Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
CTT Phipps, you are just making shit up at this point.
This ghoul has seen it all
If only the game would have actually tried to explain it more and better what your deranged father ACTUALLY wanted to do ...
Veers
First time out of the vault
What I especially didn't like, and probably my main criticism of 3, is that is really simplified, condensed, and boiled down all sides and previous factions into nothingness. The Enclave isn't a political holdout of the United States wanting to rebuild it, they're evil cartoon villains. The Brotherhood isn't a technocratic order of folks wanting to preserve and protect technology at the possible expense of others, they're white knights in power armor. The Super Mutants aren't a force of mutated humans who struggle to find their place in a wasteland that doesn't want them, they're Orcs who want to kill everything. The three major powers in D.C. are not just ripped straight from 1 and 2, but they're so heavily streamlined and simplified versions that make so little sense compared to their previous counterparts. I get that Bethesda wanted to play it safe, but there's a difference between playing things safe and cutting content apart because they think players will be too dumb to handle factional politics and think about differing ideologies. No. Instead, we're left with perfect and pristine Brotherhood, constantly evil and maniacal Enclave, and Super Mutant Orcs. The Brotherhood's end goal is to sacrifice all of its men and resources to help a wasteland out at no benefit to themselves. The Enclave's end goal is to sacrifice all of its men and resources to poison a wasteland at no benefit to themselves. They're not characters or factions in 3, they're caricatures of characters and factions, the most absolutely basic concept or summary of each prior faction in the mind of someone who's never played the prior games. They don't act like real people or real factions, they act like overblown and cartoonish caricatures of what real people and real factions are. If Bethesda aimed for satire or parody, that'd possibly be different, but the fact that we, as Fallout fans, are supposed to take everything so seriously, straight-faced, and at face-value is ridiculous.
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CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
The Brotherhood's White Knightness has to always be balanced by the fact the Outcasts exist. Also, the Enclave isn't cartoonish, they just don't want to ally with you.
a721402
Perhaps tomorrow will be better.
Excpet they are also never be a part of the main quest, which make their existence both wasted opportunity and meaningless.
"They just don't want to ally with you" is not a valid point in an argument about why they are cartoonish, they exists in fo3 mainly just for the sake of bethesda's laziness or/and lack of creative to make a new villain faction.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Enclave didn't want to allie with you in fo2 and they had way more depth.
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
On top of what @a721402 said, the fact that they exist and just being..... there, doesn't mean anything at all. On the contrary, the one who should've been called 'The Outcasts' were Elder Lyons and his followers. The Outcasts as they existed in Fallout 3 by being 'in your face!' was extremely stupid and so cartoonish, it's a fucking joke.
Imagine, we meet the Lyons and their goody two-shoes attitude, and then we meet 'The Outcasts', except they aren't called 'The Outcasts' and they accuse the Lyons as the real Outcasts for disobeying the Codex and....
Oh, well, at this point I really don't care at all.
That's not even a valid argument to deny the cartoonish-ness of Fallout 3's Enclave.
I think the only good info or background of the enclave was the when you find that the guy living in grayditch (Who died) was part of the enclave and a enclave supporter. His family where living in gray ditch and he was like a spy or still working for them. That to me was the only time the enclave where slightly relatable or had really any character or presence. The rest was just shooting some dudes who come down from vertibirds and shoot you for no dammed reasson at all !
To be fair, the Enclave was more or less just a cartoon-villain in F2 as well. What kinda made it better compared to F3 was simply the fact that F2 was the better role playing game. But when it comes ONLY to the Enclave ... they really didn't had that much more going in my opinion. Except Navarro, that was a cool location.
joevonzombie
Buried alive in Golgotha
The Capital Wasteland as depicted in Fallout 3 is not that large of an area. The GECK would have been better used for its intended purpose. Project Purity does not make sense on any level.
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Their introduction is cartoonish and over the top with Frank Horrigan, but there is much more to it,as you discover once you reach Navarro and the oil rig and get acquainted with the population, the officers, the politicians, the militaries, the scientists, the civilians etc....you aren't defeating a gang or an army of evil, but a secluded nation, whom leadership is misguided about the outside world at best.
Fo3 enclave has three characters with speaking lines, reached on very specific sequences, and two of them are nonsensical.
And Fo2 enclave makes so much more sense? In which way?
I admit, there is more interaction with the Enclave, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is less cartoonish than what you have in F3. Again, there are more memorable moments in F2, no doubts about it. But the Enclave really isn't a particularly well thought out Villain or even remotely as good like the Master and the Super Mutants.
I admit, there is more interaction with the Enclave, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is less cartoonish than what you have in F3. Again, there are more memorable moments in F2, no doubts about it. But the Enclave really isn't a particularly well thought out Villain or even remotely as good like the Master and the Super Mutants.
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
I thought that was kind of their point. They did not have much going on beyond being that scary "alien" force looming at the edge of sight, bunking at one corner of the continent with a toehold to the mainland and big plans only in the making. That the Chosen One happened to get entangled with them in the first place seemed more like a pure chance than something eventual like a "final showdown with the villain" (like the Master).
I do wish there would've been more possibilities in how to deal with them, but their role to me seemed decidedly more like a wild card than anything else.
Then we can not say that the Enclave in F2 was so much better compared to F3.
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Why not? The overall execution was better all around, subtle as it might've been. There was a certain intrigue and dread to them even with all the lackings.
*Shrugs* Like I said, the execution was better, but still a cartoonish-evil villain. And if that is the complain about F3, than the same can be said about F2. The fact that it was done 'better' doesn't mean it's not lacking as a Fallout villain. I would simply expect more from the makers of Fallout 1.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Uhm, you may want to reverse that. The former are Nazis who want to exterminate all but themselves but the Fallout 3 ones just want to restore the United States.
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
That's really all I was going for. Fallout 2's Enclave still managed to sing the blues. Undeniably a bit off tone at times and in low volume, but still. Fallout 3's was just screeching unrecognizable coversongs.
Prone Squanderer
A bit of a Sillius Soddus.
They aren't Nazis.
By exterminating all but themselves, Colonel Autumn being the exception.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
No, they're just militant racial supremacists who want to destroy all members of other groups which don't fit their banner of racial purity while also being descended from a corporate-military-political alliance.
Except, he's the guy in charge when he removes President Eden from power. You never fight the genocidal faction, they're allied with you.