Fallout 3 at E3 - NeoGAF Q&A

[radnan]

Alien ?!!!??! oh my beth .. oh my ...
.. i am just waiting for magic ... ::cough:: cough:: radiation abilities

 

[Ausir]

It probably means the Alien Blaster will make a return.

 

[whirlingdervish]

you could be right, they could be throwing us another useless bone that wasn't at all important in any of the other fallout games..

even worse, it could have to do with something entirely different like alien mind control abilities or something equally ridiculous.

You never know whats next from Bethesda...


And whats with the Cryo crap?
You are forced to assume that they are making a fucking freeze gun too!

That's even more retarded than the fatman and it stinks of FPS!
THIS ISN'T DUKE NUKEM YOU TARDS!

 

[Brother None]

A freeze gun would be a bit silly, but closer to 50s pulp than the fatman. Cryogenics has been a popular topic of sci-fi since the 20s

 

[zioburosky13]

Intelligence has a huge effect on conversation. Stephen Hawking is physically unattractive, disabled, and confined to a wheelchair. He has to rely on electronics to even speak. And yet hes one of the most powerful speakers I've ever heard.

Can't believe they are now arguing bout Charisma VS. Intelligent in speech choice over the official forum

Bye bye dumb dialog...

 

[Nim82]

If there's one thing that needs to be said about the turn-based combat is that after a while it can start to feel tedious

And realtime FPP games doesn't get tedious? *cough* DOOM3, Oblivion dungeons *cough*

I like the slow pace of turn based games, gives me time to think, have a stretch and get a coffee. Why must everything be in your face these days? Don't get me wrong, there is a place for twitchy action games, but there's also space for slower games. FO was always intended to be the later.

If FO had been a real-time shooter do you think it would still be ranked so highly in so many 'best game ever' lists? No. It was the gameplay that made it the cult classic it is... FO3 will be a flash in the pan, 10 years from now no one will give a damn about it. Like Wasteland, Fallout 1/2 will still probably be fondly remembered by as classics.

Beth could have created their own franchise if they wanted to resurrect their FPS heritage - instead they chose to turn a classic traditional turn based game into a FPP horror/survival game, and capitalise on it's cult name.

 

[Black]

Intelligence has a huge effect on conversation. Stephen Hawking is physically unattractive, disabled, and confined to a wheelchair. He has to rely on electronics to even speak. And yet hes one of the most powerful speakers I've ever heard.

Can't believe they are now arguing bout Charisma VS. Intelligent in speech choice over the official forum

Bye bye dumb dialog...

The fact is, beth-lovers will try to defend anything bethesda does.
Groin/eye shots removed- so what? They hadn't much effect in combat anyway.
Dumb dialogue removed- so what? It's charisma that decides how you talk.
No killable kids- so what? Playing as a childkiller wasn't really an option in FOs.
And so on, and so on...
Idiocracy.

 

[quetzilla]

Other factions: one of the radio stations mentioned by in game dialogue is apparently run by The Enclave.

This is official, what more do you want? An invitation?

So maybe changing things up a little bit isn't the end of the world.

Inform yourself a little bit, then come back.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. From your post it seems like you think I was saying there is a possibility that the radio station isn't in the game. I never said 'it might not be in the game', I said it might be implemented in a better way than most of you assumed it would be.

I'm sure you can think of an excuse as to why the Enclave would clandestinely run a radio station.

"Hello listeners, please kill yourselves you inferior genetically mutated scum!"

Yeah.

Your argument is baseless. You ask me to come up with a reason why the Enclave would clandestinely run a radio station. I ask you: why would they run a radio station NOT clandestinely? To me it makes much more sense for it to be clandestine, but that's just me, and although I can't really see why you think it's more likely for them to be spouting their Enclave nonsense straight onto the airwaves--I guess it's a possibility.

The thing is, my post was never arguing that the radio is clandestine and you guys are all wrong. My point was that you guys immediately assume that things will be implemented in the worst possible way, without even pausing to consider how things might be done differently.

---

In recent posts there seems to be some lamenting over the idea of 'alien' being one of the weapon types that the Energy Weapons skill covers. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the original Alien Blaster require the energy weapons skill? Yep it did.

Now, maybe the fuss is in regard to the idea that there may be more than one 'alien' weapon in the game. "That's not fallout!" the kittens cry out before Bethesda kills them and so forth. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a bunch aliens in Fallout 2? Yep, there were. Did people cry "that's not fallout!" when FO2 came out? Maybe, but I think most of us can agree that FO2 was still Fallout.

I actually played FO2 before FO1, and maybe I just have a thing for extra terrestrials, but the wanamnigos were one of my favorite parts of the game. When I had first heard FO3 was in the works (way way back in the 90's, not the current FO3) one of the things I was looking forward to the most was to see if the aliens played more of a part in the story. Well now it looks like they just might, so color me excited.

And whats with the Cryo crap?
You are forced to assume that they are making a fucking freeze gun too!

You know you're probably right, there probably is a freeze gun. What makes that not fallout? The fact that there weren't any freeze guns in FO1 or FO2? Like someone else said after you, freeze guns do fit into the 50's pulp sci-fi theme present in Fallout. In fact, a freeze-gun sounds like it could be a pretty cool weapon to play around with. Why is any of this bad?

And realtime FPP games doesn't get tedious? *cough* DOOM3, Oblivion dungeons *cough*

I didn't even finish the Doom 3 DEMO because it was tedious, and I explained in my first post that I felt the same way about Oblivion (go back and read it if you didn't the first time). I never endorsed FPP games, I just said changing things up a little bit from the pure turn-based system might be a good thing.

I like the slow pace of turn based games, gives me time to think, have a stretch and get a coffee. Why must everything be in your face these days? Don't get me wrong, there is a place for twitchy action games, but there's also space for slower games. FO was always intended to be the later.

FO was ALWAYS intended to be a slower game? Go play the van buren tech demo. They may have included turn-based, but there was also an option for real-time (BLASPHEMY!). Even 10 years ago the original crew realized that turn-based gameplay couldn't stand on it's own forever.

If FO had been a real-time shooter do you think it would still be ranked so highly in so many 'best game ever' lists? No. It was the gameplay that made it the cult classic it is... FO3 will be a flash in the pan, 10 years from now no one will give a damn about it. Like Wasteland, Fallout 1/2 will still probably be fondly remembered by as classics.

If FO had been a turn-based RPG game in a typical magic and elves setting, would it still be ranked so highly in many 'best game ever' lists? No. It wasn't just the gameplay that made it a classic, it was ALSO the dark humor, engaging storyline, unique setting, memorable characters, etc etc. Maybe Bethesda will get it right with FO3, and maybe they won't, but let's be realistic here -- if they just updated the FO2 engine with better graphics and left everything else the same, the sum total of people who would buy that would probably be the same as the number of members on this forum. Now I would love to play that game, as I'm sure many of you would, but the reality is that this is a business, and companies need to sell product, and if that means FO3 needs to be "updated" a bit to get the drooling masses to buy it, well then that's just the price of doing business.

Beth could have created their own franchise if they wanted to resurrect their FPS heritage - instead they chose to turn a classic traditional turn based game into a FPP horror/survival game, and capitalise on it's cult name.

Have you played the game? Because if you have then I'll just delete my profile right now and go kill some kittens or something. But I'm willing to bet that you haven't actually played the game, so this talk about FO3 being a survival horror game is pretty much rampant speculation on your part. Let's have this chat again in 08 and see if you're right.

-quetzilla

 

[Per]

In recent posts there seems to be some lamenting over the idea of 'alien' being one of the weapon types that the Energy Weapons skill covers. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the original Alien Blaster require the energy weapons skill? Yep it did.

The Alien Blaster was an Easter egg that carried over to the second game. Having something similar in Fo3 is not high on the list of complaints here.

I actually played FO2 before FO1, and maybe I just have a thing for extra terrestrials, but the wanamnigos were one of my favorite parts of the game.

Wanamingos were extraterrestrials? Did you try looking that up in the Fallout Bible?

FO was ALWAYS intended to be a slower game? Go play the van buren tech demo. They may have included turn-based, but there was also an option for real-time (BLASPHEMY!).

Not by the developers' choice.

Even 10 years ago the original crew realized that turn-based gameplay couldn't stand on it's own forever.

Now you're just making things up.

Let's have this chat again in 08 and see if you're right.

And until then we just assume that nothing we are shown or told really means anything?

 

[Nim82]

Even 10 years ago the original crew realized that turn-based gameplay couldn't stand on it's own forever.

Wrong! - I strongly suggest you read the article here on the development of Fallout. Regarding turnbased:

Tim Cain has noted "I think the strength of Fallout's combat system is that it was easy to understand and use, but still complex enough to give you many options on how to fight. Turn-based combat gives you more time to think of battle tactics, so combat feels richer - and a lot of people responded to that." Additionally, Tim explained "It also showed how popular and fun turn-based combat could be, when everyone else was going with real-time or pause-based combat."

On VB, what Per said.

Regarding popularity, if Baldur's Gate (about as generic fantasy as you can get) can be held in high esteem by many today, I am quite sure the same game with turn-based would also be held in high regard. I concede Fallout was 'different' and that played a part, but it's not as original as you think - it owes an awful lot to Wasteland. As much as I love Fallout, the story isn't that great either - not compared to PST and Arcanum. Put simply the gameplay is what made the game, the theme was the special sauce on top.

if that means FO3 needs to be "updated" a bit to get the drooling masses to buy it, well then that's just the price of doing business.

Updated is fine, but FPP is not 'updating' its 'changing' - take a look at Troika's prototype game for what a 'modern' Fallout could have looked like. Isometric isn't dead. If it was dead NWN2 would have bombed, Bioware wouldn't be developing Dragon Age, and practically every MMO would have flopped. TB likewise isn't dead, Stardock would be in trouble with GalCivII if it was. I refer you to the quote below on why Beth are doing it the way they are:

We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well.
Sourceete Hines

Emphasis on the 'we', Bethesda haven't even attempted a Baldur's Gate type game - they have always been a FPP studio. The fact they are making F3 FPP has more to do with them being a one trick pony, with a reluctance to try something different than any deficiency in Fallout's core values.

On playing F3 - No, I haven't played it, but Todd Howard has, and he told his friends at Game Informer what kind of game it would be. I guess they must be speculating too?

There was so much more to Fallout than the angle you viewed it at, or how combat was resolved. ... At it’s core, it’s a survival game.
Source: Todd Howard

Imagine a survival horror-esque version of the Fallout world...
Source: Game Informer

I don't know if that greenlights you to kill some kittens, or not. I haven't played the game, but I have quoted the lead designer and their PR machine validating my statement...

As Per has said on the Wanamingos, they were not Aliens.

 

[Vault 69er]

Your argument is baseless. You ask me to come up with a reason why the Enclave would clandestinely run a radio station. I ask you: why would they run a radio station NOT clandestinely? To me it makes much more sense for it to be clandestine, but that's just me, and although I can't really see why you think it's more likely for them to be spouting their Enclave nonsense straight onto the airwaves--I guess it's a possibility.

I'm asking why would the Enclave, an insular and secret organisation, run a radio station at all? To what end?

The thing is, my post was never arguing that the radio is clandestine and you guys are all wrong. My point was that you guys immediately assume that things will be implemented in the worst possible way, without even pausing to consider how things might be done differently.

I'm merely mocking the concept. The Enclave shouldn't be here. They're dead. Gone. Kaput. Why can't Bethesda come up with their own factions? What next? The return of Unity?

 

[Placid]

The Enclave shouldn't be here. They're dead. Gone. Kaput. Why can't Bethesda come up with their own factions? What next? The return of Unity?

Of course they're not dead.. they merely...ehm... migrated to the east along with the super mutants (and seemingly every other faction)..

I can really see it now.. a colonisation effort much along the same lines as your average western movie, just in the opposite direction.. with mutants, BoS and the Enclave holding hands... bah

 

[Vault 69er]

The Enclave shouldn't be here. They're dead. Gone. Kaput. Why can't Bethesda come up with their own factions? What next? The return of Unity?

Of course they're not dead.. they merely...ehm... migrated to the east along with the super mutants (and seemingly every other faction)..

I can really see it now.. a colonisation effort much along the same lines as your average western movie, just in the opposite direction.. with mutants, BoS and the Enclave holding hands... bah

And yet, neither the BoS, the Super Mutants or the Enclave seem to have a use for all those nuclear reactors in cars laying around.
This'd be funny if it weren't really happening.

 

[lisac2k]

You guys hear 'one of the radio stations is supposedly run by the Enclave'...

Other factions: one of the radio stations mentioned by in game dialogue is apparently run by The Enclave.

This is official, what more do you want? An invitation?

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. From your post it seems like <snip>

Now mister, this could be considered a kind of trolling, but I'll let the others to judge about it.

I told you nice to go and inform yourself. Instead of that, the folks like Per, Nim82 and Vault69er have to inform you.

Replay, slow motion.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

Now mister, this could be considered a kind of trolling, but I'll let the others to judge about it.

I told you nice to go and inform yourself. Instead of that, the folks like Per, Nim82 and Vault69er have to inform you.

Replay, slow motion.

Off topic, but anyway: can people please stop calling "Troll", when they're faced with someone doing one of the following; who seems as though they might be making a poor argument; defending themselves against an accusation of such; is a Bethesda apologist; is a Bethesda fan; is ignorant of some fairly obscure Fallout fact; is ignorant of a fairly easily researchable fact, but is too stupid/naive to do so...

Don't feed the Troll if you don't want it to bite, but don't clutter up threads with accusations of Trolling, when all they're really doing is ineffectually disagreeing with you.

If someone is making an obviously stupid point, then give them enough rope to hang themselves..., but let them finish the job themselves.

As I said, this is off topic, it certainly clutters up the thread, exactly like those accusations of "Troll"...

 

[Vault 69er]

Being lazy enough to not check facts or being deliberately ignorant but posting your easily refutable point anyway is considered trolling, is it not?

 

[Salkinius]

I usually tend to disagree with most of you regarding your critisism towards Fallout 3.

But, I'm getting worn out.

If Inteligence isn't needed in dialogue, then what is it for? What other situation in the game (F3 or originals) was inteligence needed?

As you perhaps know, I understand why Bethesda wants BoS in the game, and I suppose I will believe Bethesdas explaination (when we get it either in the game or earlier) how they got to DC. But the Enclave? They were destroyed!! They were top secret and they were on the west coast!!!

One of these two military factions (BoS) might have moved east somehow, but both of them?

The only positive about the enclave running a radio station is that it makes sense that a political/military party/faction runs it. They have the resources and the motive to run a station. But the Enclave????

Couldn't they just make something up here?

The Enclave sure doesn't share the same fame as the BoS does in the Fallout franchise. So why add them?

 

[Black]

I wonder if we'll see Metzger on the East Coast...

 

[Elros]

---

 

[yevinorion]

Hmmm, I'm a little disappointed in their choice to not allow INT to affect dialogue. After all, then you can drop your INT stat and still have normal conversations and then use the points for other stats. There has to be some sort of penalty for having a low INT, so I hope if they take this out, they put something in to counter it.

Groin shot is a maybe.

I hope in this case "maybe = yes".