Fallout 3 hits Steam

[whirlingdervish]

Level 20 has no dialog related perk.

well at level 20 you'll be too busy killing muties who stand outside of cover while you shoot them, to talk to anyone.

seriously tho, by the time the average Fallout 3 player reaches level 20, I don't expect many NPCs that have meaningful dialogue to still be alive unless they're unkillable or have nothing of value. (nor a cowboy hat/pair of magic clothes)

 

[Humpsalot]

Scoundrel
Ranks Available: 3
Requirements: Charisma 4
Take the Scoundrel perk, and you can use your wily charms to influence
people -- each rank raises your Speech and Barter skills by 5 points.

Do you think the ONLY thing scoundrel does is raid your Speech and Barter 5 points? Or do you think there will be a "Scoundrel" speech option like a "charm" or "intimidate"

Also, do you think you can take "here and now" at lvl 20 to reach lvl 21?

 

[ajen]

As of right now, the link is dead. I don't know if its temporary or what

 

[Anani Masu]

That's silly, no RPG works like that. Hell, most RPGs work a lot more restricting, with a class system.

But every RPG offers relevant choices at the start. The choices you make at the start should have a significant impact on the course of the game. Tags still do for Fallout 3, but traits are out and this nonsense cripples the importance of the characteristics.

What? I'm not even sure how to parse that. Almost all RPGs (at least WRPGS) allows you some control in directing your characters developement. You make choices about which skills/stats to dump points into, pick out your equipment/nanomods/etc. And though it is often lacking, you also have choices to make in the storyline that develope your character's personality. Or failing that, you usually have control over what kinds of quests you do and how you do them.

I'd say the choices you make at the start are certainly relevant. Getting a wild hair up your ass and deciding to turn your weak hacker character into an unarmed beast involves a lot of opportunity cost. You have to devote a lot of levels to trying to change your character and other aspects will suffer for it.

Ohh and I just want to make sure, you know that tags don't double invested skill points for f3 right?

Level 20 has no dialog related perk.

So? The originals didn't have any dialogue related perks past 12.

 

[Brother None]

What? I'm not even sure how to parse that. Almost all RPGs (at least WRPGS) allows you some control in directing your characters developement.

Yes. Inside the limits of the choices you make at the beginning. In D&D, you can't start switching classes halfway through the game.

SPECIAL basically has the same setup: traits, characteristics and tagged skills all set you on a path of development. You refine your character, but you can't undo your original choices, and they are vitally important to what kind of character you end up with.

What you're talking about is closer to those games where you just start with a blank character - like Gothic - and the choices you make on levelling up completely determine your character. Fallout was always separate from that, and that was a logical extension of its choice 'n consequence core philosophy, which Bethesda completely failed to understand.

Ohh and I just want to make sure, you know that tags don't double invested skill points for f3 right?

+15% instead right? Even dumber. Bethesda's version of SPECIAL is no SPECIAL.

As of right now, the link is dead. I don't know if its temporary or what

No, Bethesda must've asked Valve to remove the guide. Doesn't matter, we'll put the relevant info up soon enough.

 

[Rohit_N]

It's still available.

http://cdn.steampowered.com/Manuals/22300/fallout3_us_pc_manual.pdf?t=1224882949

 

[ZooDiac_CZ]

if you cant download it, here you go

http://www.quickshare.cz/stahnout-soubor/12732:fallout3_en_pc_manual-pdf_3MB

click on button with text Stáhnout

 

[docho]

Did anyone notice the absence of "Havok" at the end of the manual?

 

[Anani Masu]

Yes. Inside the limits of the choices you make at the beginning. In D&D, you can't start switching classes halfway through the game.

Ummm, yes you can.

SPECIAL basically has the same setup: traits, characteristics and tagged skills all set you on a path of development. You refine your character, but you can't undo your original choices, and they are vitally important to what kind of character you end up with.

What you're talking about is closer to those games where you just start with a blank character - like Gothic - and the choices you make on levelling up completely determine your character. Fallout was always separate from that, and that was a logical extension of its choice 'n consequence core philosophy, which Bethesda completely failed to understand.

I think you make a mistake when you say Bethesda, and earlier me, don't understand it. I understand it and disagree. I don't share your massive boner for locking a character's path in from the outset and seemingly neither does Bethesda.

+15% instead right? Even dumber. Bethesda's version of SPECIAL is no SPECIAL.

This change only makes it harder to level up in many different skills since you effectively have less skillpoints.

 

[Brother None]

Ummm, yes you can.

Adding isn't switching.

I think you make a mistake when you say Bethesda, and earlier me, don't understand it. I understand it and disagree. I don't share your massive boner for locking a character's path in from the outset and seemingly neither does Bethesda.

That's fine, then play RPGs that don't have this. It's a core concept in Fallout's design philosophy, and I don't see why Fallout has to adapt to your opinion (sadly it does to Bethesdas, which is too bad since they seem to dislike so much of the game)

This change only makes it harder to level up in many different skills since you effectively have less skillpoints.

Word is you can have maxed out 4 skills at level 20 in Fallout 3. Impossible in previous Fallouts.

 

[frosty_theaussie]

Some of those perks disturbe me.

"Explorer"? "Cyborg"? "GRIM REAPERS SPRINT"?!?!

Grim Reaper's Sprint is the worst goddamn idea and name ever. Usually Fallout's traits/perks kind of have a basis in reality, like a really magnetic personality or disposition towards one or both hands and that makes them believable quirks but... how the hell does that work? Can't believe that was the winner of the perk comp.

 

[Brother None]

Grim Reaper's Sprint was the perk contest winner, it's fanmade

 

[PaladinHeart]

Only 4 skills? It seems like I could easily cover several skills in the original fallout games. Then again, that is considering several of them can be upped via skill books.

Edit: I should probably reinstall them and see just how much tweaking I can possibly do with 10 intelligence, skilled, etc..

 

[Gentlemen]

Why did they put picture of X360 controller in PC manual? Anyway, game will probably suck since it's yet another game that had to be dumbed down for console users. Hopefully, Bethesda will release construction set soon so we can make something good out of it.

Because a dumb PC gamer is unheard of. /end sarcasm

 

[Anani Masu]

Adding isn't switching.

How is that anything but a semantic dodge? If you make a strength 10 brawler in fallout 3 and then decide you only want to use plasma weapons you don't get a refund on those points.

That's fine, then play RPGs that don't have this. It's a core concept in Fallout's design philosophy, and I don't see why Fallout has to adapt to your opinion (sadly it does to Bethesdas, which is too bad since they seem to dislike so much of the game)

Just because I prefer that style doesn't mean I hate all games that do limit you. I don't consider it a core part of what fallout was to me, and luckily, my opinion coincides with the people in charge of the IP.

Word is you can have maxed out 4 skills at level 20 in Fallout 3. Impossible in previous Fallouts.

Only because the max was set at an absurd 200%/300%. You could certainly get a half dozen skills high enough to pass any of the relevant skill checks which, as far as I can recall, don't go beyond 125%. Anyway I was speaking in the context of being able to gain skills in fallout 3.

 

[Brother None]

How is that anything but a semantic dodge?

I dunno, how is it a semantic dodge? Are you saying there's no structural difference between being able to later add to the pre-existing core character configuration (Tag!) or being able to switch tacks in such a way that your pre-existing core character configuration can be discarded? Because I was talking about the latter, not the former.

I don't consider it a core part of what fallout was to me, and luckily, my opinion coincides with the people in charge of the IP.

Unluckily, nobody cares about what Fallout was "to you", anymore than any one should care what Fallout was "to me". The fact that Bethesda dislikes the very IP they're in charge of isn't exactly a good prop up for your argument.

Anyway I was speaking in the context of being able to gain skills in fallout 3.

And I was answering in that context. "Tag doesn't double up invested skill points so there are less skill points to spend" is true, but your conclusion "it makes it hard to level up in many different skills" is false since you fail to factor in that skills now only go up to 100, that perks adding to skills are now more numerous and that books are more significant. In other words: no, it's not harder to level up in many different skills in Fallout 3.

From what I've understood. I could be wrong, but that we'll see.

 

[Ausir]

In other words: no, it's not harder to level up in many different skills in Fallout 3.

You forgot to mention the fact that increasing a skill by 1% always cost 1 skill point now. It doesn't become progressively more expensive the higher it is anymore.

 

[Anani Masu]

I dunno, how is it a semantic dodge? Are you saying there's no structural difference between being able to later add to the pre-existing core character configuration (Tag!) or being able to switch tacks in such a way that your pre-existing core character configuration can be discarded? Because I was talking about the latter, not the former.

Please explain how Fallout 3 switches instead of adds. Every decision after you get out of the Vault is permanent. In fact it's more permanent than the old fallout's since you can't Mutate! and change a previous decision. You can't discard your old character configuration in fallout 3, you can only add to it.

Unluckily, nobody cares about what Fallout was "to you", anymore than any one should care what Fallout was "to me". The fact that Bethesda dislikes the very IP they're in charge of isn't exactly a good prop up for your argument.

Bethesda doesn't dislike the IP and neither do I. You know what though? I don't always think the original teams made the right decisions. The "core concepts of the Fallout design philosophy" are not holy writ.

And I was answering in that context. "Tag doesn't double up invested skill points so there are less skill points to spend" is true, but your conclusion "it makes it hard to level up in many different skills" is false since you fail to factor in that skills now only go up to 100, that perks adding to skills are now more numerous and that books are more significant. In other words: no, it's not harder to level up in many different skills in Fallout 3.

From what I've understood. I could be wrong, but that we'll see.

All I said was that not doubling tag skills in fallout 3 makes it harder than it would have been otherwise in fallout 3. You're the one who brought in whether or not it would be harder compared to the originals.

 

[Brother None]

Please explain how Fallout 3 switches instead of adds.

Never said it did.

Bethesda doesn't dislike the IP and neither do I. You know what though? I don't always think the original teams made the right decisions. The "core concepts of the Fallout design philosophy" are not holy writ.

So how exactly would you define the game if not by its core design?

All I said was that not doubling tag skills in fallout 3 makes it harder than it would have been otherwise in fallout 3.

Oh ok, I assumed you were comparing it to the originals since you were quoting a remark where I compared Bethesda's SPECIAL to the original and since you were talking about a change - which I could only figure was a "change" relative to something that already exists, not a change relative to itself.

My bad.

 

[sbelton]

I am saddened by the absence of recipes from the back of the manual.