Re: Shared failings: rose-colored glasses and the FO/TES gam
Fair point on the technical issues, but that's been a factor for both the FO and TES games. It was the case two years ago for Oblivion, five years ago for Morrowind, and ten years ago for Fallout. Sadly, it's the price of a complex, highly interactive engine and a reliance upon scripted events for quest advancement.
Bethsoft releases amazingly good betas that are compelling enough to keep playing. They release games that would be considered ridiculously buggy and unacceptable final products if they came from other developers, and I can't deny that. However, there's more than enough depth and breadth in those buggy games that the effort it takes to get past those issues are well rewarded. These bugs are inevitably the result of Bethsoft trying to cram so much stuff into a single engine and world, and... well, pretty much skimming on the AI.
That said, I'm having enough fun in FO3 to get past that. Vault-crawling, roaming the Wasteland, exploring the many many many things to discover is completely worth getting past the bugs. At the end of the day, I feel like the Vaultdweller/Chosen One, because of good enough visual design and humor. It's not Black Isle level, but it's much better than Bethsoft's previous works (which themselves were compelling in their own way).
UniversalWolf said:
Bloody William said:
I'm new, but I'm very honestly not trying to troll in any way, nor am I apologizing for what are distinct, undeniable flaws in Fallout 3. However, I'm amazed by the kneejerk hatred for the game on this board.
I can understand how you would think the negativity toward "Fallout 3" was kneejerk if you'd just arrived here. In truth it's the product of years of discussion and analysis, backed increasingly by first-hand and second-hand knowledge.
Okay, instead of kneejerk would you prefer really really slow but unavoidable drop kick?
The game came out less than a week ago, with no demo before that. I know there have been first-hand demonstrations for many NMA-ers, but a short period of time in front of a dev kit does not a reviewable experience make, especially when you're spending that time lamenting every single possible flaw and ignoring every strength.
The "years of discussion and analysis" and "first-hand and second-hand knowledge" have been a pressure cooker of determined hatred for Fallout 3. The majority of complaints I've seen, ever since it was announced that Bethsoft would develop Fallout 3, have been that it won't be Van Buren and that it won't be like Fallout or Fallout 2. Nearly every complaint has been picking apart any possible flaw in Fallout 3, whether it's throwing up an early screen shot and screaming how that's not the real Wasteland, or that it won't have an overhead view.
You've been focusing on everything that could possibly go wrong with Fallout 3 in any way, preparing yourself for years at how "Oblivion with guns" will be worse than Brotherhood of Steel, how it'll be nothing like Fallout in tone, how Bethsoft will completely screw it up. Now the game's been out for less than a week and you're bringing those "years of discussion and analysis" to the table when you actually play it. So how are most of the people here playing the game? Angrily, trying to pick out every slight flaw while ignoring every potential for actually enjoying the game.
It's fine to point out everything wrong with a game. I certainly admit it. But when you're picking out everything wrong while at the same time refusing to enjoy the game for what it is, you're doing a disservice to yourself.
It started with "it won't be overhead" and "it won't be Van Buren," and it's become "Bethsoft has ignored everything about the Fallout universe" and "V.A.T.S. sucks."
In another thread, a poster noted:
-fps combat in real time is broken. plain and simple.
-v.a.t.s. == cheating
Try to understand those two objections. 1: Real-time FPS doesn't work. Fair enough, it's not meant to. THEN, 2: VATS is cheating. One part of combat's too hard, one part of combat is too easy. But together it works really well and is about as close to turn-based as you're going to find in a first-person RPG (and is leaps and bounds better than the TES combat system). VATS is "taking your turn," interspersed with acting defensively while your opponents "take their turns." Instead of taking the game like that, I'm seeing complaints about two individual factors of combat even though, when combined, they work really well. That sort of approach is what I'm talking about, a kneejerk objection to everything that might possibly be wrong in Fallout 3, while ignoring anything that might be the least bit fun and rewarding.