick

 

[Dembol]

Lots of F-words, D-words and S-words !
What's happening to Todd ?

That's what we call extreme marketing. Look how edgy and extreme we are. We use cuss words. Yay! We're mutha---kin' 12-year olds.

I was sceptic, yet filled with hope that F3 will be an enjoyable experience for me. Latest news and Todd Howard acting like a 'oh-so-hip' teenager (judging from the quotes) gave me a more realistic opinion.

It seems that the new Fallout will be something like a bad Garth Ennis comic book. His works are either totally awesome (Punisher MAX - best Punisher books ever) or utter crap with over-the-top gore, violence and f-words making up for the lack of depth in dialogue and general retardation of the script. The crappy ones had good moments (Zombie vikings in Thor. Yeah!), but still sucked in general. Most likely this will be also the fate of the new Fallout.

Of course it is evident that some aspects of the game were watered down just to please the casual gamers (although I prefer the term 'were made half-assed'). FPP view not to alienate Oblivion crowd from a game (probably) advertised as "from the creators of Oblivion". The latest news prove that TPP view could solve the problem so we can let it slide (if TPP is as good as some sites claim).
Real time combat = fail. No time for tactics or thinking. Just chaotic bar brawl depending on your Quake/Tomb Raider skills. From what I've seen in Arcanum NPCs in your team act like crazy in that mode and add a lot to the chaos created. One might think this is why companions are mentioned reluctantly by the developers VATS looks like a type of thing just to calm down the angry mob of hadcore fans, but it's just another half-assed attempt, which doesn't please almost anyone (especially without groin or eye shots). New fallout will be dynamic (real-time), gore'y and with awesome graphics. Add toilet-jackass humour to the mix (instead of dark, gritty sometimes grotesque jokes) and we get a perfect game for the modern entertainment business mainstream target.

I may not like that, but I can understand why Bethesda is doing that. Money/profit is important and most companies aren't charity funds. Fallout 3 will probably be an awesome RPG game with decent plot, dialogue and such. Maybe the best Beth ever did if they tried as hard as they claim they did. It will probably sell (casual gamers+some of the HC crowd, just to check it out). Some people will enjoy it. Beth will get sweet cash.
Everyone will be happy...

...except the true fans. It is us, who created hundreds of mods, patches, add-ons. We played the games hundreds of times, found every possible quest or easter egg and could discuss about them for weeks. We managed Fallout web sites long after it's demise. When no one cared about the series WE still did. WE kept the franchise alive throughout the years. We may be bitchy, we might whine at every possible occasion, we might hate many (most? all?) of the new ideas* but we managed to keep the public interested in Fallout through last 10 years. We raised Fallout to cult status. We created the fan base. We are the reason that you (Bethesda) will be able to sell more games than with any random post-apoc, FPS, RPG game. Do not f-ck with us **
Because I believe that we deserve at least little respect for our dedication to the game, which is definitely not the treatment we're getting.

On a side note:
Hope dies last. Even with the numerous changes and ideas I don't like I still have some faith that it will be an enjoyable Fallout game or at least with the fourth and fifth one we'll get what we want. I know I will definitely check it out (rent, borrow from a friend or something) before I decide whether to buy or not. I suppose many others will do the same (hence no demo - it would hurt the sales I guess.

* I know I will enjoy creating/upgrading weapons from stuff I find, eating corpses (especially if cannibalism will be possible... Lecter type of character could be fun to play
** Sorry for swearing, but I just had to use that quote.
***Sorry for any grammar errors. My English may've gotten a bit rusty over the years.

First time poster, lurker etc. Hi everyone!

 

[Punter X]

now this is somewhat off-topic but i was wondering if throwing about your "credentials" when you are a recent member actually makes a difference how serious you are taken

the reason i'm curious is that as a recent member myself i don't believe i've felt it necessary to do the whole "longtime visitor to nma but only recent created an account"/"i've played Fallout 1&2 x times" etc thing and i can't help but feel puzzled when these "longtime visitors" appear to be parroting the same old tired arguments regarding the direction of beth's little project which have been discredited time and time again. how these frequent visitors appear to have constantly missed these threads, i would have to admit, is somewhat of a mystery to me

 

[Per]

I read it and understood what he meant, and i'm sure you do too but find it easier to be difficult about it.

You're wrong, though. In part it's what Punter X said - in the context of Bethesda changing the core design elements of Fallout and people praising them for this in the name of "immersion", it would be utterly laughable if after all they only managed to "keep it intact" - but mostly it's the fact that immersion is not a property of games. It's also not what I think about when I think about great games and what made them great, and based on the way a lot of people use it, it's not something I look for in a game. Including the olde Fallouts.

Black Isle is dead, there is absolutely nothing to lose by Bethesda making a F3, and everything to gain.

I'd probably be less irritated if I saw anything at all positive, even something as simple as saying "Hey, that medical area screenshot is pretty cool. Remember that sort of vent? Not too shabby."

There are such comments. In particular, a lot of people are saying that if this thing weren't called Fallout 3, they'd be elated. Why is that? Because then someone else could do Fallout 3 as a rare isometric turn-based non-FPS RPG, and Bethesda's contribution would actually add to the post-apocalyptic RPG genre, instead of effectively detracting from it. In such a small genre, as trustno1 pointed out it makes a very noticeable difference.

 

[Stag]

How often did they actually swear in F1 or F2?

 

[Pope Viper]

I know I will definitely check it out (rent, borrow from a friend or pirate) before I decide whether to buy or not. I suppose many others will do the same (hence no demo - it would hurt the sales I guess.

Dembol - We do not allow warez/pirating talk at NMA. Strike one.

 

[Sorrow]

How often did they actually swear in F1 or F2?

The word "fuck" appears only in 7 dialogue files in Fallout 1, "shit" in 20. Fallout has 621 dialogue files.

 

[Crowfoot]

How often did they actually swear in F1 or F2?

Good question Stag. The fact remains that swearing, although present, was not half as prevalent in Fallout as Todd Howard would have us believe (or at least the gaming 'press'). Even atagonistic characters such as Decker, Gizmo, Harry the super mutant and, of course, The Master did not swear (if memory serves). Indeed Decker, for all his cruelty is one of the most eloquent and well-spoken NPC's in the game, in my opinion. In Fallout 2, swearing became more prevalent as the developers got that tiny bit carried away with the setting (New Reno and that slimeball Flick in the Den spring to mind) but since Toddler and Co. have stated that they are using Fallout as more of an influence than the sequel, one would then be reasonably justified in assuming that swearing wouldn't be such a big issue in Fallout 3. Right? Wrong. As was astutely pointed out by another poster, those witty, urbane folks over at Bethesda are trying their hardest to craft a gritty, mature game by demonstrating how utterly immature they are.

 

[Stag]

Yes, well it was a partially rhetorical question, Crowfoot.

Thankya Sorrow.

It's very sad that they're now just using swearing in place of things like "quality dialogue" and "humor".

 

[Vault 69er]

The saddest thing is the dumbasses who accept it all without question.
"Oh yeah! They're swearing! They totally get Fallout, man!"

 

[Stag]

The gaming presses in general are just depressing.

 

[fedaykin]

How often did they actually swear in F1 or F2?

Less than Todd "DURRR" Howard swears at a press conference.

 

[BloodNinja]

Well, I was probably out of place just popping up in the middle of a news thread and dropping my opinion in the middle of this den of Beth-loathing (which I can understand). My last post was a bitter one I'll hand you that and I apologize for intruding. While I do understand the general feeling of chagrin in these threads what I'm really trying to get across is my hope for the game. I'm just really psyched that the franchise is alive at all and I'm looking forward to playing it, regardless of what features are removed or what retarded eye candy cluters my screen. What I love most about the series is the rp value and if there's a chance for me to walk about pretending to be someone I'm not for a few hours then it'll be a smash hit for me. Take it easy guys stay cool.

You're friendly uninformed troll Blood

 

[Black]

So, PoS 2 would also be welcome because it would mean that 'franchise is alive' ?

 

[lisac2k]

I'm just really psyched that the franchise is alive at all...

Yeah. Although it looks like a zombie, minus one hand and half of the head.

Silver bullets.

 

[Futurity]

From what i see Fallout 3 wont be immersive enough.

 

[Sorrow]

So, PoS 2 would also be welcome because it would mean that 'franchise is alive' ?

It is PoS 2 .

 

[Mick1965]

Well, I was probably out of place just popping up in the middle of a news thread and dropping my opinion in the middle of this den of Beth-loathing (which I can understand).

Sorry for jumping on you like that and calling you a troll. I've noticed a lot of uninformed first posters recently who just tell everyone to chill out and give Beth a go. Nonetheless, it's not my place to pass judgment so I shouldn't have had a go at you.

Welcome to NMA.

Mick