Fallout 3 first footage

[Kyuu]

I personally think it is a good idea that Bethesda is doing what they do best, as I would prefer to play a fairly good action-rpg then a bad turn based rpg which would likely be the result of Bethesda trying to make a turn based game.

Exactly the reason Bethesda should never have purchased the Fallout license to begin with. Although I wouldn't classify Oblivion as a fairly good at anything except for the hype behind it.

And using an engine they are familiar with also seems like a good idea as if frees up more time to work on the game's content rather then the engine.

Well, they better have some freaking steller quests, an astoudingly awesome main storyline, and the best dialogue in the history of gaming. I mean, since they obviously spent absolutely no effort in improving anything (which was most everything) that was luckluster with Oblivion's engine (combat, animations, character models, AI, physics, ragdoll, etc.).

 

[fedaykin]

Did anyone notice how he avoided the table with lots of items on it? I'll bet...they'd have gone flying in every direction as soon as he touched them. Now THAT never gets old.

 

[Havok4]

Well, they better have some freaking steller quests, an astoudingly awesome main storyline, and the best dialogue in the history of gaming. I mean, since they obviously spent absolutely no effort in improving anything (which was most everything) that was luckluster with Oblivion's engine (combat, animations, character models, AI, physics, ragdoll, etc.).

The AI and physics are the only issues that would really bother me. The rest are merely visuals and can be ignored if other aspects of the game are enjoyable. Although there is one potential engine worry I have and that is Bethesda is not famed for the stability of their game engines and the frequent crashes might be an issue.

 

[Seraphim Pwns U]

Been a while since I've posted here...

After watching the demo, I have to say that I'm done... done hopin' for something that rivals FO1/2... done with Bethesda. *sighs heavily, grits teeth*... I personally think *now* would be an appropriate time to do that 29-reasons-why-FO3-sucks... but I could list 29 from that demo alone.

Does anyone else get the feeling that game companies are all about the money, and no longer about the quality? Is it that our standards are too high, having been spoiled from FO, PS:T, and Arcanum (and 90% of the RPGs a decade prior)? Or is it that all the good developers have left the business?

You know... I had tried my utmost to remain neutral, to try to see the good in FO3... but for every step forward, two were taken back... and the demo negated all its efforts to go forward.

Welp... I can only hope Bethesda likes their new fanbase. Come FO4, they'll be brushed aside just as a lot of us original fans were. Best of luck to 'em- they won't be 'round for long if they keep it up. They lost both a Fallout fan and an old-TES fan in me.

 

[Ranne]

I just had to come and see what the 'hardcore' Fallout community had to say about the trailer, and boy were my assumptions correct.

In all seriousness though, it seems you guys want to dislike the game, regardless of the positive aspects of it.

Could it be that some of us have higher standards and more experience when it comes to videogaming? I really didn't want to dislike this game, but I don't think it Bethesda gave me much choice in making this preference.

I don't find the whole "it's not like previous Fallouts but it's a good game nonetheless" rhetoric entirely unreasonable, but right now I just don't see any noticeably good qualities about this title, Fallout game or not. Here is a [very minor] list of things I have a problem with:

- For a 2008 (PC) game, the game's graphics look downright inadequate. The animations are truly abysmal. Character designs are mediocre at best. The greenish Xbox-oriented HUD is worse than bad. If I'd created something like this during my game development career, it would undoubtedly have been less prolific. There aren't any object shadows. The whole artistic direction is uninspired. Look at the roof of the Capitol building:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2970
Does this low-poly, low-res model really look good? What about the rest of the picture that can even remotely be called aesthetically pleasing? Be honest.

- From what I saw, the enemies' AI is really, really primitive. Look at the gameplay footage: they either stand there or run right straight at you with no regard to their surroundings. The close range battle looked particularly bad, seemingly much worse than sword'n'shield combat present in Oblivion.

- Infantile humor and overabundance of blood and gore. I don't know what to tell about both of these. I guess there are people out there who may consider exploding bloodbags (see, the "losing all 4 limbs and the head from a single gunshot" part of the trailer) cool and awesome and fried squirrels or dead people hugging funny, but I am certainly not one of them. Besides, most of what I saw looks unnatural and overdone.

- Myriads of inconsistencies, bad design choices, and factual mistakes of all kinds. This one may be a minor thing for many of you but it is pretty important to me, especially considering the fact that the game is officially an RPG. 200-year-old couch in almost perfect condition? Chinese propaganda broadcasts from centuries ago? Radioactive "magic" spells in what is supposedly a sci-fi setting? Magical compass, fast travel, and dozens of other Oblivion leftovers that were bad to begin with? Radiation that doesn't kill? When you have a couple of questions like this, they really start to pile up and affect your impression of the game.

- Gameplay. From what I heard and what I saw on those 5 minutes of the game's footage, Fallout 3 seems like a first-person shooter with a few RPG elements. The FPS part of it looked like it was taken from 2002. No cover system, no tactical AI, no vehicles, no penetrable materials, no interactive surroundings, nothing really notable except for the overabundant "lotsa blood" effect. As for the RPG part, it largely remains to be seen. From what I know, however, there's nothing about it to be excited about. The game environment is ridiculously small, about 3 by 4 miles if I remember correctly. The leveling system seems pretty boring. The dialog system certainly looks aged. There's no indication it will be even remotely as advanced as the system used, say, by Mass Effect. Again, poorly made characters do not look particularly interesting. One look at the cowboy hat wearing mayor and you already know what he is going to say. And what about the whole "Here's a nuclear catapult, now go find your <mysteriously> daddy" storyline? Who in the right mind can find this idea praiseworthy?

As you can see, there's a lot of things one can find that are wrong with this game. Now, if you really like it, could you please name me some things about it that are right and original and more than barely sufficient? Some things about Fallout 3 that can really justify the amount of hype this game gets? I sure can't name any.

 

[horse]

youve nailed it right there ranne

personally, i couldnt care less for shiny graphics et, if the story, characters, anything just draws me in. problem may be, that, with the years, ones taste refines - that goes not only for games, but every kind of media, cultural interaction, name it. i enjoy games that impress me with great graphics, like crysis, but those are "one play-through" games. fallout doesnt knock me out of my shoes in that aspect.

the fallout story and this imaginative game-"world" in the original fallouts kept me playing for a long time, and theres still new things to do and to discover. same goes with torment, sshock2, operation flashpoint. strangely, those games have a very active, but very small (in comparison to pokemans!!1) fanbase, which to a degree consists of people with similar real- and virtual life background (an exaggerated assumption!). i feel at home there, which sounds a bit quirky, but the online part of my free time is best spent lurking around nma and other fora. so, from what i have learned by playing morrowind and oblivion, there are neither story nor choice/consequence captivating enough to let those gaming experiences live through another play-through (tbh, i didnt even finish oblivion).

so, i am not that extremely surprised that many nma-member state similar likings and dislikings for fallout 3. this is far from mindless bethesda-bashing. most concerns that are voiced here were backed by solid argumentations. if those statements got out of hand, one of the major reasons is the annoying information policy of bethesda, namely the omitting of facts or outright denial of (quite obvious) game designs.

that means:

- a lot of nma members are just used to good, consistent and gripping storylines.
- there are not many here, that enjoy games based on their outward appearance ONLY (they enjoy them, of course, but dont waste to much time or thought on them)
- most of us could lead very successful lifes WITHOUT any relaunch of the fallout franchise (imagine THAT!)
- some here devote a lot of time (either free time or work time) to games, their development and, if you will, their "history"
- a lot of distrust towards beth has sprung from the outright denials (i wont say 'lies') regarding elemental game designs and decisions
- from what we have seen from the game yet, it fails to impress me and many other nma members on the graphical side, the gameplay seems ok so far; "story" hasnt hit the news yet, but there is a lot of distrust, given what we had in morrowind and oblivion... and dont get me started on choice/consequence

so... you have a bunch of people, experienced in gaming/development, used to good games over the last 10+ years - otoh, there is a company that is basically known for very good pr (tho their key figures are as charismatic as uwe boll), and 2 games which for the most old-timers are 'meh' or 'ok'.

when you look at that, i am actually surprised that there is so LITTLE flaming and mindless bashing.

also, tits or gtfo!

 

[Neverwinter27]

The demo looks ok, I'll probably try the game out this year. Since no one here is going to play it, I'll tell you guys of my accounts and exploits in the DC wasteland for actual judgment of the game.

 

[horse]

funny and snide remark, herr neverwinter!

actually, i will buy this game, no matter what. it seems to be a good game, if you put all your expectations to rest. now, that came out strangely.

i am just aware of the contrast i see between what was possible in the fallout universe, and what was done. i expected a truly exceptional game, one that is developed maybe once in every five years (and THATS a long timeline in an industry with such short product cycles). what i saw up til now is all but exceptional, tho i would never say that it is outright bad. it is just... ok. just think of me as the generic guy driving a midclass mercedes but craves for a ferrari.

 

[Havok4]

funny and snide remark, herr neverwinter!

actually, i will buy this game, no matter what. it seems to be a good game, if you put all your expectations to rest. now, that came out strangely.

i am just aware of the contrast i see between what was possible in the fallout universe, and what was done. i expected a truly exceptional game, one that is developed maybe once in every five years (and THATS a long timeline in an industry with such short product cycles). what i saw up til now is all but exceptional, tho i would never say that it is outright bad. it is just... ok. just think of me as the generic guy driving a midclass mercedes but craves for a ferrari.

I share a similar view of the game but I also will try to reserve judgment of the game until I have played it for at least and hour. Also I don't crave a Ferrari as much as a space ship with full hyperdrive capabilities.

 

[analord]

One issue that I don't think has received sufficient - if any - comment so far, is that the pacing of battles has been completely altered; it's not as if they just switched Fallout to realtime, they've also switched the pacing, feeling, vibe, spirit, character, soul, whatever you wish to call it, to most closely resemble, as far as I can tell, Serious Sam.

Consider how many back-and-forth shots might be taken in FO 1 or 2. It wouldn't be unusual for it to take approximately half a dozen shots or two grenades to dispatch one enemy, if you had fair skill points. But in this gameplay footage, we can see that each enemy hardly has time to pop up before it's beaten; there's no time to exercise any sort of tactics, no time to absorb the battle, no time do anything but clickfest. The pacing has devolved completely, into an arcade-y pandemonium. Contrast this pacing to STALKER's.

Also sadly missing are any sort of taunts or exclamations from enemies.

Furthermore it looks like they're getting a bunch of interns to do the voices of the raiders. Looks like Fallout 3 is going to fail in the sound department like it's predecessor, Oblivion.

 

[Neverwinter27]

Hey guys I just saw the demo. All I can say is that In the words of AVGN it's like "shit taking a shit". First generation Quake had better textures than what was shown. Also, where they trying to annoy everyone with that music from the eyebot, I guess there is little to no quality control, even when you are trying to make a first impression for a 4 miniute demo. What was even more annoying was Todd's voice jesus christ its like that guy never dropped his balls. Then we have the main combat. A pin prick on an enemy and random body parts just explode or come off like legos. Yeah, thats what Fallout is all about.

 

[Ranne]

Yes, I realize that the core fans of the game are similar to overprotective fathers, in that no one is, and ever will be good enough for their little precious...

As far as I know, most criticisms of Diablo 3 are pretty mild and forgiving. They certainly have little to do with the reaction of Fallout fans on Fallout 3. You make it sound like there aren't any successful sequels out there and it is absolutely not true - I could provide you with dozens of good examples of that.

I also like how you managed to entirely dismiss my previous post and just keep going with this ridiculous "overprotective fathers" rant instead. I played both Fallouts years ago, and, even though I did enjoy both of them thoroughly, I would never consider myself to be a serious Fallout fan. More importantly, all of the criticisms of Fallout 3 I mentioned in my earlier post have absolutely nothing to do with its prequels. With that in mind, I suggest that your post is deliberately misinforming and misleading.

Im still remaining neutral on my stance for Fallout 3, that is until it is released, and in my console, and played through. Then I'll decide to praise or crucify the end product.

That's one more thing worth mentioning. I knew some people back in 2000 who said almost exactly the same thing you said, only about George Walker Bush. I guess some people can recognize the stench of fecal matter for miles...and some can't. Or, perhaps, they don't really want to, who knows...

 

[analord]

Blizzard isn't exactly making Diablo 3 a first person shooter with the option of third person. Some things are just inappropriate and aren't even defensible.

Fact is Bethesda is making most of their decisions out of drunken laziness. It is bad enough that they're making a game on a engine that doesn't really suit it, but they haven't even altered the engine much, mostly the skins. Plus they're using the same bears, wolfs, horses and probably panthers.

edit: the point is nothing in this game should even make me think of Oblivion. [yelling] this is oblivion. with guns and flaming dicks. fuck. [/yelling]

I know you're a troll. But god damn. Broken analogy there.

 

[pnutz]

I was actually going to say something to the effect of 'Cry Moar', but thats just unbecoming of me.

Good call. You would have looked pretty stupid and desperate.

Yes, I realize that the core fans of the game are similar to overprotective fathers, in that no one is, and ever will be good enough for their little precious, and I would go as far as saying not even the original Fallout development team could satisfy them anymore if they made the sequel instead of Bethesda.

Because Bethesda is the 2nd best choice?

I would say this because even Blizzard's recently announced Diablo 3, which is being developed internally, is also not safe from early criticism from its fans. If their own fans don't have faith in even one of the premier developers in the world, what does this say about the current generation of gamers?

Safe from criticism? You mean it's perfect, yet they still voice their opinions about changes to the design instead of glossing over and drooling? These kids nowadays.

And in this, I would also say a Godspeed to anyone who would dare to revive the X-Com franchise, which will be inevitable.

I'm not sure how to tell you this... but I've got some bad news.

 

[Seraphim Pwns U]

I'm not sure how to tell you this... but I've got some bad news.

Ya know, you'd think by now, that devs would learn "Change the core of a game, and you're screwin' yourself over".

I can't think of any game that took a radical departure from its previously successful formula, called it a sequel, and had it skyrocket to fame.

 

[Moving Target]

I've been thinking about this for a few minutes.

You're totally right. Even in the case of games where the position of "technical limitations didn't let us do this, so now we're doing it" and it *worked*, the devs didn't dare call the games a true sequel.

EG- Metroid Prime and the very enjoyable Ninja Gaiden Black. Both are good examples of "evolved" game play, but neither is a "true" sequel.

This one... well, I don't even need to say anything. The massive idiocy speaks for itself.

 

[analord]

Come to think of it, Bethesda couldn't find a better set of fans to demonize.

If Beth tried doing this to pokemon fans...

"Do you like pokemon? So do we! That's why we're changing EVERYTHING."

I was reading an old gamer informer mag and I saw preview for Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or whatever. Bashing Fallout fans is pretty standard unfortunately for some fan sites.

 

[Moving Target]

Come to think of it, Bethesda couldn't find a better set of fans to demonize.

Sure they could!

They could've alienated Star Trek fans..... oh. Never mind.

Fallout fans just happened to be in the way, really. Could've been another group of fans if Beth had taken as many liberties with whatever IP they bought.

 

[analord]

What they did to Star Trek fans was rape. Oh it's time for release? kthxbai.

At least we're not gullible. Just a tad bitter.

 

[Moving Target]

And we have the benefit of hindsight with regards to Bethsoft's promises and past interactions with various fans.

I'm very glad we're not behind the 8 ball on this one.