Fallout 3 at E3 - Jeff Green

Brother None said:
Meh. We're getting used to people taking potshots at us through podcasts. I'm sure it somehow makes you feel a lot better to use official means of transference to mock a community of people. Your call, not something I'd do, since we like keeping our frontpage and article clean off any personal attacks, but hey, you're the professionals.

I'm curious, tho', we've been around for 10 years, why the smear campaign against the Fallout community now? I admit we make it quite easy because we have a lot of nutjobs on our forum, but I note a difference between gaming journalists who come here and talk to us and gaming journalists who either already hate us (Alan Rausch) or quickly pick up on the bandwagon of flaming us (you, apparently?)
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It's not a "smear campaign," and, to lamely invoke the old "you started it" school of argument, I am only responding in kind to some pretty negative comments made towards my website, my staff, and me personally. But hey, as I said in my previous post, I actually like this site and have lurked here for years. I'm not that thin-skinned really about the personal stuff. I think what gets me more is the incredibly cynical/negative to this game already. It's just a really interesting phenomenon. I don't see how any developer could possibly live up to the expectations some folks have in their heads about what they think this game should be.

Peace,
Jeff
 
JeffGreen said:
I don't see how any developer could possibly live up to the expectations some folks have in their heads about what they think this game should be.
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No one will. They don't need to, because the point of asking a lot is that you generally get less. And we'll settle for less. Like, a logical evolution of the Fallout series. Van Buren? Did Van Buren look terrible? That would've worked. This looks more like a revolution.

It has nothing to do with us being impossible to please, more that they don't seem to be trying to please us.

But then again, I've yet to see any ingame footage. All the hype is off-putting, tho', and a lot of news simply doesn't sound good to us. Feel free to disagree, but I don't see why it'd have to be judged as "being wrong" to say it doesn't sound like what we're looking for.

(one post ahead of you, be sure to read my last post, on the previous page)
 
@ Jeff: Sup, it's cool to see someone from a mag that I read (for some odd reason, I receive a free issue of GFW every month o_O ). It's an interesting article (sort of...), and I dug your interview with Brian Fargo in there, as well. I'm sure that if we could get a little more detail on some of the stuff you saw, some haters here wouldn't be so encouraged to burn on you. :) Do it for your inner gamer, Jeff! [/lettin'-it-out]

Unless you don't want to. :silenced:

Edit: And, about the cynical stuff, and all the negative views to the game, note the "Glittering Gems of Hatred" article on the front page. It explains the dilemma pretty well. It's been so long since a quality Fallout title has been made, and the series itself has been screwed over so many times, that the fans know only to hate nowadays.
 
I agree that there is no real reason to trust the frothy gaming press articles if you haven't yet seen in-game footage. It has definitely been very hype-y, and I know that blog posts like mine don't really do anything except add to that. But that was just my off-the-cuff blog post-- my gut reaction, not a considered analysis. And, you know, there are *plenty* of big question marks that we all have about what they are doing/not doing. A healthy amount of wariness and skepticism is probably a smart thing (especially since, despite the fact that Oblvion, at least IMHO, was pretty great, Bethesda has not always batted 1.000), as is being skeptical of an easily fooled/wowed gaming press. On the other hand, taking off my editor hat and putting on my fanboy hat, I *did* see them play it for an hour and it *did* feel right and it did, in fact, make me pull out Fallout 1 and start all over again. So right now, I'm remaining hopeful. Maybe I'm just dumb.
 
JeffGreen said:
But that was just my off-the-cuff blog post-- my gut reaction, not a considered analysis. And, you know, there are *plenty* of big question marks that we all have about what they are doing/not doing.
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Well, this may be an odd question, but if that's so, why were Desslock and Dan from PC Gamer the only ones to even remotely express any kind of doubts, while the other 50 previews fell over each other praising the game?

I know this is a pretty tired critique and applies to every preview of every game, but if there are question marks, why is nobody placing them in any articles? All I see is explanation marks. And way too many of them.

JeffGreen said:
(especially since, despite the fact that Oblvion, at least IMHO, was pretty great, Bethesda has not always batted 1.000)
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I liked Oblivion. But I was quite surprised that I couldn't recognise much of anything I had read in any reviews. It was like the game described in the reviews and the game I played were completely disjointed. Very weird experience.
 
Brother None said:
Well, this may be an odd question, but if that's so, why were Desslock and Dan from PC Gamer the only ones to even remotely express any kind of doubts, while the other 50 previews fell over each other praising the game?

I know this is a pretty tired critique and applies to every preview of every game, but if there are question marks, why is nobody placing them in any articles? All I see is explanation marks. And way too many of them.
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Well I can't speak for anyone else's article. My blog post, like I said, was just random--that's not how I write in the magazine. Previews are the bane of most "game writers", to be honest. You don't want to just parrot what the devs say, because of course all they have to say is positive. On the other hand, it's hard and also a bit unfair to criticize a game that's so early on in its development. Can you imagine a movie magazine previewing, say, Spider-Man 3 when it's still a year or two out? You want to give the devs a chance.

Desslock and Dan handled it smartly---it's a conversation between two guys asking questions amongst themselves. That is a very clever way of expressing doubt without actually expressing it to the devs or even directly to the readers.

I think as more details of the game start coming out and we can write real articles based on actual information, then we will be able to have more intelligent conversations and debates on the state of the game. Instead, it's a whole bunch of us not knowing a whole lot arguing over about not much at all. That's why we love the Internet!
 
Heh, okay, point made. But as much as it is the curse of the gaming press, we'll continue to hate it. And that's what the internet is for, too, for us to bemusedly bash the large amount of factual mistakes and PR rehashing in previews.

Rubs me the wrong way. Just because some of us can read it as it is intended doesn't mean a lot of console kiddies are slobbering at what basically amounts of selective information right now. And that's stupid.

Also, is Pete Hines' description of you as "kinda old school and curmudgeonly. Take Walter Matthau, subtract five decades, have him play an ***load of video games for about 30 years, add a serious WoW addiciton, and you’ve sorta got Jeff" accurate?
 
Brother None said:
Heh, okay, point made. But as much as it is the curse of the gaming press, we'll continue to hate it. And that's what the internet is for, too, for us to bemusedly bash the large amount of factual mistakes and PR rehashing in previews.

Rubs me the wrong way. Just because some of us can read it as it is intended doesn't mean a lot of console kiddies are slobbering at what basically amounts of selective information right now. And that's stupid.

Also, is Pete Hines' description of you as "kinda old school and curmudgeonly. Take Walter Matthau, subtract five decades, have him play an ***load of video games for about 30 years, add a serious WoW addiciton, and you’ve sorta got Jeff" accurate?
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Hahahaha :) Wow, that's awesome. Where/when did he say that?
Bastard. :D
 
I trust Jeff Green a little more than I do some of the other previewers. I've had a subscription to CGW (now GFW, I guess) since I was in the 6th grade. To put that in perspective, I graduated from college in 2005. So, I've been getting GFW for a fairly long time, and I generally base my decision on whether or not to buy a game in large part on how they review the final product.

That said, what I've seen of F3 generally disappoints me. Yeah, some of it's nitpicky "consistency" stuff - like my not liking cars that cause nuclear explosions, and my not liking the Fatman - but part of it also has to do with what I've seen of gameplay.

For example, I like how combat was handled in F1 and F2. I have nothing against real time combat, or first person shooters - lord knows I play enough of them - but I get tired of that after awhile. And It seems like, nowadays, that's the only thing on the market.

I like the turn based combat in the Fallout games because it's something different. It's not so fast pace, I can take my time with it a little more, and it works very well with SPECIAL. I was really disappointed when I found out that combat in F3 will be real time. It made me feel like part of what made Fallout different and unique was ripped away from it. I'm not convinced that VATS will really give me a taste of that, as I've seen at least one preview describe the combat in F3 as "gun and run."

Right now, I'd say that if GFW gives Fallout 3 a decent review after it's released, I'll probably buy a copy. Eventually. But I'll probably also wait until I can pick it up cheap, in a bargain bin somewhere.

It just doesn't seem like it will be the game I was looking forward to all of these years. And that's disappointing.
 
Hey, Jeff, nice to see you brave these forums and talk to us.

I have a question:


Do you really consider nuclear catapults, exploding nuclear cars, drinking toilet water for healing, BoS and Supermutants on the East Coast, rifles stored in mailboxes, insulting mr. handys, killer ticket bots, Resident Evil monsters and other things to be

a smart, thoughtful, and faithful go of it.
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DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Hey, Jeff, nice to see you brave these forums and talk to us.

I have a question:


Do you really consider nuclear catapults, exploding nuclear cars, drinking toilet water for healing, BoS and Supermutants on the East Coast, rifles stored in mailboxes, insulting mr. handys, killer ticket bots, Resident Evil monsters and other things to be

a smart, thoughtful, and faithful go of it.
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Not to add dialogue quoted as "exactly" like Oblivion's, twitch gameplay, 40 hours of gameplay(With all sidequests), the Cyro gun, and stupid plot writing(A town with a nuke in the middle?).

This might be a "cool" game, but it sure the fuck isn't Fallout.
 
Great to hear something from you Mr.Green.
Just a little point, you say it would be somehow unfair toward the developers to critisize (what's more or less the same as judging) a game that's far from being done...
So why did you actually judge what you saw? And gave some positive critique? Isn't that unfair toward the potential buyers?
And aren't these buyers also customers of you? - I know game magazines can't be as badass negative as folks are here, but it can't be okay if magazines seems to be unable to remark any negativ thoughts they got...

Also, why are there so many faults in the 'reviews' of Fallout 3?
-Contradicting statements from one or the other magazine.
-Faults in statements about F1/2
-Logical faults (ISO / turnbased is dead, when Jagged Alliance 3 was with both things on the E3, i'm not saying that it will be a financal success as Fallout 3 will probably be)
-and so on...
Shouldn't good journalists try to avoid such things?

---
About the insulting posts, you know, people start acting in such ways, when nobody tries to listen to them or taking them serious and then starting making jokes of them.
And that seems to be the case.

So again, thanks for 'being here' ;)
And thanks if you answer any of my questions ;)
 
I'm listening to the podcast now. Jeff feels sad for us, all we want is an expansion for Fallout 2, there's not enough info for us to criticize anyway, rose colored glasses, but Bethesda made a great demo, the guys that say new MGS is a great game are the same, Bethesda has a lot to prove...

...while what he saw makes the game the game he wants to play the most of E3, for that there was enough info. Pretty contradictory stuff, but every guy on the podcast were coherent enough in laughing at us and criticizing us, while we seem not to be allowed to do the same about other people.


Ok then
 
Briosafreak said:
I'm listening to the podcast now. Jeff feels sad for us, all we want is an expansion for Fallout 2, there's not enough info for us to criticize anyway, rose colored glasses, but Bethesda made a great demo, the guys that say new MGS is a great game are the same, Bethesda has a lot to prove...
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Meh. Disinformation, one-sided representation of the situation,vilifyin us.

Standard fare.
 
it would be more accurate to say that people would be more welcoming of a sequel to Fallout as Starcraft 2 is to Starcraft.
 
That may well be the funniest piece of garbage I've listened to in quite a while.

Mr. Green, if you are actually still around, check out the link in my sig. NMA's POS forum is still here, and you can read nearly all of the same, tired arguments that were used in this PO<s>S</s>D cast right there. Heck, you may even get some new material, though I seriously doubt that you'll learn anything.

Now, I'm off to delete this thing to make some space for something decent, like porn.
 
Grrr, we want a game with the same setting and gameplay, but improved and tweaked such as a moveable camera perhaps and Fallout graphics in 3D.
We're not calling out for an expansion.

I am slowly getting sick and tired of these 'experts' on gaming.
 
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