Fallout 3 is The Force Awakens

[Prone Squanderer]

Except, he's the guy in charge when he removes President Eden from power. You never fight the genocidal faction, they're allied with you.

The whole faction is the "genocidal faction". It's ultimately Colonel Autumn who gives the orders that have troops going over the wasteland killing people for no reason, such as the Enclave outpost with a container full of corpses.

EDIT: Yeah I just realized that. Autumn has issue with FEV, but no problem with luring wastelanders to their pointless deaths.

 

[CT Phipps]

The whole faction is the "genocidal faction". It's ultimately Colonel Autumn who gives the orders that have troops going over the wasteland killing people for no reason, such as the Enclave outpost with a container full of corpses.

That's not genocide. That's conquest. There's actually a random encounter you can have where the Enclave has set up a check point and they ONLY exterminate ghouls.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_Enclave_outposts_and_camps

Mission Directive: Establish and enforce Enclave presence among general populace, disposal of genetic non-compliance offenders.

I. Establish constituency enforcement points at coordinates 39.148 x -77.070. Monitor civilian movement in area, and debrief superior regarding any events of notable significance or regularity

II. Distribute purified water rations to civilians willing to sub,it to genetic compliance screening. Participation is compulsory for all civilians, and use of force is authorized in enforcement.

III. Genetic non-compliance offenders should be detained at checkpoint.

IV. To conserve consumption of Enclave resources, detainees should be disposed of by flame only when withholding facility becomes overcrowded, or detainees become unmanageable, whichever comes first.

 

[Prone Squanderer]

That's not genocide. That's conquest. There's actually a random encounter you can have where the Enclave has set up a check point and they ONLY exterminate ghouls.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_Enclave_outposts_and_camps

What do you think "Genetic non-compliance" leads to? The Enclave's not going to keep them detained forever, at best they'll use some for slave labour then kill them.

The Enclave isn't trying to rebuild America, if they were they wouldn't bother with detaining "Genetic non-compliance offenders". In fact if the Enclave managed to distribute clean water to people, provide security and actually rebuild something they would become very powerful.

But no, let's have silly propaganda posters everywhere to convince the CW we're the good guys only to kidnap people and barbeque others when we have no room for more.

EDIT: It's not just ghouls they kill.

 

[CT Phipps]

What do you think "Genetic non-compliance" leads to? The Enclave's not going to keep them detained forever, at best they'll use some for slave labour then kill them.

The Enclave isn't trying to rebuild America, if they were they wouldn't bother with detaining "Genetic non-compliance offenders". In fact if the Enclave managed to distribute clean water to people, provide security and actually rebuild something they would become very powerful.

But no, let's have silly propaganda posters everywhere to convince the CW we're the good guys only to kidnap people and barbeque others when we have no room for more.

EDIT: It's not just ghouls they kill.

What? You think mutants are people? What are you some sort of Magneto supporter?

President Richardson's plan may have been drastic but you can't tell me people are going to be able to rebuild as long as mutants are real. Thankfully, we'll eventually get rid of that wretched pit called NCR and restore the true humanity to its purpose.

WITH BASEBALL and HOOKERS!

 

[Prone Squanderer]

What? You think mutants are people? What are you some sort of Magneto supporter?

President Richardson's plan may have been drastic but you can't tell me people are going to be able to rebuild as long as mutants are real. Thankfully, we'll eventually get rid of that wretched pit called NCR and restore the true humanity to its purpose.

WITH BASEBALL and HOOKERS!

If Autumn though the "people are worth fighting for" he wouldn't have outposts detaining and burning people alive purely because of their "genetic non-compliance". So in my eyes the Enclave in Fallout 3 are no different goal wise.

 

[naossano]

About Fo2, not saying they are the best faction of the franchise.

As a few bullets points.MMore and we would need a separate thread.

- They are more than a faction, but a proper nation, with civilians, their set of laws, history and and ethnic different than the mainland. There are definitely a lot of thing to learn about them in fo2. And you can't blame the whole nation for some decisions of the leadership. Most of them were born within the enclave and deserve sympathy, just like the legion kids.

- They aren't racist the slightest from their perspective. They consider the mainlanders as mutants and consider mutants as not humans and as treats for humanity. They purpose or so their propaganda tells use is to save humanity, which they consider as a noble goal. Some might be more self-serving and might want the land for themselve. But most of the population believe in this and might even see their interactions with mainlanders as proofs of this. most are savage that prefer lazer guns over medecine. Also, their version of humanity is only slightly narrower than all those wastelanders that believe that ghouls and super-mutants aren't humans either.

- Thematically, they act as a mirror to the unity. While the master want everyone to forcefully accept the change of humanity and embrace the mutation, the enclave want to remove the change of humanity and destroy the mutation. The master want to stop all war for ever happening while the enclave is the remnant of one of the two governments responsible for the war and were threatening to inflict that madness into the world again. Also, both need vault dwellers for their plan to succeed, which put them at odds with vault 13. Also, both protagonists are the polar opposite. The vault dweller represent the preserved past vs the change of the master. The chosen one is part of the humanity born in the wasteland vs the organization of the preserved past. Both conflicts mirrors each other in many other way.

Not arguing that the enclave in fallout 2 could have been better and is miles behind the master, but still way ahead many other main antagonists of the series, save for new vegas. They have more layers than being just antagonists, they have goals that make sense from their perspective, they they have thematic relevance in the game they appear in and compared with the previous one. They have cartoonish moments, but that is not their main traits.

 

[Veers]

Except, he's the guy in charge when he removes President Eden from power. You never fight the genocidal faction, they're allied with you.

Colonel Autumn's rebellion against Eden is possibly the laziest cop out in Bethesda's recent history.

"Alright, so the story's a long ways so far, but it's looking pretty linear. The player has no choice but to help the Brotherhood no matter what. How do we fix this?"

"Oh, I know Mr. Howard. Maybe let the player help President Eden if they choose to?"

"That's good! What do we have to do to make it happen?"

"Well, we'd need a new end quest line that really shakes things up. An entire new set of scripted events and occurrences that puts the player on the Enclave's side. They'd need to help fight off waves of Brotherhood attackers on the Water Purifier, and as an added bonus, they could even have a boss fight with Liberty Prime. The Broken Steel DLC might begin with a Brotherhood agent forcibly activating the Purifier while the player's nearby, and the player seemingly dies while the Brotherhood come and steal the FEV sample Eden gave them, but the Enclave uses the same anti-rad drugs they used on Autumn to keep him alive and bring him back. Broken Steel would involve raiding Brotherhood outposts, taking GNR for the Enclave and overtaking its broadcast, allying with or killing the Outcasts for good, then launching a final assault on the Pentagon itself, Vertibirds flying all around, Brotherhood and Enclave soldiers in desperate struggle, and the player, of course, having to destroy Liberty Prime, maybe by taking a Vertibird to the Mobile Platform which has been overtaken by Brotherhood troops, fighting through them and setting the cannon there's target on Prime himself. It would end with with the player regaining the FEV sample and being left with a decision, as Colonel Autumn urges them not to follow through with Eden's plan and to instead join his own splintering faction of the Enclave, while Eden insists his plan will truly revive the wasteland and let life there begin again. This is the moral choice on the player's part - Eden or Autumn? Either way they congratulate you as a patriot. If you side with Autumn, Enclave troops utilize his self-destruct and Autumn becomes the new acting leader of the United States Government. If you side with Eden you get a mini quest where you track down Autumn and his loyalists and kill them. A fitting end and plenty of player choice agency given!"

"Nice, nice, how much work and planning would that take to implement?"

"A lot."

"Dammit Mark, we're Bethesda developers, you know we can't do anything that requires work or thought! Scrap the whole thing! Just have the player fight the Enclave and help the Brotherhood no matter what they do."

 

[CT Phipps]

If Autumn though the "people are worth fighting for" he wouldn't have outposts detaining and burning people alive purely because of their "genetic non-compliance". So in my eyes the Enclave in Fallout 3 are no different goal wise.

Well, clearly he thinks SOME people are worth saving. So he's much more liberal than Richardson and Eden.

Of course, I think the Enclave is the best villain group in Fallout.