Fallout 3 is The Force Awakens

SarcasticGoodGuy said:
So you did get scammed, and you did have to pay money to fix a product you had already bought.
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Actually, I'd draw a distinction between Broken Steel and, say, shaving content away from video games for more money which we know happens all the time. Fallout 3's ending was the "original" ending they had planned but it was ridiculously unpopular because it was bullshit. So Bethesda, instead, sold fans a new ending which was more popular.

I don't mind paying for that.

This is a contrast to, say, Javik who was supposed to be in Mass Effect 3, but they snipped him away to charge more or the bullshit that is virtually the entirety of Deus Ex: Mankind Divide's DLC.
 
CT Phipps said:
I don't mind paying for that.

This is a contrast to, say, Javik who was supposed to be in Mass Effect 3, but they snipped him away to charge more or the bullshit that is virtually the entirety of Deus Ex: Mankind Divide's DLC.
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Ok since you're bringing up different DLC it just shows that your point is "well these DLC were worse".

Mass Effect 3 did the Extended Cut right in that it was completely free for everyone. They attempted to fix a part of their game which was not well received. While some still felt that it was a poor conclusion many were satisfied. Bioware put in some effort for the fans of their franchise who were displeased. Bethesda on the other hand charged for it. You should mind paying for something that other developers do for free, and if you say that Bethesda did it 'better', I'll just remind you what the word 'opinion' means.
 
Well, I'm saying the intent of Fallout 3 was, "It was meant to be good"

It just wasn't.

Are we not willing to pay for better content and improvements? Because, Broken Steel was a great campaign which also fixed the ending. I got my money's worth and it wasn't "just" a fix but a fix included with the material.
 
CT Phipps said:
I don't mind paying for that.
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This reminded me of the paid mods fiasco. The problem that first came to mind about that system is what would happen to bugfix mods. You would be essentially paying Bethesda to have someone other than Bethesda fix their game. You would be rewarding Bethesda for having a buggy game. It is also unfair to not allow monetization for bugfix mods while allowing monetization for things like skins. Bethesda could pay them but how willing is Bethesda to admit the flaws of their games? Bethesda already has a very weak incentive to release a properly working game.

CT Phipps said:
Well, I'm saying the intent of Fallout 3 was, "It was meant to be good"

It just wasn't.

Are we not willing to pay for better content and improvements?
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The brakes for my new car doesn't work. Should I be willing to pay the car dealer to fix the car that was suppose to work? The answer is no.

CT Phipps said:
Because, Broken Steel was a great campaign which also fixed the ending. I got my money's worth and it wasn't "just" a fix but a fix included with the material.
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I wouldn't say that it fixed the ending so no.
 
Sacrifice is a great theme but it has to be earned. You can't force a player into it, IMHO. But if you felt the ending was good, good for you.
 
CT Phipps said:
But if you felt the ending was good, good for you.
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No one here is arguing with you on whether the original ending was bad. Most people here think that it is bad. However, the story lead up to that ending because it was following the theme of sacrifice which was the theme of the story. Most people here don't like the story in general and the DLC didn't fix its fundamental problem.
 
CaptJ said:
No one here is arguing with you on whether the original ending was bad. Most people here think that it is bad. However, the story lead up to that ending because it was following the theme of sacrifice which was the theme of the story. Most people here don't like the story in general and the DLC didn't fix its fundamental problem.
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You give a compelling argument that I cannot discount. Thank you for taking the time to explain your opinion. I accept now that sacrifice was a theme of Fallout 3 from the beginning unto end.
 
CT Phipps said:
Actually, I'd draw a distinction between Broken Steel and, say, shaving content away from video games for more money which we know happens all the time. Fallout 3's ending was the "original" ending they had planned but it was ridiculously unpopular because it was bullshit. So Bethesda, instead, sold fans a new ending which was more popular.

I don't mind paying for that.

This is a contrast to, say, Javik who was supposed to be in Mass Effect 3, but they snipped him away to charge more or the bullshit that is virtually the entirety of Deus Ex: Mankind Divide's DLC.
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I didn't do a full play through of Fallout 3 until the GOTY edition was release and it honestly felt like they held the last proper third of that game hostage for DLC. Nothing about original ending felt like the games natural conclusion even for a game as retarded as Fallout 3.
 
CT Phipps said:
You give a compelling argument that I cannot discount. Thank you for taking the time to explain your opinion. I accept now that sacrifice was a theme of Fallout 3 from the beginning unto end.
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Having a third option unlocked with money doesn't evolve the theme from sacrifice to moving forward. Fawkes saying that you changed your destiny feels like it addresses the player not the Lone Wanderer. The only thing that you did different to change your destiny was paying more money. Fawkes didn't learn something new to change his mind; you, the player, bribed him to save your character's life. Having your character's story arc end with him throwing his life away but be miraculous saved doesn't fix the story. It is like how making Hamlet not be fuck up doesn't fix the story or giving Romeo and Juliet a happy ending turns it to a story of how love conquers all. At least, Little Mermaid had its entire story rewritten to give Ariel a happy ending.
 
Walpknut said:
So apparently the pure water immediately fixed the fact that there are only 2 settlements in the region and that the place is infested with Super Mutants, Mercenaries and Raiders?
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I guess you could consider it only settlment being rivet city. Because thats the only settlment actual close to the river/lake whatever. Or you could kinda see it that it would benefit all the settlements as water is being handed out however places like megaton actually had water any way although that could break down. I mean technically it would be very helpful to settlements as drinking clean water would help people live longer meaning can work more etc. However your right thats still tons of raiders and super mutants to deal with and water does't just fix that.

The only settlements that having clean lake water would benefit would be rivet city, Gray ditch (If it as't destroyed) and possibly underworld. The rest of the other settlements are too far out of the way to directly benefit from it. Also rivet city really does have other problem like getting rusty and run down
 
CT Phipps said:
I haven't encountered them and I think it kind of messes with the fact the BoS are moving on to new conquests.
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I think it's the Brotherhood soldiers themselves that say it, and maybe MacCready but I honestly can't remember.

CT Phipps said:
No, they're dying in the water even if you just leave it clean. The Mirelurks need radiation to survive.
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This seems to be the case according to the Mirelurk entry on the Fallout wiki. Strange how no other mutants are affected though.

CT Phipps said:
All of Ashur's army is composed of Raiders. They are stated to supply the Pitt with Food and supplies. That's actually a pretty big explanation for why the Raiders are doing what they're doing. Ashur can't trade for the vital supplies so he has his people murder for them.
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CT Phipps said:
I'm also not putting down Ashur whatsoever. He's a visionary who wants to rebuild the Pitt around the Steel Mill but he's not just engaged in slaving but also raiding to keep his vision going.

Here's proof if you need it. I find my arguments always go over better if backed up by videos.



5:25

It explains Ashur is behind (some of) the Raiders in the Capital Wasteland. There's some other bits I can look up but basically amount to saying the Raiders eat the food they steal while the slaves eat Trog Chili. They do, however, Raid and raid extensively for supplies to keep the Pitt going.
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Phantom mentions a caravan, at no point does he say in the Capital Wasteland. Unless you argue a group of them stay behind in the CW to pass on supplies, but how would they transport enough supplies back to the Pitt on that tiny hand cart?

Completely unrelated to the whole caravan business, but does anyone else hate the voices for the raiders? It's like they're trying too hard to be bad guys. "We're evil, can you tell? Ha ha ha!"

CT Phipps said:
And there's no reason for Deacon to lie about that.
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There's every reason for him to lie. Hell his entire backstory could be bullshit, his word means nothing.
 
Crni Vuk said:
And the fact that the purifier is located at the end of the river ...
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I assumed it was a vaporizer but, yes, it could well just be bad design.

I guess you could consider it only settlment being rivet city. Because thats the only settlment actual close to the river/lake whatever. Or you could kinda see it that it would benefit all the settlements as water is being handed out however places like megaton actually had water any way although that could break down. I mean technically it would be very helpful to settlements as drinking clean water would help people live longer meaning can work more etc. However your right thats still tons of raiders and super mutants to deal with and water does't just fix that.

The only settlements that having clean lake water would benefit would be rivet city, Gray ditch (If it as't destroyed) and possibly underworld. The rest of the other settlements are too far out of the way to directly benefit from it. Also rivet city really does have other problem like getting rusty and run down
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Yeah, I think Megaton's purifier is on its last legs. However, one of the big benefits of the Purifier will be the fact the population can resettle Washington D.C. With a clean source of drinking and irrigation water plus all the shelter there, they could make Washington D.C. a city again.

CaptJ said:
Having a third option unlocked with money doesn't evolve the theme from sacrifice to moving forward. Fawkes saying that you changed your destiny feels like it addresses the player not the Lone Wanderer. The only thing that you did different to change your destiny was paying more money. Fawkes didn't learn something new to change his mind; you, the player, bribed him to save your character's life. Having your character's story arc end with him throwing his life away but be miraculous saved doesn't fix the story. It is like how making Hamlet not be fuck up doesn't fix the story or giving Romeo and Juliet a happy ending turns it to a story of how love conquers all. At least, Little Mermaid had its entire story rewritten to give Ariel a happy ending.
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For me, it was more like Superman vs. Batman with the fact no one realized that Wonder Woman could hold the Kryptonite spear to kill Doomsday. In any case, you'll never convince me Broken Steel didn't improve the storyline on an emotional level as I don't think the game earned the idea you need to stupidly kill the protagonist.

Thank you for your time devoted to this.
 
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Crni Vuk said:
What's a water vaporizer?
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steam-cleaner.gif


And why would that make sense here?
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Suppose he means "it would rain" or that they're going to distill and bottle the whole river. By Beth standards both would've probably been valid explanations lauded for creativity.
 
Prone Squanderer said:
Wouldn't it have been better to use the G.E.C.K as it was intended instead?
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GECK - fixes a region of space.

Purifier - fixes entire Capital Wasteland.

At least that's what I think is going. James seemed to be a pretty smart guy and presumably is making it a much bigger deal.
 
The final act for fo3 broken steel was way more epic and satisfying as an action sequence. More baddies to fight, new elit troop, well designed levels, and big explosions, but in terms of dramatic value,it was a bit meaningless. The reason for the plot existence was already resolved with the vanilla game. You were there to find your father and find out why he left,, then you fought for his legacy once he died. In broken hills, you only kick some asses.

It is like Frodo and Sam throwing the ring at the end of episode three, and having a fourth episode just for the army of light going at the mordor to destroy the remains of sauron army. It might be satisfying to kick some asses, but the plot was already over when the ring was destroyed and sauron permanently defeated.
 
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