Fallout 3. Is it really so bad?

[Sander]

As playerbases evolve and change, so does game design so it can cater to the largest potential base of buyers.

As game technologies evolve and change, so will game design so it can cater to the largest potential base of buyers.

Er, yes, obviously everyone tries to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Which leads to a million games all competing for the same market segment, with lucrative niche segments being completely neglected.

As for the turnbased/iso purists - sorry guys, times change and you either keep up or get left behind. That's just the reality of the games market. I would play the hell out of a well done 3rd person iso/TB Fallout 3 - but it wouldn't do anywhere near as well on the market as the current incarnation has. Poor sales generally mean the death of a franchise - so take some solace in the fact that Fallout 3 is looking like the heavyweight of the year.

Obviously the fact that it sells well makes it a more enjoyable game, I mean really. And the fact that the franchise continues is obviously worth it even though the franchise looks nothing like the original games, right?

Also, first-person view and real-time combat, and even FPS RPGs existed well before Fallout 1 did it. There's nothing new there.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Also, first-person view and real-time combat, and even FPS RPGs existed well before Fallout 1 did it. There's nothing new there.

Yup, I remember they made those for DOS. Wasn't one of the Ultima games first-person?

 

[asuhdds]

You're misconstruing what he's saying.

Look at Planescape: Torment. A great game, incredible dialogue, but is there a Planescape 2? For that matter will another planescape sequel ever come to fruition?

I am grateful that I can play again in the Fallout universe. Fallout 3 isn't really that bad, it actually reminds me of System Shock, in terms of gameplay.

Just keep playing Fallout 1 or 2 then, if Fallout 3 is a torturous experience for you. I'm sure nobody here played any of the Fallout spinoffs, like Brotherhood of Steel, so just give Fallout 3 the same treatment if it's clearly that intolerable.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

You're misconstruing what he's saying.

Look at Planescape: Torment. A great game, incredible dialogue, but is there a Planescape 2? For that matter will another planescape sequel ever come to fruition?

I am grateful that I can play again in the Fallout universe. Fallout 3 isn't really that bad, it actually reminds me of System Shock, in terms of gameplay.

Just keep playing Fallout 1 or 2 then, if Fallout 3 is a torturous experience for you. I'm sure nobody here played any of the Fallout spinoffs, like Brotherhood of Steel, so just give Fallout 3 the same treatment if it's clearly that intolerable.

I played Tactics. A reasonable game, but not my cup of tea. I've had friends who live it though.

"Will another planescape sequel ever come to fruition?" Well, for one thing the original D&D settings are not that popular anymore, Planescape even less than Forgotten Realms. But the answer is most likely no, not the least because it's easier to make a game in a new universe rather than purchasing an old license. Also, sadly, not many companies would spend as much time and money coding complex, real-life feel dialogue trees, but rather concentrate on graphics and marketing. Doesn't mean that nobody makes those kinds of games anymore. Also, not every old RPG was a gem either, 90% were wash.

 

[Sander]

Yup, I remember they made those for DOS. Wasn't one of the Ultima games first-person?

There was an Ultima spin-off series that was first-person called Ultima Underworld.

You're misconstruing what he's saying.

Look at Planescape: Torment. A great game, incredible dialogue, but is there a Planescape 2? For that matter will another planescape sequel ever come to fruition?

I am grateful that I can play again in the Fallout universe. Fallout 3 isn't really that bad, it actually reminds me of System Shock, in terms of gameplay.

Just keep playing Fallout 1 or 2 then, if Fallout 3 is a torturous experience for you. I'm sure nobody here played any of the Fallout spinoffs, like Brotherhood of Steel, so just give Fallout 3 the same treatment if it's clearly that intolerable.

No, you missed my point. Fallout 3 now changes the franchise from what it was to something new, meaning that effectively Fallout 1 and 2 will never have a real sequel.

 

[UniversalWolf]

Re: Shared failings: rose-colored glasses and the FO/TES gam

I'd say it's more like 'the optimists left so they wouldn't have to compete with the militant pessimists.'

I've watched people who were optimists two years ago turn into pessimists, and they're still here. If optimists have left it's because they've failed to persuade the majority, and eventually give up. Still, there are pro-F3 posters who have been around a long time who are still here.

Alot of the hate is irrational.

Calling it irrational hate is a cheap way of discounting it without having to do the hard work of supporting your position. The posters who don't like "Fallout 3" tend to back up their arguments pretty solidly, again in stark contrast to some of the people who show up and within five minutes start decrying all the "hate."

 

[CStalin]

The people that keep posting that turn-based game play is dead do realize that Fallout was put out at a time when every media said RPGs were antiquidated and dead. Fallout was purposely made to play on the strengths of pen and paper RPGs. It used the GURPS engine originally. The developers on many occasions pointed out the fact that they wanted it to be turned based purposely. Its your opinion that turned based is dead. Your also in the minority on this board.

 

[M-26-7]

Poor sales generally mean the death of a franchise - so take some solace in the fact that Fallout 3 is looking like the heavyweight of the year.

We haven't seen any NPD data yet so it's all really speculation, but in a month filled with highly antecipated releases it's seeming like Fallout 3 has been someone overshadowed. FPS fans get Gears 2 Friday (yeah, yeah ThPS, same difference) and RPG fans got Fable 2 last week. I think in the end Fallout 3's small fanbase is what got it. Not by its kvetching, but by the mere fact it was small. Fable 2 will be a huge succes because it's fanbase came built in. Fallout 3 needs to build up a fan base.

 

[metalboss44]

I wasn't a fan of a big fan of turn based games until I played Fallout 1 + 2 and saw how well it worked there.

 

[HoKa]

The nukes at the end of Fallout 1/2 are darkly ironic since they save humanity by the means of which it was originally destroyed.

Was this on purpose? A friend accused of over-analyzing when I brought this up about a year ago, and I always kept wondering.

 

[zioburosky13]

The nukes at the end of Fallout 1/2 are darkly ironic since they save humanity by the means of which it was originally destroyed.

Was this on purpose? A friend accused of over-analyzing when I brought this up about a year ago, and I always kept wondering.

Atomic power has been overshadowed and brought mush mass hysteria to the society when it was introduced. As a weapon it's very dangerous for such a small device. On the other hand, it's also a solution to solve energy crisis and perhaps the only reliable source to rebuilt civilizationin the game (or real world ). Clear example is Gecko in Fallout 2 which still has a functional atomic power plant running.

In the beginning story of Fallout, nukes were used during the war for resources between China and U.S.which ignited the great war and almost brought the end of human species. At the end of Fallout and Fallout 2 however, it was used as a method to end a crisis which could again destroy the remaining human civilazation.

 

[tattooed_pariah]

a rant by any other name....

It seems every group I'm involved in hits this "purist" flamewar...

I glanced through this thread and felt it was the best place to put my $0.02 in:

I'm a FO1/2 person myself. I loved those games for their simplicity. They didn't need state of the art graphics to keep me entertained, because what they lacked in 3dfx and whatnot, they excelled in wit and FUN. I was/am a huge fan of the stupid pop culture references. It was fun and funny to me to come across a scene from Monty Python, or Star Trek or something new like the Cafe of Broken Dreams. That's why I played the first two so often, wasn't to beat it numerous times, but to discover all the easter eggs..

I also liked the hex grid, turn based combat. and yes, I'm a cheater. and some of you probably think I waste my time playnig games because I don't play them for the challenge so much as I do for the story line. So I used the character editors to max everything out and basically be a god walking around killing whoever for whatever reason and talking to NPCs.

I preordered FO3 but have been deployed and won't be able to play it for another couple of weeks, but just by reading reviews and this forum, I have prepared myself for MASSIVE dissapointment.

A friend who was sent home early told me it's an awesome game and he loves it, but this is his first FO experience, so I am trying to tell myself to treat it as a nameless game with no history to see if I can enjoy it that way.

I was apalled when I found out Bethesda bought the rights because I've always hated massively immersive RPG's like Elder Scrolls, I prefer my RPGs to play in the fashion of ChronoTrigger, simple and fun.

Another thing that made interplay great, and probably part of why they went under, was that they didn't seem to care as much about revenue. Their motto said it all "For Gamers. By Gamers." they made games they would enjoy and as a by-product a lot of the public enjoyed them as well.

I think Yahtzee from the Zero Punctuation said it best while reviewing a game a long time ago, (paraphrased) "It's like a random stranger walked into my house thinly disguised as my best friend and you aren't sure if they are leaving soon or plan to disembowel you."

Like I said, I haven't played yet, and maybe I'll love it, but I have a sinking feeling that I'm going to severly regret giving Bethesda money for this. I think I'm going to wind up traeting the Fallout franchise like I'm treating Indiana Jones, FO only has 3 in the series (1, 2 and tactics) just like Indiana Jones only has 3. The last in both seem to be crappy attempts at making a buck on an established fan base.

/climbs down from soapbox.

 

[Gooscar]

Honestly, liking Fallout 3 really depends on how much thematic (not canon or core feeling) deviance from the first two Fallout games you can accept, and whether or not the gameplay caters to your preffered style of gameplay.

If you can accept Fallout 3 is not a continuation of Fallout 1 and 2's storyline, enjoy the aspect of MMO/Oblivion-esque exploration, and can stomach the alteration and simplification of RPGs made with consoles in mind, then Fallout 3 is a fun game.

Good luck with your deployment in anycase, I remember being in the sandbox waiting for "The Punisher" to be released, because face-stabbing people with knives is fun.

 

[marko2te]

In my opinion F3 suffers from Oblivion effect, in the start its a interesting game but the more you play the more repetitive it becomes. As many have already said it before me if you are a Fallout fan you will dislike it and love it if you are a Oblivion fan, although the game is better than Oblivion.

 

[jyriaado]

Hello Fallout community,

I would also like to give my comments on the topic. I have been following the Fallout 3 saga closely and I do think myself as a fallout fan. Of course I have played Fallout 2 and 1 several times through.

I was a bit sceptical as many of you of how the Fallout 3 really turns out. I have now like 24-30 hrs in a game and am absolutely astonished of the gameplay and design.

**SPOILERS***

Even if you really cannot compare the design with FO 1/2 in my mind 3G environments add new possibilities that are used to the fullest. Although I do not play many FPS games any more and cannot comment on the graphics/animations side I say that there is much RPG and I see the best features from many great RPGs are used in the mix (like the contracts on your head from Baldurs Gate, Radio announcing your actions from Max Payne, lots of Deus Ex elements, lots from FO1/2 and Oblivion of course, etc)

I say that the demo that was used for previews totally created a bad image for the game - can anybody think of a more insane thing to do in a demo than blowing up a city in this setting and or having a city around undetonated bomb. However when you get into the game it really starts to make some sense, the atmosphere is like nobody gives a *** does one die or not, its just wastelend life, you live by one day at a time. I didn't get the same atmosphere in FO 1/2, maybe because I was younger dunno.

I really cant wait to return from work to get into the game again. It really reminds me the times when BG I came out where I just didnt leave the computer much during one week (I was studying back then and had a bit more spare time).

J.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

If you can accept Fallout 3 is not a continuation of Fallout 1 and 2's storyline, enjoy the aspect of MMO/Oblivion-esque exploration, and can stomach the alteration and simplification of RPGs made with consoles in mind, then Fallout 3 is a fun game.

sooo basically if I don't like fallout / have recently suffered cranial damage I have a good chance of liking this game?

 

[Public]

If you can accept Fallout 3 is not a continuation of Fallout 1 and 2's storyline, enjoy the aspect of MMO/Oblivion-esque exploration, and can stomach the alteration and simplification of RPGs made with consoles in mind, then Fallout 3 is a fun game.

sooo basically if I don't like fallout / have recently suffered cranial damage I have a good chance of liking this game?

So this game shouldn't be called Fallout at all.

 

[Confalone]

No, you missed my point. Fallout 3 now changes the franchise from what it was to something new, meaning that effectively Fallout 1 and 2 will never have a real sequel.

I don't know about that, there's nothing wrong with change if you ask me. I love fo1 and 2 to death but I'm also having a blast with fo3, I think it's wonderful. If that makes me a filthy whore then so be it, I'm OK with that.

 

[Gooscar]

If you can accept Fallout 3 is not a continuation of Fallout 1 and 2's storyline, enjoy the aspect of MMO/Oblivion-esque exploration, and can stomach the alteration and simplification of RPGs made with consoles in mind, then Fallout 3 is a fun game.

sooo basically if I don't like fallout / have recently suffered cranial damage I have a good chance of liking this game?

So this game shouldn't be called Fallout at all.

Considering I love Fallout 1 and 2, like Tactics, hate BOS, have only played Oblivion for maybe 4 days total and didn't like it, got bored of Morrowind (don't like TES in general actually), and don't suffer from brain damage, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion, unless I'm a fringe on the bell curve.

And I think it earns both the name Fallout and the number 3. I prepped for this game by playing Fallout 1/2/Tactics so I could judge it as a Fallout game. The mechanics are different and the story's displaced from anything detailed in the prior games, but it is in the same intellectual property universe both in narrative and characterization. It's a progression of the Fallout universe, not the first two games, and I don't mind that, in fact I enjoy it.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

my reply may have had a sarcastic edge, but my reason and meaning are sound, you asked if the fact that

A: it didn't follow on from Fallout 1/2
B: enjoy MMO / Oblivion.
C: stomach the dumbing down of RPG's

to answer;

A: I want FO:3 to kinda follow FO:2 or 1, makes more sense to me just in simple logic terms, 1 2 then 3...
B: I'm not a big fan of those style game, but I do enjoy the turn based goodness of FO:1-2-T
C: why should I suffer ANY amount of dumbing down, I enjoyed the interaction that Fallout offered me on a level higher than 'my mouse and and the WASD keys'